stozo Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 We all know Given and Harper are top class shot stoppers, but I don't think either of them can take us back to the level we are aiming for. There is one main reason why they will never be world class goalkeepers and why we have had and still have a lot of defensive problems, this reason is niether control the box. You watch a top, top keeper like Cech, any cross comes in to the box and he will snap it up. By my count 6 from 20 of the goals (30%) we have conceeded in all competitions this season have come from balls in the box which the goalkeeper or defenders have failed to deal with. Now I'm sure some of yuou are thinking how is the GK to blame for poor marking? I'd say he is partially to blame as on every single ball into the box the pressure is on the defender as he knows that no matter what niether Given or Harper is likely to come off their line to deal with it. A great example of this last year is with Cudicini, once Cech got injured Chelsea seemed unable to defend set pieces or crosses, that's no coincidence as Cudicini, like Given, never comes for balls and leaves it up to his defenders. Also just to add to the debate you have to say now is the time to get shot of Given. His groin is clearly fucked as shown by the numerous injuries he has sustained to it since his stomach operation last year. Sadly I don't think he'll ever be able to start games for a full season again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 Off your trolley springs to mind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willow Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 Off your trolley springs to mind. Exactly what I was thinking. No offense but I don't think I've ever agreed with anything you've ever said on here stozo, thats just me tho. Sadly I don't think he'll ever be able to start games for a full season again. Even if Given didn't start every game for a season, it brings him down to human levels as he's been like fucking superman for most of the time we've had him and with Harper filling in, no complaints from me whatsoever. We've got bigger priorities. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
junkhead Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 unseen priority.. you're clever, man Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 Last season, I identified Given's weaknesses as poor at dealing with balls in the box, having zero presence, no command of his area, and being a poor communicator. He certainly deserved a chance though at that stage based on the people in front of him, although I suggested that after our next defensive overhaul, if we were still having problems, Givens career at Newcastle should be put under scrutiny. Despite an extensive overhaul, bringing in players that are clearly better than the last lot, we have conceded more goals this season than we did in the same fixtures last season, and I haven't noticed an improved individual performance by Given, and he is the best of our two keepers. On that basis, I'd be happy to sell Given for a fair price if we could get someone like Jaaskelainen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LucaAltieri Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 Agree entirely. Given is a class stopper but he doesn't command the area like the best keepers. Its obvious Given's not going to be able to stay fit for a long run of games. Harper is a decent cover but with his own flaws. We do need to be looking for a new keeper next summer in my opinion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
junkhead Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 jesus, there's more of them.. what do you suggest, buy Cech and be done with it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 Last season, I identified Given's weaknesses as poor at dealing with balls in the box, having zero presence, no command of his area, and being a poor communicator. He certainly deserved a chance though at that stage based on the people in front of him, although I suggested that after our next defensive overhaul, if we were still having problems, Givens career at Newcastle should be put under scrutiny. Despite an extensive overhaul, bringing in players that are clearly better than the last lot, we have conceded more goals this season than we did in the same fixtures last season, and I haven't noticed an improved individual performance by Given, and he is the best of our two keepers. On that basis, I'd be happy to sell Given for a fair price if we could get someone like Jaaskelainen. I was just thinking you have a rival, you're doing your best to make sure he doesn't outshine you, well done. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 I can't think of any area of the team which needs less attention than the who stands between the sticks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leazes1986 Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 I tell you what a priority should be. A new bloody left back. When Enrique isn't playing for one reason or another it fucks the balance of our whole midfield up. Obviously a lot of the time it has been down to Big Sam bedding Enrique in for the first month, but he will suffer injuries and suspensions. A left back should be high up on the list or priorities. More so than another striker i would say. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Liam Liam O Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 I can't think of any area of the team which needs less attention than the who stands between the sticks. Exactly. Lets just sell everybody and be done with it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 I think Tim Krul will be a excellent goalkeeper and hes tall, wonder if he will be good enough at the top level and he might command the box? so we dont need to spend shit loads on a keeper Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 Exactly. Lets just sell everybody and be done with it. This thread has brightened up my day if nothing else. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Swift Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 I'd rather give Krul a chance in the unlikely event that both Harper and Given continue to concede soft goals before actually spending any cash which would be best served spent elsewhere. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LucaAltieri Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 I think Tim Krul will be a excellent goalkeeper and hes tall, wonder if he will be good enough at the top level and he might command the box? so we dont need to spend shit loads on a keeper Certainly a possibility. Like others have said, its not something we need to worry about right now. Definitely not a January window priority or anything. However I don't think you can argue that Given's fitness is a concern and we all know Harper isn't a world class or a long term option. Next summer we should be either bringing someone in to develop or evaluating Krul's progress. