Wallsendmag

He's starting to irritate me a bit now. Would like to think it's not the case but for a lot of this season it's looked as though he's hardly trying. A rough arsed centre half gives him a bit of a kick in the opening stages and he just seems to lose interest and the dummy comes out. Not sure he'll make it over here in all honesty which is a shame because when he arrived I really thought we'd signed a top prospect. If Benitez can't get any more out of him then I'm not sure who could.

It's my opinion, having been to every home game, and having seen 5 of the away games, that we seem to get more out of Shelvey when he's alongside Colback than when he plays with Hayden. It could be to do with the fact that as soon as Colback gets possession, he looks to give it straight to Shelvey whereas Hayden, who is more comfortable on the ball will look to do something himself but isn't as effective as Shelvey in picking out a pass. Because of this I'm pretty certain Shelvey sees a lot more of the ball when played next to Colback (certainly seems that way without having any stats to hand) and because he's our most creative player that is more beneficial to the team and we seem to create more chances. If we get back into the PL it's clearly a tactic that won't work as Shelvey will no longer be head and shoulders above his opponent but in this league I think it's a partnership that's worked well.

But, but.... Colback plays better with Shelvey. Based on f*** all, I will provide no examples of this or my reasoning. He just is. These stats are misleading Stick to American Football mate. You have a better understanding of that

Awful news to wake up to. RIP to all those who perished.

Dummett ain't no wing back.

Totally agree.

Mitrovic started as well. Maybe we should play him ahead of Gayle going by your logic? Shelvey ran the game with Hayden in the team, your "point" was that he is ineffective alongside Hayden compared to alongside Colback. It's bollocks basically, and reactionary bollocks based on a rare defeat. You're basing this on 1 match where the opposition were worse than dreadful and their manager lost his job not long after. Our results have been better this season with Colback/Shelvey than Hayden/Shelvey. Anyway this is the wrong thread to be discussing this. My opinion is still the same and that is that there's little to choose between the two but i'd give Colback the edge because, in my opinion, Shelvey looks better alongside him. Going forward, should we get promoted I'd expect Colback to be moved on and Hayden to be retained because I think Hayden will improve whereas I know Colback can't quite cut it at that level. You still haven't said why you think Shelvey looks better alongside Colback. What is it about Colback's game which brings out the best in Shelvey? I'm only really playing devil's advocate and haven't seen us play enough to have a strong opinion on it but it could be that Hayden tries more risky passes on the ball, instead of Colback who is aware of his limitations and will just give Shelvey the ball most of the time Does Hayden try more risky passes though? Can't say I noticed it previously, I thought he was pretty good in possession on the whole. He is good in possession and is certainly a much more talented passer than Colback but what I mean is that he is more likely to try to create something himself or even just play a lofted ball out to the flanks while Colback will usually just give the ball to the person closest to him which would be Shelvey a lot of the time. Could be wrong as I've only seen us about 4 or 5 times this season The only positive I can think of for Colback is he knows he's incredibly slow, and that means he won't venture far up the pitch. If you are lining up defensively then I suppose you know he won't be caught up the pitch. Any time he's caught in space he ends up hauling the man down because he can't keep pace with him. But in a game where you just need a defensive midfielder to provide a screen in front of the back four and pass it simple, he could do it at this level. But then again so could Hayden, I still think Colback only gets preferred when Rafa wants to keep Hayden fresh. Colback ventured far enough up the pitch the be heavily involved in our 2nd goal at Leeds last week.

We fell to pieces when he came on for the last 15 mins against Villa. I'd still put him in ahead of Colback but clearly Shelvey and Hayden is our best central midfield pairing. ^ You just seem to change your mind on this issue a lot and act like it's been your view for longer than 5 minutes, that's all m8 Have you changed your mind on who is our best central defensive partnership this season m8? A simple yes or no will suffice? Well no, not really. It'll take a lot more than what we've seen to convince me Colback is the better option or gets better performances out of Shelvey. From what I've seen of Colback this year it's the same old s*** with him hiding regularly, giving the ball away loads, and shock horror not getting found out for it quite as much because we're at a lower level. Hayden has been the better of the 2, and I've seen absolutely nothing to suggest Shelvey prefers playing alongside Colback, and neither had you since about 3 days ago. Who was your preferred centre half pairing before we kicked off at Fulham and who is your preferred centre half pairing now? What the f*** you on about? I'm saying people can change their mind and react to what they are watching. Read through the Ciaran Clark thread for proof of that. At the start of the season nobody would have had him in their starting XI, now just about everybody would.

We fell to pieces when he came on for the last 15 mins against Villa. I'd still put him in ahead of Colback but clearly Shelvey and Hayden is our best central midfield pairing. ^ You just seem to change your mind on this issue a lot and act like it's been your view for longer than 5 minutes, that's all m8 Have you changed your mind on who is our best central defensive partnership this season m8? A simple yes or no will suffice? Well no, not really. It'll take a lot more than what we've seen to convince me Colback is the better option or gets better performances out of Shelvey. From what I've seen of Colback this year it's the same old s*** with him hiding regularly, giving the ball away loads, and shock horror not getting found out for it quite as much because we're at a lower level. Hayden has been the better of the 2, and I've seen absolutely nothing to suggest Shelvey prefers playing alongside Colback, and neither had you since about 3 days ago. Who was your preferred centre half pairing before we kicked off at Fulham and who is your preferred centre half pairing now?

