Form away from home

[Mick]

 

Well, you say that about SWP but Charlie was dropped today to accomodate Barton and for me in midfield, he's the first name on the teamsheet. We lacked pace and width today (so I understand) as you'd expect from that line up but I think we have some in the squad, enough to be performing better than we did today and at Derby, that's for sure. CN'Z and Milner give us pace (from the former anyway) and width, for whatever reason we didn't use that today.

 

Solano and Dyer, well Solano's legs have gone as far as midfield is concerned and Dyer's a crock who's not that good anyway in any position. I don't feel we've lost anything through losing them. We could do with a pacier, trickier right winger but for where we aim to be this season, Europe, I don't think Milner is a bad option even if he's not the best. Duff on the right, Charlie left could still be an option if Duff can pull his finger out.

 

I want to do better too as we all do, but I don't think that's the issue about today's performance. If we're talking about new strikers, it'll be beyond this season and aiming for top 4. Losing points at places where we have been is a different matter which lies more in central midfield than anywhere for me.

 

First choice midfield is a good question, I'll need to see some more of Barton and also need to see if Emre can find some consistency. Next game, mackems I think, I'd probably pick N'Zogbia - Emre - Geremi - Milner. Not convinced about Butt away from home and Barton needs fitness but I'd like a midfield that plays week-in, week-out when fit. This is potentially our shortest ever PL season, so rotation is not a huge issue. I'd like a settled midfield.

 

I'd go along with that.

[Dr Venkman]

hopefully the game at the mackems place will come at a good time for us and be the start of us turning things around away from home

[Wullie]

hopefully the game at the mackems place will come at a good time for us and be the start of us turning things around away from home

 

It'll have to be.

[Dr Venkman]

hopefully the game at the mackems place will come at a good time for us and be the start of us turning things around away from home

 

It'll have to be.

 

i dont think its panic stations quite yet, i'm disapointed with our away form too but we're still doing well imo, still very early days for sam

[NE5]

NE5, you like Owen and think he's top class and you were happy with the signings of Viduka and Smith as forward players, yes? I know you're not convinced by Martins, but you must admit that he's got a considerable amount of ability despite his faults.

 

With this in mind, why do you want us to sign even more forwards? We've at least three who you're happy to see up top for us. We can't just keep signing strikers for considerable amounts of money then after a couple of questionable away performances decide that we need at least two more.

 

Players like Martins, Owen, Viduka, even Smith who I'm not terribly keen on as a player, are good enough strikers to beat teams like Reading and Derby, unless you think that Kenny Miller and Dave Kitson are better than them, which they're clearly not. I know you want Tevez and Henry but we don't need two £20-30m strikers to win Premiership games against most of the dross. Our foursome is top six material and it's an incredibly simplistic attitude to say "more strikers please" every time we lose. A football team plays with 11 players, not 2 [/patronising].

 

Main problem away from home imo is not bossing midfield like we do at home. We are missing Viduka though, we missed him at Derby and although I've not seen anything of today as yet, I'm willing to bet he'd have made a huge difference.

 

I think our main problem - like yourself - is that we lack quality in midfield, in particular we lack pace and width. Its not as simple as saying Milner should be playing because he's a wide player, Allardyce clearly has reservations about his ability, which I share. My point is that if we had players who were quality, dropping them for away games wouldn't even be a consideration. Do you think if we had signed Sean Wright Phillips for instance he would be dropped for away games ? I don't.

 

We also need backup, its a fact that players are rotated or injured or not 100% fit all the time.

 

We didn't replace Solano. We didn't replace Dyer, even though he hardly played, but he hardly played last year which was why we needed someone like him who played. Therefore we still need someone like him who actually plays. If the players are good enough, they would pick themselves.

 

My problem about up front is, while I was happy to buy Smith, I know he isn't a prolific goalscorer, he needs someone to partner him who is, like Owen. But Owen has hardly played. I think we have to accept that he will be going at the end of his contract at the latest so should be looking to the future without him. I know Martins scores goals, but he has weaknesses which will stop him being a top player. I'm not discarding him, I know he has value, but it is just a position that we should be looking for someone else with certain attributes that are required and then look at the situation. If you want consistent teams, its vital to have consistent quality players in certain positions, those most important positions being the ones through the centre of the team. I would like him to improve his ball retention and not disappear as often as he does.

