Steve McClaren

[cp40]

Sick of this 2 defensive midfielders s****. David Batty used to do it on his own man. Need to use a natural winger possibly Thauvin,move Gini inside and use 1 defensive midfielder.

 

We don't have a David Batty, this is the main problem.

Just can't understand the obsession with 2 defensive midfielders.

 

 

the water did a better job than Colback

[WarrenBartonCentrePartin]

Sick of this 2 defensive midfielders s****. David Batty used to do it on his own man. Need to use a natural winger possibly Thauvin,move Gini inside and use 1 defensive midfielder.

 

We don't have a David Batty, this is the main problem.

Just can't understand the obsession with 2 defensive midfielders.

 

Especially at home to rock-bottom Aston Villa currently without a league win since opening day. He picks the same team and formation each week, there's no thinking about doing something different to shift the onus and pattern of play. There's nothing new for opposition managers to deal with, there's no wild card to be played, it's defensive, functional, fairly ineffective, rigid systems every week and without a bit of variation it makes us very easy to play against. We're crying out for a bit of spontaneity but if we're not going to get it in the easiest (on paper) fixture of the year then we're never going to get it. 

 

It's why I'm amazed folk couldn't believe he didn't start with Perez and/or Mitrovic today. We'll persist with it until we start getting thumped again.

 

I'm fully expecting him to go with exactly the same again versus Everton, only maybe with Mitrovic in for Cisse but that's out of necessity rather than tactical nous.

[Mick]

McClaren has no say in how we play other then the team he picks, if the players are only motivated against the top teams then McClaren isn't doing his job.

[SteveMc]

I thought it as being on TV that motivated them. It's all very confusing!

[Foluwashola]

For once it didn't feel as though motivation / work rate were major factors in today's result tbf.

[HawK]

McClaren has no say in how we play other then the team he picks, if the players are only motivated against the top teams then McClaren isn't doing his job.

 

It's been a problem for this club for 10 years now, give or take, except in the Championship season, since SBR was sacked, and shortly after we came back up. There's just an ethos of rot and going through the motions that isn't being shaken loose.

 

We really need more British-based players who understand what the club means to the fans, not the mercenaries who joined to be put in the PL shop window that turn it on for Sky and scouts attending the big matches. We've gone so far one way in this regard it's hard to see it reverting any time soon. The Championship season was good, because regardless of the ability, we had Barton, Nolan, Smith, Butt, Harper, Carroll et al dragging the others through the games against the Championship dross on cold Friday nights.

[Wullie]

It's not motivation that sees us beat the better sides year-on-year, it's a simple matter of being a counter attacking team with very little else in our locker. Not a lot has changed in that regard from what we were seeing a year or two ago, in fact we're even getting our results in identical games - Chelsea (h), Spurs (a), Liverpool (h).

 

We thumped Norwich because they naively decided to play an attacking game with a high line. If the opposition decide to set up even vaguely conservatively, we've got nothing.

[triggs]

It's not motivation that sees us beat the better sides year-on-year, it's a simple matter of being a counter attacking team with very little else in our locker. Not a lot has changed in that regard from what we were seeing a year or two ago, in fact we're even getting our results in identical games - Chelsea (h), Spurs (a), Liverpool (h).

 

We thumped Norwich because they naively decided to play an attacking game with a high line. If the opposition decide to set up even vaguely conservatively, we've got nothing.

Aye fully agree. As if Premier League footballers think that scouts only watch the games that are on TV

[Parky]

The primadonas also play up against the elite sides for the camera and the shop window. Other than that I agree with Wullie.

[Wullie]

McClaren has no say in how we play other then the team he picks, if the players are only motivated against the top teams then McClaren isn't doing his job.

 

It's been a problem for this club for 10 years now, give or take, except in the Championship season, since SBR was sacked, and shortly after we came back up. There's just an ethos of rot and going through the motions that isn't being shaken loose.

 

We really need more British-based players who understand what the club means to the fans, not the mercenaries who joined to be put in the PL shop window that turn it on for Sky and scouts attending the big matches. We've gone so far one way in this regard it's hard to see it reverting any time soon. The Championship season was good, because regardless of the ability, we had Barton, Nolan, Smith, Butt, Harper, Carroll et al dragging the others through the games against the Championship dross on cold Friday nights.

 

Agreed. Less Perez, more Colback please.

[Wullie]

The primadonas also play up against the elite sides for the camera and the shop window. Other than that I agree with Wullie.