We fell to pieces when he came on for the last 15 mins against Villa. I'd still put him in ahead of Colback but clearly Shelvey and Hayden is our best central midfield pairing. ^ You just seem to change your mind on this issue a lot and act like it's been your view for longer than 5 minutes, that's all m8 Have you changed your mind on who is our best central defensive partnership this season m8? A simple yes or no will suffice?

So we have a better win percentage with Colback starting than Hayden then. Another question. Were you actually at the Norwich match? Did you watch it? We absolutely murdered them. Gayle should have had a hattrick before half time and they scored with their only 3 attempts on target, one being a penalty. Yeah, you said this in the Shelvey thread after that match: He was poor that night, every bit as bad as Hayden on Saturday. Read through the Colback thread and it's clear I'm not his greatest fan but generally speaking he's been OK this season. Unlike a lot of people on here I'm also happy to admit when he plays well. He was involved in both our goals down at Leeds last week but got no credit on here for that. He miss times a tackle or gives the ball away and the Colback thread goes into overdrive. A bit of balance would be nice.

So we have a better win percentage with Colback starting than Hayden then. Another question. Were you actually at the Norwich match? Did you watch it? We absolutely murdered them. Gayle should have had a hattrick before half time and they scored with their only 3 attempts on target, one being a penalty.

Mitrovic started as well. Maybe we should play him ahead of Gayle going by your logic? Shelvey ran the game with Hayden in the team, your "point" was that he is ineffective alongside Hayden compared to alongside Colback. It's bollocks basically, and reactionary bollocks based on a rare defeat. You're basing this on 1 match where the opposition were worse than dreadful and their manager lost his job not long after. Our results have been better this season with Colback/Shelvey than Hayden/Shelvey. Anyway this is the wrong thread to be discussing this. My opinion is still the same and that is that there's little to choose between the two but i'd give Colback the edge because, in my opinion, Shelvey looks better alongside him. Going forward, should we get promoted I'd expect Colback to be moved on and Hayden to be retained because I think Hayden will improve whereas I know Colback can't quite cut it at that level.

Mitrovic started as well. Maybe we should play him ahead of Gayle going by your logic?

And yet Hayden is miles better than Colback, so I'm confused. That isn't really up for debate imo. However the theory that Shelvey is more effective for us alongside Colback might have something to it. I just don't see logically how that could be the case. Yes, Hayden was awful yesterday but Colback has been repeatedly awful for ages. Dunno, maybe there's something in their psychology that's hard to explain. Colback's been decent the last few months, hasn't he? He's been fine this season. Tbf he's probably found his level which is why I think he'd be a great signing for any of the 3 relegated teams next season if we go up. Long term Hayden is clearly going to be the better bet but right now there's very little between them but for me I'd give Colback the nod because I think that Shelvey (our most important player) has looked better alongside him, and I base that opinion having seen the majority of matches this season, and not just to towing the party line on here.

Clearly Benitez has placed great importance on tomorrow's match so he's going to start with what he feels is his best team. If Colback is fit it'll be interesting to see who gets the nod to play alongside Shelvey.

Shelvey clearly plays better alongside Colback, that much is obvious. Our results are better with Colback in the team ahead of Hayden. When both players are fit Rafa has tended to prefer Colback to Hayden. I tend to agree with him, and not you on this occasion mind. Should we go up I think we could get decent money for Colback from one of the 3 relegated teams.

pretty equal all things considered, i'd just prefer Hayden if pushed We get a lot more out of Shelvey when he has Colback alongside him doing the donkey work and as Shelvey is clearly our most important player that is crucial. Rafa will have noticed this and I believe that's why he's tended to go with Colback ahead of Hayden recently.

Thought he was pretty anonymous, as was the rest of the midfield tbf.

You mustn't have watched us much this season then. Hayden was very poor v Fulham and Huddersfield at the start of the season so there's another couple of occasions straight away. As had been said, Colback is nowhere near as bad as he's made out to be on here and although Hayden will no doubt be the better long term prospect, right now, in this league, Colback has looked the better bet. I think he'll get more game time than Hayden this season because of that as well.

I would have made a treble substitution after an hour. Gayle, Diame and Gouffran on for Mitrovic, Perez and Atsu. Our attacking play today was pathetic, I include Ritchie in that as well.

Don't want to single Hayden out because not one of them delivered anything better than a 5/10 performance today but if Colback had put in a performance as bad as that his thread would be in overdrive about now. Wasn't confident when I seen the team as Rafa made it clear by resting his captain and top scorer that Tuesday is the priority but I suppose it'll shut the idiots up who want Mitrovic to start with their, "but we always win 6-0 when he starts argument". Anyway, bad day at the office all round but we're still 2 points clear and 90 minutes away from a League Cup Semi final so things not looking too bad.

SOLD OUT.

Stick them up on twitter. They'll sell in no time I'd imagine.

Colback's been fine this season. Involved in both goals last week.