 

It adds up to a complete reshaping of the attack. Viduka is not young [he's good but also disappears a bit too much for my liking], and I don't count Ameobi.

 

We are doing alright with these players, but like everyone else, I want to do much better, and its just that I think this is how we will do better.

 

I completely agree that we should be beating Reading and Derby, in fact I think I came on here after the game against Derby and had a go at Sam and got criticised for it [may be wrong, maybe it was elsewhere], and yes I am disappointed in him playing his favourites today ie dropping zoggy for Barton when he should have dropped his captain, which I think was his thinking. Understandable, but the wrong selection, and unfortunately is heading for the same situation as Roeder, who had to pick Parker for the same reason.

 

Edit: what would your first choice midfield be in away games ?

 

 

Well, you say that about SWP but Charlie was dropped today to accomodate Barton and for me in midfield, he's the first name on the teamsheet. We lacked pace and width today (so I understand) as you'd expect from that line up but I think we have some in the squad, enough to be performing better than we did today and at Derby, that's for sure. CN'Z and Milner give us pace (from the former anyway) and width, for whatever reason we didn't use that today.

 

Solano and Dyer, well Solano's legs have gone as far as midfield is concerned and Dyer's a crock who's not that good anyway in any position. I don't feel we've lost anything through losing them. We could do with a pacier, trickier right winger but for where we aim to be this season, Europe, I don't think Milner is a bad option even if he's not the best. Duff on the right, Charlie left could still be an option if Duff can pull his finger out.

 

I want to do better too as we all do, but I don't think that's the issue about today's performance. If we're talking about new strikers, it'll be beyond this season and aiming for top 4. Losing points at places where we have been is a different matter which lies more in central midfield than anywhere for me.

 

First choice midfield is a good question, I'll need to see some more of Barton and also need to see if Emre can find some consistency. Next game, mackems I think, I'd probably pick N'Zogbia - Emre - Geremi - Milner. Not convinced about Butt away from home and Barton needs fitness but I'd like a midfield that plays week-in, week-out when fit. This is potentially our shortest ever PL season, so rotation is not a huge issue. I'd like a settled midfield.

 

Milner doesn't have pace. He's one paced. Players like Beckham and Solano have also been one paced but compensated for that by being great crossers and having footballing intelligence. Milner is nowhere near the standards that those 2 set, especially Beckham.

 

For me, zoggy is the first name on the sheet, in midfield, followed by Barton and Butt - home or away and irrespective of the opposition.

 

Geremi and Milner are neck and neck for the other position for my money. I don't think either are good enough.

 

Looking further, where do you set your standards. If you are applying the sort of standards that Keegan set - which we ought to be doing - then possibly only zoggy is good enough, in my opinion. Keegan rated Barton at Man City, I'm not sure he's as good as Rob Lee, we haven't seen enough of him yet but I'd be surprised if he is. Sam is talking about him being a Roy Keane. A bit over the top that one, but at least he's giving positive vibes about a good player.

 

At the end of the day, there is no sentiment in football. If you want to succeed you have to be ruthless. Remember when Keegan sold Cole ? But he replaced him with Sir Les, a better all round footballer.

 

The fact that Cole went on and won loads of trophies, despite not being as good as Ferdinand - IMO - is just a quirk of football. He was what Manure needed at the time. But they are a different club, with a different mentality, and expect to win trophies.

 

There is no point in people getting sentimental about Martins, on account of the goals he scores. Yes his goals saved us from going down last season, and yes he has a value and a degree of quality, but at the end of the day he lacks certain qualities that are necessary to succeed, for the position he plays. Give me Craig Bellamy anyday, who would be a superb partner for Owen. You will not be a consistent team if you have inconsistent players playing in the important positions.

 

We may be bigger and better than Derby and Reading, but the standards that Keegan set have slipped.

 

And before anyone says anything about the chairman and the regime of the club, the club have appointed managers with winning pedigrees, managers who - in the eyes of people like macca888 - have succeeded elsewhere and so must have been good choices. Dalglish, Gullit and Robson certainly expected to succeed in the opinion of the vast majority of people.