 

They don't though. We've been absolutely horrendous in possession at Spurs three years running and somehow won all three games. It's a very easy cliche. Nobody can tell me we were impressive against Liverpool and Spurs, this season or last. We've won the games because we've been solid and pinched it on the break in the second half. Nothing wrong with that, but it's not evidence that the players are somehow turning up against those teams. I'd be even more worried if that was them turning it on, Jesus.

[Foluwashola]

The primadonas also play up against the elite sides for the camera and the shop window. Other than that I agree with Wullie.

 

They don't though. We've been absolutely horrendous in possession at Spurs three years running and somehow won all three games. It's a very easy cliche. Nobody can tell me we were impressive against Liverpool and Spurs, this season or last. We've won the games because we've been solid and pinched it on the break in the second half. Nothing wrong with that, but it's not evidence that the players are somehow turning up against those teams. I'd be even more worried if that was them turning it on, Jesus.

 

We were very impressive second half last week.

[Wullie]

The primadonas also play up against the elite sides for the camera and the shop window. Other than that I agree with Wullie.

 

They don't though. We've been absolutely horrendous in possession at Spurs three years running and somehow won all three games. It's a very easy cliche. Nobody can tell me we were impressive against Liverpool and Spurs, this season or last. We've won the games because we've been solid and pinched it on the break in the second half. Nothing wrong with that, but it's not evidence that the players are somehow turning up against those teams. I'd be even more worried if that was them turning it on, Jesus.

 

We were very impressive second half last week.

 

After we scored certainly, when the home team under enormous pressure to win the game has to come out and throw everything at us, and we can break. Mitrovic nearly scored on the break, then Perez did score on the break. We've hardly scored a goal all season that wasn't either a counter attack or a set piece.

 

Our offensive threat against a team that is defending basically doesn't exist.

[HawK]

Hah at least quote back to me directly.

[buzza]

The primadonas also play up against the elite sides for the camera and the shop window. Other than that I agree with Wullie.

 

They don't though. We've been absolutely horrendous in possession at Spurs three years running and somehow won all three games. It's a very easy cliche. Nobody can tell me we were impressive against Liverpool and Spurs, this season or last. We've won the games because we've been solid and pinched it on the break in the second half. Nothing wrong with that, but it's not evidence that the players are somehow turning up against those teams. I'd be even more worried if that was them turning it on, Jesus.

 

We were very impressive second half last week.

 

After we scored certainly, when the home team under enormous pressure to win the game has to come out and throw everything at us, and we can break. Mitrovic nearly scored on the break, then Perez did score on the break. We've hardly scored a goal all season that wasn't either a counter attack or a set piece.

 

Our offensive threat against a team that is defending basically doesn't exist.

Agree, we seem to have only a "Plan A" which is work hard,soak up the threat and possibly hit them on the break when they go through a rough spell, add to this the silly tactic of bringing on our two better forward players with only thirty minutes and it shows the imagination of our coach... Thauvin for ten minutes yesterday was the exception to the rule

[Ketsbaia]

It's hard to be too harsh on yesterday's game because of those conditions, but persisting with Cisse needs to stop right now. Did McClaren think the strategy for Villa should be the same as Spurs & Liverpool? If so, that's worrying.

 

We had the chances to win that but could also have lost, I just hope we don't regret dropping those 2 points. At least we didn't lose, I suppose.

[Lush Vlad]

Agree on Cisse.  I said it after West Ham and I stand by it.  I'd be happy to never see him play for us again.  Can't stand watching him.  He's an appalling footballer, his touch and decision making leaves a lot to be desired and I don't think he's been arsed about being here for a long while now.  Maybe the club have been trying to peddle him and it's fucked him off?  Who knows.  Either way, he's not worthy of a starting spot in our team. 

 

Not sure about de Jong either.  Too slow and ponderous.  Doesn't offer as much as Perez and I'm just not sure what his position or role in the team is? 

 

Really reminded me of Pardew with the team on Saturday.  He's found a winning formula and he's just going to stick with it.  Totally ignoring players on the subs bench that are clearly superior or more suited, than those in the starting XI.

 

If Gestede had started, I think Villa would have won comfortably.  The prospect of relegation seems very real again all of a sudden.  Any team with a tall centre forward, is going to create a lot of chances against our woeful back 4.

