St. Maximin

Yeah I know, need a name change

If the one and only Dean Jones from Give Me Sport thinks ASM is going then he’s almost certainly off. Might as well start thinking about his replacement now.

Mate I know - I completely agree with you on your comments here. Simple analysis of our performances and his decisions should tell the ordinary fan what they need to know. I was just saying if we go by the table it’s not hard to see why some people might defend him. We comfortably stayed up despite having a squad that was very poor when the star players were injured. It doesn’t change the fact he’s a dinosaur and as I said he’s now been shown up over time, just like how Pardew has. We have quite a lot to thank WBA for actually.

Sorry mate this is ridiculous. Trying to show some understanding and this is the response . It’s an interesting kind of ‘defending’ when I’m agreeing with everyone that he’s a moron.

Playing Devil’s advocate, but it’s not hard to see why people defended Bruce tbh. We finished 13th and 12th under him, which imo was on paper around par or overachieving if anything. We finished comfortably above mastermind Graham Potter’s Brighton I believe. Of course his managerial qualities were still terrible, his overall attitude even worse and he was well defended by his mates in the media, but we shouldn’t be that shocked by the “he did as well as Rafa” comments because a lot of football fans will just look at the table and not follow other teams closely enough to see what the football was like. Thankfully Howe’s brilliance combined with Bruce’s car crash performance at West Brom have proven he’s a fraud to most people.

Spot on, it’s a shame people would rather be ignorant and not examine why he was so popular here. I do hope he gets another decent job and shows what he’s capable of, though I feel there are some adjustments he might need to make, in line with how football in general has changed. I imagine he’s constantly studying and learning though, rather like our current manager. Really doubt that about the other bloke in between…

Oh aye they were incredible. Playing ultra-defensive is still risky though and only achieved in us not ruining the goal difference too much. They could have easily scored more on another day, though I guess that doesn’t matter as they didn’t. I’m agreeing by and large with the pro-Rafa comments here thankfully. Just don’t think it should be too black and white (ironically) that his achievements means we shouldn’t be happy with criticism. He certainly has his limitations and it’s fine to recognise those without making out they mean he’s a bad manager. Not like we don’t criticise our favourite players after all.

Good point, though don’t fully agree about the outcome of that Man City match. Many weak teams have had a go at home to them and got thumped, but many have got positive results too. I don’t really blame Rafa for that, but it wasn’t pretty to watch and we’d have been far less complimentary to a less successful manager for that. I don’t have an issue with pundits criticising it tbh - more annoyed Bruce wouldn’t get the same treatment. Also this might differ to others here, but I have reservations over him pointing out the limitations of our squad, which helped him get away with some pretty bad runs of form. There’s often not an awful lot the separates teams that scrape into the top 10 from those in the relegation zone. We had no more of a ‘Championship squad’ than plenty of other teams, or Bruce did at times.

He did a great job here. Find it hard to see why some of our fans would disagree if they were following us closely and seeing the bigger picture. Doesn’t mean it should always work out for him, or any failure is never his own fault. Whatever you say about Everton’s toxic environment, he hardly helped himself. Also clearly it’s very open at the bottom, but I wouldn’t be overly confident he’d keep them up as he didn’t in his first season here and typically needs time to let his methods work, if they do.

Seems highly realistic that Marsch could get sacked by a team that gets relegated and then turn down jobs at both of the other relegated teams. What a season for the bloke.

Might be my ignorance as someone who doesn’t referee, but I’m pretty sure we could significantly improve VAR through, in addition to some solid evaluation of issues, not employing idiots. I often rightly hear about the issues of subjectivity and determining what is ‘clear and obvious’, but both of those Brighton penalties weren’t down to issues of subjectivity but down to the fact the people operating were idiots (or corrupt/both). Refs not giving those are perfect arguments for a system that involves video replays where someone who isn’t a complete idiot can take a quick look and overturn them. Shouldn’t be hard really.

Don’t think his reaction is any big deal. I reckon Howe will appreciate his desire even if the reaction wasn’t great. I could swear Klopp often angers Henderson by taking him off, but hasn’t stopped him being picked as skipper. Did think it was weird being the 93rd minute though.

Just about got over the fact we didn’t take Rafa back last year now.

I think we’ve possibly been overanalysing things too much in thinking about whether he suits Howe’s style etc. He absolutely does, but he’s been dealing with a combination of injuries, confidence issues and increased competition for places. In previous years he could play like yesterday and be the best player on the pitch and that would just be seen as a typical ASM performance. Nowadays we probably shouldn’t be expecting him to be that guy, but to be an effective winger among multiple strong attacking players, even when he’s indirectly making things happen rather than scoring wonder goals.