 

The simple fact, is that Keegan was made for Newcastle, but by going PLC the club shot itself in the foot and we lost our Shankly, who would have built us a club like Liverpool.

 

 

[merlin]

hopefully the game at the mackems place will come at a good time for us and be the start of us turning things around away from home

 

It'll have to be.

 

We'll be lucky even to draw at Sunderland - they will get into us just like Reading and Derby did, and the team can't handle it - the long balls chucked up to small strikers simply mean that the pressure comes straight back on to the back four ; the midfield aren't good enough to keep possession either - Emre is hopeless away from SJP, spends too much time feigning injury.

If anyone is hoping that a win at the Mackems' is going to turn the away form round, I wouldn't hold your breath...

[BlueStar]

Fingers crossed Sam will have learned his lesson and will start with Zog and Milner by the time the mackems come around.  The thing I don't understand is, they're not even luxury players - they put the work in, track back etc.  It's not like the decision to play a Ginola or a Robert away from home.

[Guest Harry-Norway]

Very bad game yesterday from Sams men,i couldnt see anybody  bleeding for Toon,like they are payed  to do.its their job!!!

 

No pace,no attack-poor defending,we didnt grap the 2 nd ball,very poor pasing ,just as the Derby game,we will not getmany away points this way

[Guest Brazilianbob]

Fingers crossed Sam will have learned his lesson and will start with Zog and Milner by the time the mackems come around.  The thing I don't understand is, they're not even luxury players - they put the work in, track back etc.  It's not like the decision to play a Ginola or a Robert away from home.

 

BSA is like all mediocre managers, he puts his faith in the older experienced players who will follow his defensive instructions.  There is no room for flair players like Zoggy and Milner and that was probably the real reason why Dyer and Solano were allowed to leave.  I would say Barton is his ideal player because he has a bit of everything but can be asked to defend. and put a hold on his attacking flair when away from home.

 

I would not be at all surprised to see Martins sold in the transfer window and Anelka brought in from Bolton so he can play 4 5 1 away from home with Barton getting up in support.

 

My prediction is a defeat at Sunderland.

[Guest Harry-Norway]

Some of the Toon playeers have a bad atitude,they dont fight after loosing the ball,they just stand around and look stupid.

 

Give me Zog back from the start,we must be more offensive playing away games,and we need a big tall striker with Owen/Martins on top.

 

Can be a tough game against Poppey `s as well,and then its Mackems away-SO TOON PLAYERS-START BLEEDEING BLACK AND WHITE

[Guest Peter.Sthlm]

I think the squad needs more time to adapt to his new mentality. It's obviously something that most of the players haven't understood yet and it will probably take alot more time then just 3 months to make them comfortable with it. One thing that highlighted this yesterday was set pieces. Under Allardyce Bolton where maybe the most dangerous team in the league when it came to set pieces. Right now we are just average/among the worst. Faye is another example of it. To me it seemed like he was the only player knowing exactly what to do at all time.

[Razor]

I think the squad needs more time to adapt to his new mentality. It's obviously something that most of the players haven't understood yet and it will probably take alot more time then just 3 months to make them comfortable with it. One thing that highlighted this yesterday was set pieces. Under Allardyce Bolton where maybe the most dangerous team in the league when it came to set pieces. Right now we are just average/among the worst. Faye is another example of it. To me it seemed like he was the only player knowing exactly what to do at all time.

 

I think you have a point there.

 

But i'm not sure this is a good style of football to be playing, especially with the players we've got 

[toptoon]

I can't believe he is so blind to the state of our away form. We need to attack teams like Reading, Derby and yes even Citeh etc etc

 

Setting our stall out for a draw with no wingers and 4 CM's and hoping to nick a goal reminds me of Soumess ffs!!

 

How can someone get it so right at home and so wrong away is beyond me. he needs to sort this soon or he'll not last till the end of the season. Raves on about Fergie and how good he is, i'm sure he won't come to Reading pack the midfield playing for a draw hoping to nick it, nor will any of the bigger decent teams for that matter.

 

SORT YOUR BLOODY HEAD OUT SAM, ITS SOUMESS LIKE AND DISGRACEFULL!!! PLAY TO OUR STRENGTHS AND ATTACK FFS!!

