Mattoon

I think that Mackem game was his nadir, if he was going to bow out, it was then. Thats when he offered to leave and its totally understandable to feel dejected, having bowed out of all the knock out competitions at that point and be flailing in the league to then lose against your local rivals for the second time in the season. But I think the level of support from above and in the stands rejuvenated him and a break this summer will help recharge his batteries. I get the comparisons and although I absolutely love KK, I do think Howe is built of stronger stuff, KK was quite mentally weak.

I don't reject what you're saying, but I watched a lot of games this season and it has been a crap season all round, even the likes of City, Liverpool and the holy grail that is Villa played some turgid stuff at times, but ground out some results that kept them up there, Bournemouth and Brighton were in with a chance of CL football right up to the last day. It doesn't take away from our poor season but we definitely weren't an outlier. I genuinely think we have a great chance to bounce back next season, it looks like we'll get a fair whack for some of our want-away players and the rebuild will pay for itself, it's down to Wilson now to give Howe something to work with and I'm genuinely excited to see how it pans out.

When you look at it that way it hasn't been the disaster everyone feels it has, just a few moments in a few games and the landscape looks very different. The spine of the team needs fixing first and foremost, a new keeper, a couple of players through the middle of the team and some better options up front. It doesn't even need to be wholesale changes, just fresh faces, fresh legs and new ideas tp shake the team up.

The revisionism in here gets worse with every passing day, so now Howe is not responsible for saving us from relegation? Give me strength. Not to mention the same old tired clichés about Howe players ruining our summer, go back and look at who we targeted initially, the only error was lack of mitigation when we got down to our 3rd, 4th and 5th choices in an unfamiliar role. Anyone that doesnt see that there have been far more deep seated issues for a good year than the manager himself is being willfully ignorant because they've hoyed their toys out of the pram after a miserable season. As always, I will add the caveat that I don't think Howe has helped himself with some of his choices this season, but the whole reason he is getting more time at the club is because those within it's 4 walls and privy to information you don't have, understand that Howe is only a very small part of what went wrong this season and was on a hiding to nowhere from the start. I'd suggest, for the sake of your own blood pressure and the dry walls in your house, that you accept the fact he's got another crack at the whip and put your pitch forks away until at least Christmas, you'll be much happier.

This has to be the worst performance of the season by a country mile, feels like no one wanted to be here today, no one cares. Its all quite damning really.

Give it a rest, he's going nowhere so get used to it, if we start poorly next season after a summer shake up you might get your wish.

What is the perfect day today looking like? Mackem loss (obviously) Liverpool loss Bournemouth win with a 6 goal swing on Liverpool Spurs loss West Ham win Us win

Man if these dossers get yewrup imagine all the horrifically pronounced songs they're gonna sing about us

Nee chance, it's not written in crayon and covered in alphabeti-spaghetti stains

Whatever happens it will be a schadenfreude afternoon, West Ham or Spurs, a PL mainstay is going down.

I think after the summer business, a full preseason and less games next season, we'll be right back up there amongst it. And dare I say, I think some of those teams may be a little worried that we come back stronger next season and will be looking over their shoulders, or hopefully looking up at us again next season. It has been a disaster, but what's done is done and there's no reason to believe it can't be undone next season for me.

So Pep has just confirmed hes definitely leaving and Man Utd have confirmed that Carrick is their new permanent manager.

Fwiw Brighton could also finish 6th so there's something Sky can get excited about on Sunday at least.

I thought the scenario was that 5th place was the coefficient place and if Villa finished there but already achieved CL through Europa then the extra place went to the next place down? I just checked and thats correct, of Villa finish 5th then 6th get CL and we lose the Europa place to another country.

Am I right in presuming that if City beat Villa and Liverpool beat Brentford then Bournemouth will get in the Champions League in 6th place?

Bang on this, the discussion seems to be about absolutes and not the intricacies of what went wrong, over-dramatisation and under-appreciation. So much went against us and at a time that no one was steering the ship, so many mitigations in a sea of mishaps and adversity. This summer, with the deck stacked more favourably, will be much better and will right a lot of wrongs and next season will put this season where it belongs, in the archives of lessons learned.

Wew

Not sure but thats some impressive decking...robust

Sounds like something someone running a secret forum might say...

Or, like @alexfsaid, they started at a higher base line and we've had to catch up by spending more, Villa still have a higher wage bill than us, which is about as accurate a needle for performance perception as you can get. There's fairly more nuance to how Villa did last season to how we did this season in the same competition.

Right now I'm taking it as made up by some MUFC fantasist based on Hall's comments about being disappointed in losing his place in the team to BDB. One of the few players I genuinely don't want to see leave, he's unbelievably good and an NUFC supporter at heart so I refuse to believe it. Tie him up to a new long term contract and give him a season he deserves in 26/27

You can always trust the same faces of NO to use another teams success as a yard stick to beat Eddie Howe with, so predictable and boring with zero nuance when talking about two completely different clubs with completely different players and completely different circumstance. Well done to Villa I'm really happy for them, but comparison is the theif of joy and I will continue to enjoy the trajectory we are on and looking forward to a busy summer and what promises to be a much better season next. I hope Villa continue to upset the cartel just in the same way I hope that we do too, but maybe not quite as much for them.

2-0 Villa

I didn't take you for an Arteta sycophant, yet here we are. I used to have a soft spot for Arsenal, they played football how it was supposed to be played under Wenger and had some great players through the years. Now, they have that lego headed monstrosity as a manager, some really detestable scummy cheating players and a bunch of fans that have encompassed those elements....blood, fam...etc... screw them, the lot of them.