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 How is Krul doing at Falkirk these days? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest optimistic nit Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 Off your trolley springs to mind. aye. calls harper a top class keeper and given a keeper who can't get us back to the top all in one post. genius. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 Sam will bring in a keeper. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 Sam will bring in a keeper. I think he has greater priorities, I'd seriously doubt him if he wastes time on a keeper while we have so many other problems to sort out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 I tell you what a priority should be. A new bloody left back. When Enrique isn't playing for one reason or another it fucks the balance of our whole midfield up. Obviously a lot of the time it has been down to Big Sam bedding Enrique in for the first month, but he will suffer injuries and suspensions. A left back should be high up on the list or priorities. More so than another striker i would say. Really agree with this. A decent enough left-back (not too good so as not to jeapordise Enrique's progress ) on the cheap or on loan in January would be great. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest optimistic nit Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 Last season, I identified Given's weaknesses as poor at dealing with balls in the box, having zero presence, no command of his area, and being a poor communicator. He certainly deserved a chance though at that stage based on the people in front of him, although I suggested that after our next defensive overhaul, if we were still having problems, Givens career at Newcastle should be put under scrutiny. Despite an extensive overhaul, bringing in players that are clearly better than the last lot, we have conceded more goals this season than we did in the same fixtures last season, and I haven't noticed an improved individual performance by Given, and he is the best of our two keepers. On that basis, I'd be happy to sell Given for a fair price if we could get someone like Jaaskelainen. we've conceded 7 league goals in the 4 league games given has played in this season, and this is given unfit and off form, he has been much worse this season than he was last. when he gets back to his best (and he will) and our defence get to know each other this ratio will drop. "I'd happily sell Given for a fair price if we could get someone like Jaaskelainen" mackems.gif i don't know whats funnier, the levels of hypocracy you demonstrate by lambasting given's form this season (in 4 fucking games) yet reccomending Jussi, a goalkeeper who has been diabolical at times this season and has conceded 18 goals in 13 games, a ratio similar to given's or the phrase "someone like Jaaskelainen" which seems to imply jussi is the quality of keeper we should be aiming for, yet he isn't close to given in terms of ability. we have a new defensive partnership every week, and the defenders we have don't know each other yet. of course we are going to concede goals due to this early on, we've bought an entirely new defence. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest optimistic nit Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 How is Krul doing at Falkirk these days? not brilliantly, and even talking about him in this thread at his age is stupid. Falkirk have conceded 25 in 12. he did well in his first game, but conceded 4 against celtic then 7 against rangers not long after. 4 clean sheets so far, but according to soccernet he's made 72 saves in all competitions, a respectable total (although i think they are a bit liberal with what they classify as saves (coming for crosses counts to them i think)) and made a total of 21 "saves" in the 2 games against the old firm, which ties in what i heard at the time that it was diabolical defending that cost them the 7-2 defeat, not really bad keeping. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE5 Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 We all know Given and Harper are top class shot stoppers, but I don't think either of them can take us back to the level we are aiming for. There is one main reason why they will never be world class goalkeepers and why we have had and still have a lot of defensive problems, this reason is niether control the box. You watch a top, top keeper like Cech, any cross comes in to the box and he will snap it up. By my count 6 from 20 of the goals (30%) we have conceeded in all competitions this season have come from balls in the box which the goalkeeper or defenders have failed to deal with. Now I'm sure some of yuou are thinking how is the GK to blame for poor marking? I'd say he is partially to blame as on every single ball into the box the pressure is on the defender as he knows that no matter what niether Given or Harper is likely to come off their line to deal with it. A great example of this last year is with Cudicini, once Cech got injured Chelsea seemed unable to defend set pieces or crosses, that's no coincidence as Cudicini, like Given, never comes for balls and leaves it up to his defenders. Also just to add to the debate you have to say now is the time to get shot of Given. His groin is clearly fucked as shown by the numerous injuries he has sustained to it since his stomach operation last year. Sadly I don't think he'll ever be able to start games for a full season again. Good point, which has came up before. I don't think Newcastle United have ever had a truly top international class goalkeeper in the 40+ years I've supported the club. McFaul, Given, Pav........ maybe Harper ....... have all been good, but nobody among the best, the equivalent of Shearer, Beardsley, Gazza, Irving Nattrass, Tony Green etc etc. Roger Jones and Martin Burleigh both showed tremendous promise and both had the frame and ability to dominate their box, but for different reasons they both didn't last long in football. We will never know how good those 2 could have been. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinmk Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 Strongly disagree, Shay has been performing miracles for the team for years now and look at the defences he's had in front of him. Once we have a settled defence which will hopefully be sooner rather than later and they have played together for a while then there should be no problems in the box with Shay in goals. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Liam Liam O Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 Next thread - The Unseen Priority - Stadium expansion Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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