Speaking admittedly as someone who didn’t watch Brighton much, but I don’t get why people say he did amazing at Brighton. I think he had a good season and before that finished below Steve Bruce’s Newcastle. We all know Bruce didn’t have a clue but ‘on paper’ I don’t think his squad was better than Brighton’s. Also I’m sure Chelsea’s problems go a lot deeper than a manager, but it hardly reflects well on him that they’re still underperforming this much despite the millions spent.

Tbf there are some weird criticisms aimed at him, but I do still support the general premise that we don’t beat the best teams in tournaments under him and that’s ultimately where he gets judged. He’s beaten no shortage of good sides outside of them (and should still be praised for that). There’s absolutely nothing embarrassing about losing to Croatia, Italy and France by the way. It’s the fact it continues to go that way over time that makes a lot of people disillusioned with him rather than him just proving himself as a fraud (which he definitely isn’t). Find it hard to feel that strongly though when there’s no clear candidate to replace him.

Personally I find the polarised views towards him really puzzling. He’s done a brilliant job at generating an excellent culture in a likeable team and that’s contributed to far more big tournament success than we’ve had previously in my lifetime. That he could win a group stage match against Italy was never a surprise though. He’s proved time and time again he can win these games. He’s continued to show his limitations in the big tournaments though and that’s why I’d be pretty happy to move on. You can say some of our players are overrated and you might be right, but it’s still one of the best squads in the world on paper. Finishing second in a tournament we practically hosted is hardly anything special. I’ve always said there’s some completely disproportionate criticism of the guy and people seem to have some bizarre ideas of what international football is like and typical standard of its managers. But this win shouldn’t really change anything.

Find it hard to see why some people want him to stay. He’s had over six years and three international tournaments where he’s not remotely disgraced himself, but that’s a long time to manage one of the best teams if you aren’t going to win anything/get past the quarters in your last tournament. I like him as well (some of criticism is still a bit crazy), but he’s done his time now and the uninspiring and predictable approach is far less justified now.

I don’t go to matches, but my season ticket holding friend criticises him a lot and says everyone around him in the East Stand gets really annoyed by him for his work rate, decision-making etc. Is this normal for the rest of the ground and can’t help surely? Funnily enough most other fans I speak to or read online seem far more positive about him. It wasn’t his best game, but I thought he was pretty good. Swear some fans just form a negative opinion on someone easily and go looking for their flaws early on, then convince those around them to groan too.

To be fair they wouldn’t be. He’s the chairman of a large bank on the stock exchange in Qatar, with a 17% Qatar Investment Authority shareholding. Clearly there’s a state connection there, but the it’s far less direct than being state-owned like us. Based on what we know about the bloke, I don’t see why this wouldn’t be allowed.

To be fair the guy has a held a managerial career for over 20 years. I really doubt he’s simply fluked all the good times - I’m sure he has had something about him that could help a team keep a momentum going for a while, as with Bruce. That doesn’t mean he’s any good overall though as ultimately things will crumble, he’ll be unable to address the issues and be found out. It seemed to work like that often for him, accept at West Brom where he was just useless from the off. A bit like a certain someone else who has managed us in recent years. Ultimately these old-school 4-4-2 “man managers” could probably get by for a while despite their limitations, but by the time their career had declined to getting the West Brom job, the game had completely moved on and they had very little to offer. You could include Allardyce there too, but I would say it’s harsh on him to be compared to the others.

That season we finished 5th - on paper where should our squad have finished? Given some of the talent there I reckon 7th would have been right and it just happened that Liverpool and Chelsea had poor seasons. Don’t think we massively overachieved really.

He’s a great centre-mid and I want him there every week. Glad Howe seems to think so. That dive though. Pathetic and he knew it. But we’re such great shithouses aren’t we etc.

Yeah I’ve seen some research into how people often focus disproportionately on the athleticism of black players even when they’re also very good technically. I personally think there’s some racism in how black players are described, even if it’s subconscious and can be in a positive way. Animalistic comparisons seem more common. Big and powerful players are often described as a ‘beast’, while clumsy and ineffective players are a ‘donkey’ - pretty sure these terms are used disproportionately way more frequently for black players.

He did an excellent job at Burnley, makes his teams hard to beat and has joined a club in a shitshow as you say, so doesn’t seem a silly move. Can’t say I have any desire to watch his football, but despite using the phrase “proper football club”, he spoke very well in his first interview and is actually a very articulate and funny bloke. Maybe too likeable for that club actually.