[lovejoy]

It's not motivation that sees us beat the better sides year-on-year, it's a simple matter of being a counter attacking team with very little else in our locker. Not a lot has changed in that regard from what we were seeing a year or two ago, in fact we're even getting our results in identical games - Chelsea (h), Spurs (a), Liverpool (h).

 

We thumped Norwich because they naively decided to play an attacking game with a high line. If the opposition decide to set up even vaguely conservatively, we've got nothing.

 

This is a great point mind.

[Lush Vlad]

It's not motivation that sees us beat the better sides year-on-year, it's a simple matter of being a counter attacking team with very little else in our locker. Not a lot has changed in that regard from what we were seeing a year or two ago, in fact we're even getting our results in identical games - Chelsea (h), Spurs (a), Liverpool (h).

 

We thumped Norwich because they naively decided to play an attacking game with a high line. If the opposition decide to set up even vaguely conservatively, we've got nothing.

 

This is a great point mind.

 

It is indeed.  Not seen it argued as well as that.  But haven't people basically been saying this on here for quite a while now?

[Wullie]

Never claimed I was saying anything revolutionary like, just taking issue with the idea that we can't beat shit teams because the players choose not to bother their arse in those games. If every mediocre team gave Sissoko and Wijnaldum the sort of space to run into that Norwich did, they'd look dynamite every single week and nobody would be criticising their effort. Doing that gets the real shit in the team, that contribute absolutely nothing going forward, off the hook.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

He's found a winning formula and he's just going to stick with it.  Totally ignoring players on the subs bench that are clearly superior or more suited, than those in the starting XI.

 

I don't think this is fair at all. He started the season without Perez, then he brought him in, then dropped him again. De Jong never played, now he's had a (very short) run of games. Mitrovic was starting and then he dropped out.

 

Whether you agree or disagree with the current lineup is one thing, but I don't think it's fair to say that McClaren never changes things. He just doesn't change things every game.

[Lush Vlad]

He's found a winning formula and he's just going to stick with it.  Totally ignoring players on the subs bench that are clearly superior or more suited, than those in the starting XI.

 

I don't think this is fair at all. He started the season without Perez, then he brought him in, then dropped him again. De Jong never played, now he's had a (very short) run of games. Mitrovic was starting and then he dropped out.

 

Whether you agree or disagree with the current lineup is one thing, but I don't think it's fair to say that McClaren never changes things. He just doesn't change things every game.

 

Keeping the same team and tactics, against Villa.  Was always going to be a mistake IMO.  I know it is easy to say that in hindsight, but I think plenty of others on here, were suggesting we should be changing it up and probably starting Perez and Mitrovic. 

 

He's changed things before due to desperation.  In case you didn't notice, we were getting battered most weeks...  Not sure where we found the 'winning formula' beforehand?  Didn't we settle on the Gini and Sissoko wide, Perez behind Mitro, for quite a few games.  Due to a couple of half decent performances and also getting a win (s*** game against Bournemouth).  Mitrovic and Perez were dropped off the back of poor performances/defeats, after that. 

 

He even said pre-match that he was tempted to change it, but kept the winning team from the previous two weeks.  Cisse being injured and de Jong missing that sitter and generally doing f*** all the last two games, might be a blessing in disguise. 

 

That said, the tactics used against Liverpool and Spurs.  Might be more suited against Everton.  I still don't think I'd start Cisse, mind.

 

Maybe I'm being premature.  I just feel like if everyone is fit.  So long as we get a result.  We'll just persevere with the same team week in, week out.  Regardless of opposition or who is in form and showing up well off the bench.  Then we'll wait until a defeat or two.  To suddenly realise we've been figured out and not every team we play is the same.  It reminds me of Pardew so much.

[buzza]

I think Everton will do us, principally because Lukaku will think it's his birthday up against colo again. This type of striker always prevails against our weakling defence.

[Lush Vlad]

Yep.  Gestede gave Colo fits and he won pretty much everything in the air.  Quite glad he didn't start.

[The College Dropout]

Yep.  Gestede gave Colo fits and he won pretty much everything in the air.  Quite glad he didn't start.

 

And Chancel too tbf. There was a period where Gestede beat Chancel for the ball then moments later Chancel didn't even both to challenge Gestede in the air to the point Gestede was able to control it, bring it down , turn and pass with no player on him.I understand the tactic of "winning the second ball" and stepping off the player a bit but you simply can't let him do all of that. Whole team shit scared of the lad.