Kid Icarus

What a shout!

Surely it just means space in behind.

You're backing up his point. That's a win ratio of 55%

I have no idea what you're prattling about tbh. Whatever reason Mitchell had for walking away, it's good for us because he was absolutely shite and I said as much about 3 weeks after he joined.

The reaction to the derby loss and performance is roughly equivalent to a run of 5 losses imo, which is to be expected I suppose. I swear a lot of the same people up in arms now were the same people who gobbled it up and had no ambition to do better than the derbies Pardew served up though.

One thing I find selective about these 'look at the bigger picture' posts is that in practice it essentially means look beyond whatever game we've just had but not beyond when our poor performances started, or beyond our run of poor away results, or beyond Howe being in charge of transfers in the summer.

I'd say stick to embarrassing yourself in the Sunderland thread but it's obviously already too late for that.

Eddie Howe is a coward? Get fucked man.

Not singling you out Decky because I’ve seen them brought up loads, but I think Villa sort of exemplify the grass-is-always-greener outlook that’s going on with a lot of people at the moment. The way people post about them, you’d think Villa’s rise had been smooth and linear under Emery with moments where they've missed out due to bad luck, with our rise being streaky and clunky and with moments of luck, but we’re actually very similar. The only big difference is that we’ve spent more, but when you get to the core of players section you’ll see why. I dunno where this idea that Villa managed their CL season better than us comes from either. I remember what they were like last season and their league form was pretty poor for a lot of it. They were 3 points better off than us by this time last season, 1 point worse off than when we were last in the CL. Nothing really to write home about and it took them bringing in 5 players to rally themselves into a run right at the end of the season. Probably gone into a bit too much detail here to make a quick and easy point, but I think the more you look into it, the more similarities you see. Basically, I imagine that there'll have been Villa versions of posters humming and harring in February about how much better Newcastle and Howe are doing than them, when they were hovering around 8th, 9th, and 10th and we were hovering around 4th, 5th, and 6th. In Howe and Emery's time at Newcastle and Villa: Silverware: Us: 1 Villa: 0 Champions League qualification: Us: 2 Villa: 1 Overall League position since each manager came in: Us: 4th Villa: 4th Finishes: Us: 4th, 7th, 5th Villa: 4th, 6th Head to head: Us: 3 Villa: 2 Draw: 1 GF/GA under each manager: Us: 1.79/1.29 Villa: 1.75/1.39 Points per game: Howe: 1.75 Emery: 1.85 Points at this stage in CL seasons: Us: 23/24: 26 – Finished 7th on 60 points – no incomings in Jan 24 25/26: 22 - ? Villa: 24/25: 25 – Finished 6th on 66 points – 2 signings and 3 loans in Jan 25 Points at this point in non-CL seasons: Us: 22/23: 30 - Finished 4th on 71 points 24/25: 23 - Finished 5th on 66 points Villa: 23/24: 35 - Finished 4th on 68 points 25/26: 33 - ? Core of players who’ve managed the step up since Howe and Emery arrived: Us: Schar, Joelinton, Murphy Villa: Martinez, Cash, Konsa, Mings, Kamara, McGinn, Buendia, Watkins Players in under each manager: Us: 22 since November 2021 Villa: 21, plus 5 loans since November 2022 Bad/mixed form: Us: Villa: Good form: Us: Villa:

Looks pretty even to me I think. It's relative isn't it. Villa spent in January, went on a mad run in the league and missed out at the last hurdle due to other teams also being on runs (including us) - there was nothing wrong with that decision against them imo. We missed out in the CL due to an incredibly dodgy decision, but that season had a real (relative) triumph over adversity feel about it that I'm not sure Villa fans would apply to their 24/25 season.

I rest my case

We were in the Champions League while they were having training sessions in the Conference League, likewise this season. I think you're making the point for me considering what happened to them last season and what happened to us in 23/24, them in 24/25, and us again in 25/26. There's a consistent line to draw there with the teams that's in the CL. They weren't extremely unlucky at all all like, the big picture is that they went on a Howe-style mad run of winning 9 games in 12 going from 10th to 6th in the process. We did the same, going from 12th to 5th - if you're being consistent then what's good for them is good for us.

You'd have sacked Pep last season then presumably.

They didn't like. At this point last season they were 3 points better off than us (via 1 extra win) in 7th and by the end of February they were in 10th with 10 wins in 23 matches. Until they started reaping the rewards of the 5 players they brought in in January (from March onwards) they were in nigh on exactly the same position as us and with the same inconsistent form.

and him staying applies to the incredible legacy he's had right up until now, if it didn't he wouldn't still be here. The expectation from some seems to be that if he drops below the incredible standards that he's set for the best part of 4 years for a 4 month period then no ifs, buts or maybes, there's a question mark over his head. I don't think that's a misrepresentation either and as someone said earlier that's about as clear cut an example of being a victim of your own success as it gets.

It's unhinged, let's be honest. The 'deluded Newcastle fan' stereotype is alive and well.

Stating your assumptions as facts is painting a picture imo. Just seeing a lot of 'common knowledge', 'pretty clear that...' stuff going on, when really all of the stuff we've got wind of doesn't really point to what you're presenting as fact at all. Re the bit in bold, the signings that you can realistically attribute to Howe extend beyond those players and beyond the signings he's made at Newcastle. As has been mentioned a few times, arguably the only outright certified dud in his signing portfolio is Jordan Ibe. I know people are scrambling to hoy the likes of Elanga and Ramsey in there, but it's far too early.

It's your assumption. Howe being on the transfer committee and having equal power within that is perfectly normal - Howe would be one of the most coveted DoF's going if he was just that and not also a coach. Painting that setup as some kind of dictatorship just because Ashworth and Mitchell left doesn't have anything supporting it.

6.5 for me. 5 in that it could go either way with a 2.5 bump based on previous evidence of us doing it before, how tight the league is, and Wissa to still come in, and a -1 reduction based on us not looking close to turning a proper corner.

Steve Nickson and Andy Howe aren't permanent DoFs and the setup in the summer wasn't how it should have been, as I said. In its proper format, we have a transfer committee and while Howe might have a deciding vote in some situations, that's not the same as final say.

He's getting all the criticism because he was shite and his form over the season has been worse, but in the game itself Gordon was far worse like. At least with Elanga he had a few moments of passing to one of our players or winning a corner, Gordon’s performance had no redeeming features at all.

Everything I've ever read is that in its proper format (ie not the summer just gone where we had no DoF) we have a transfer committee that runs in same way many other clubs have them.

The solution should be simple tbh, he doesn't play at all until he shows something off the bench. Barnes and Murphy can point to tangible things they've done recently and consistently as reasons they should be playing, the others don't and shouldn't be having their failures vindicated with starts over people who have succeeded.

3 pages of chat based on a completely baseless premise of him having final say.

Think it's Sunderland fans that are in denial about them tbh. They're very much in the 'this is unsustainable' category that many other teams have been in before. It'll definitely do the trick for what's needed this season, but they'll need to switch it up next season if they don't want to go the same way the other teams did.