 

 

[Kev]

Have we ever had a good away form?

hopefully big sam changes it all v the mackems

 

n'zogbia and milner must start, they changed the game completly yesterday

[Rob W]

lastseason teh guys who do the stats in the Times showed that with most teams their away performances are worse because they go expecting to defend whereas at home they come out attacking

 

Seems to be all in the mind

 

I guess we left our attacking instincts in gatesheid yesterday

[Guest Mantis]

Different tactics for different away games is fine, but with our squad we should be going out to bury teams like Reading, Derby, Fulham, Wigan etc.  The lineup was wrong yesterday and he should have been big enough to turn it around before half time by introducing width. 

[Guest derek sausage]

If you look back over the years we have been consistently poor away from home bar maybe the odd season here and there.

Even as far back as the sixties & seventies whichever manager was in charge we've been be relied on to put in the most dire away performances imaginable.

I had hoped that this season would be different hoping that after the Derby debacle things would be different. Unfortunately yesterday showed that nothings changed. Wish I knew why we've got this long standing problem.

[Guest Brazilianbob]

If you look back over the years we have been consistently poor away from home bar maybe the odd season here and there.

Even as far back as the sixties & seventies whichever manager was in charge we've been be relied on to put in the most dire away performances imaginable.

I had hoped that this season would be different hoping that after the Derby debacle things would be different. Unfortunately yesterday showed that nothings changed. Wish I knew why we've got this long standing problem.

 

A manager who builds a side that relies solely upon defence away from home will always see flair players/wingers as a luxury they cannot afford, especially when dropping them means he can stick in 2 defensive midfielders who can stifle the opposition.  The problem is that when it works and they get a result, these managers feel vindicated in cramming as many defenders/defensive midfielders into the side as possible.  To my way of thinking it is fear of the opposition and lack of faith in your own teams ability.  BSA actually said that Reading make it difficult for teams to play their own game.  Surely if we are playing defensively that is what we should be doing to teams like Reading, not the other way round.  The excuses have started already and the fans just won't stand for winning at home and then being humiliated away, especially when the cost of traveling and buying tickets is so exorbitant.

[Andy]

i couldnt see anybody  bleeding for Toon,like they are payed  to do.its their job!!!

 

Yeah, I saw Geremi out and about in the town the other day, and I told him he should really be cutting into himself a few times before the match kicks off - doing a bit of self-harming, you know? Didn't even want to listen though. No way is he captain material.

[Kev]

Big Sam is on goals on sunday and hes just admitted, excellent at home and useless away

[Parky]

Big Sam is on goals on sunday and hes just admitted, excellent at home and useless away

 

Did he admit a tactical blunder of Rome burning proportions?

[biggs]

FFS he admits to playing for a point against a team being rogered by nearly all who play against them .pityful 

really how can we pect to be taken seriously in the prem with an attitude like ours playing cautious football looking for a point when we have shown that attacking teams wth positive play we can turn them over .will fat sam learn from this i do not know but win home lose away will be the norm if we do not change our tactics and play to our capabilties.

[Parky]

FFS he admits to playing for a point against a team being rogered by nearly all who play against them .pityful 

really how can we pect to be taken seriously in the prem with an attitude like ours playing cautious football looking for a point when we have shown that attacking teams wth positive play we can turn them over .will fat sam learn from this i do not know but win home lose away will be the norm if we do not change our tactics and play to our capabilties.

 

 

The clock has started.

[Andy]

FFS he admits to playing for a point against a team being rogered by nearly all who play against them .pityful 

really how can we pect to be taken seriously in the prem with an attitude like ours playing cautious football looking for a point when we have shown that attacking teams wth positive play we can turn them over .will fat sam learn from this i do not know but win home lose away will be the norm if we do not change our tactics and play to our capabilties.

 

 

The clock has started.

 

Did you remember to wind it back an hour last night?

[NE5]

FFS he admits to playing for a point against a team being rogered by nearly all who play against them .pityful 

really how can we pect to be taken seriously in the prem with an attitude like ours playing cautious football looking for a point when we have shown that attacking teams wth positive play we can turn them over .will fat sam learn from this i do not know but win home lose away will be the norm if we do not change our tactics and play to our capabilties.

 

The clock has started.

 

and turning full circle it seems