Heron

Probably not, if any, in recent times. But arguably the greatest manager of all time turned round a sinking ship at Man United.

I'm not sure I've ever really seen anyone attribute the good signings made to Howe to be fair.

Fair - Batted an eyelid may be a stretch but the criticism wouldn't be anywhere near these levels.

Elanga had some of the most assists last season so it's not that stupid to have wanted him. We tried to sign Ekitke, Joao Pedro, Delap and Sesko before Woltemade and Wissa. Thiaw has proven to be a great addition and Ramsay is also looking fairly solid. We sold Isak late in the window after saying we wouldn't sell him.

I think you're both right.

Next season. But over 4 seasons... If he had have finished wherever we finish this season first (full) season in charge folk wouldn't have batted an eye lid by comparison. He's a victim of his own success. If you line up our seasons in a different order we'd have had staying up, wherever we finish this year, CL qualification and a cup final and CL qualification and a cup win. I get that's not how it's happened but there's been many mitigating factors. The more I see the criticisms of Howe the more inclined I am to back him to be honest, folk may consider that naive or stupid but I think it's seeing the full picture for what it is. Howe need infrastructure around him that stays and players that don't think they're bigger than the club. Then we'll be sound again imo. Training time over the summer and a good summer of transfer business will see us right as rain next season in my opinion. The transfer shit does my head in. We've signed many players who've all been successes and they're all forgotten about. Folk will then say they weren't Howe, but then say he isn't willing to work with a DoF. Its all becoming an absolute nonsense on that front. Folk say he cannot coach and he's literally made every one of those players better players prior to this season when he's had time on the training ground with them. With the exclusion of Trippier who was already outstanding and came for Eddie Howe. Where people are right, is that his formation isn't working and it's because the same intensity isn't being applied. He hasn't perhaps made subs at the right times. There are flaws, of course there are. But sick of reading the contradictory shite that's now being made in an attempt to strengthen an argument. A lot of the arguments are entirely flawed. Of all the people at the club Howe deserves the most backing for me. Not your players or senior leadership team who will seemingly fuck off at the drop of a hat. Nowt personal fella - just a rant in general (not at you).

Progression?

I think Howe has as much chance as anyone. How many managers would have achieved what he has at Newcastle too?

Howe is a better manager than Arteta every day of the week.

In the next four years, do we reckon a new manager gets us in the CL twice, two cup finals and wins us a cup?

Who are your three out of curiosity

So if my maths is right that's 57 played and 28 won which is just shy of 50% win rate in his time there and ultimately not on course to win the title as planned or anything for that matter.

It's because the way social media and the modern world now operates - everything has to be binary and not actually using some degree of conversation and consideration. It is possible to be Howe In and unhappy with some of his flaws or Howe Out and appreciative of his ability to at least coach individuals.

On Maresca, didn't he effectively fail at Chelsea with a war chest?

Because the midfield isn't protecting it the way it should and our forwards aren't doing enough at the other end. Gordon should have done better with his opportunity and other than our goal absolutely nothing was created. Howe needs to get that balance right and/or change tactics. That, I will concede. I'm not gonna go over the same things I've gone over a million times before. Howe should have had them at the races against S*nderland and today and they weren't. But you cannot blame Howe for Gordon fucking up that chance or Botman inexplicably dragging someone over last minute (today). I think there's division in the squad and that's been an underlying issue that's now resurfacing as agents and players and media speculate. I think there are many contributory factors to why we're now at why we're at. My stance remains the same as pre match regarding Howe.

Howe needs to find different tactical solutions and I feel now is the first time he has been given any chance to do so, but he deserves another pre-season (albeit interrupted by the world cup and doubtless endless speculation again). The transfer thing that everyone seems to hold on to is a tit-for-tat debate that we can all make our own speculation about. Personally, I think Howes hands were absolutely tied and last summer wasn't a result of Howe it was a result of mismanagement from the top down. One thing we can all agree on (I think!) Is that Howe has coached almost every single player in that squad to be better individual players and has got more than the sum the squads parts in his tenure until this season, which as stated above I perceive not to have been his fault. Then I don't think there is much to go at Howe about other than a reluctance to adjust his formation and strategy (occasionally).

I agree on your points but what I'm getting at regarding S*nderland is that prior to that game it was met with an attitude that it wasn't the be all end all like it would be for them. A "we are their everything" kind of attitude and now many are displaying the same attitudes that they'd criticise the mackems of. If that fixture wasn't the be all end all we wouldn't be coming out with the remarks we are as a fan base on social media in my opinion. It'd be just a frustrating loss to another mid table side as has been the case for the last couple of years. So we either accept that fixture means a great deal to us and stop making those claims or we continue those claims and not want whole-scale change when we absolutely fail in those ties as we have this season. We can all see and admit performances haven't been as good this year, results by and large haven't been, but to isolate Howe as the issue as others (not your good self) are is simply trying to find a quick solution rather than the right solution, in my opinion, of course.

Obvious statement I guess but I'm desperate for Eddie to prove the naysayers wrong. I am of the view folk are scapegoating him and looking for the perceived easiest solution rather than the right one and also of the view that little old S*nderland from down the road who we weren't bothered about have ruffled more feathers than we like to admit. We've always come out stronger being united in adversity and many same to fail to realise that. You don't become a bad manager overnight as many seem to suggest.

In Eddie I Trust.

It's a sad state of affairs really. If Isak had have stayed here he may have also had his leg bust, but we were building something really strong and it's not helped all parties that whole debacle. EDIT: Except for his agent.

Bout time someone recognised it.

Will share it in the group mate Thanks!

Ooh and chocolate eggs.

I reckon they beat Sporting and then get knocked out by Barca and they also go on to lose the title like. They have to hope Chelsea beat City and they beat Bournemouth cause if they don't then this could all come crumbling down pretty quick I reckon.

Is this the part where they throw the title?