Nail your colours to the mast: Sack or No Sack?

[indi]

In a strange way the arrival of Ashley has become a millstone around SA's neck it really has been a lose - lose for him. He didn't get big money and at the same time expectations trebled.

 

Allardyce thanked Mort for giving him the most money he'd ever had to spend, or words to that effect.

 

Not saying that much though is it.

 

Didn't he spend something like £6m net?

[Incognito]

Id like us to keep him and not go down the Shepherd road,but in reality,i can't see where our next point is coming from.It is a results business and i think we'll see how strong Ashleys patience is.None of his signings look comfortable or look to have improved the team at all though.

[indi]

In a strange way the arrival of Ashley has become a millstone around SA's neck it really has been a lose - lose for him. He didn't get big money and at the same time expectations trebled.

 

Good point.

 

 

[Andy]

Get a room you two.

[Parky]

Get a room you two.

 

Blatantly jealous. 

[Mick]

 

Not saying that much though is it.

 

Didn't he spend something like £6m net?

 

It was more like £10 million but the main thing is that he got who he wanted.

[Parky]

 

Not saying that much though is it.

 

Didn't he spend something like £6m net?

 

It was more like £10 million but the main thing is that he got who he wanted.

 

How can you know that ?

 

In his situation in a new postion with a new boss he's bound to be diplomatic imo.

[Northern Monkey]

Its true that changing managers a lot does us no favours, but the simple, undeniable fact is taht if the manager is not good enough, sticking with him will NOT help one bit.

 

And Allardcy isn't good enough.

 

He's proven this for me through:

* Management of certain players

* Randomly putting players out of position

* Very very bad formation choices

* Very very bad tactical choices

* Bad player selections

* Bad substitutions

* Bad signings

* An inability to accept he's wromg and change

[Northern Monkey]

In a strange way the arrival of Ashley has become a millstone around SA's neck it really has been a lose - lose for him. He didn't get big money and at the same time expectations trebled.

 

Allardyce thanked Mort for giving him the most money he'd ever had to spend, or words to that effect.

 

Not saying that much though is it.

 

Didn't he spend something like £6m net?

 

But what did he SPEND, on players HE wanted?

[Mick]

 

How can you know that ?

 

In his situation in a new postion with a new boss he's bound to be diplomatic imo.

 

How diplomatic was he at first when he complained that things took too long or when he commented on the possibility of Keegan coming as Director of Football?

[Robster]

Sacking him now would cement our reputation as a revolving door club and the whole country wouldnt stop laughing.

Just got to roll with the punches at the minute.

 

Keep him.

keep him because of what other people would think ?

 

Keep him because we need some continuity.

They would be laughing because they would be right in thinking that our club and our fans are a joke.

[GM]

It's a toughie. The people who've been posting on here that we need to give him a chance to settle into the job and that the lack of consistency arising from the high turnover of managers at NUFC in recent years do have a fair point. But honestly, how anyone can defend Allardyce's performance today (and yes, there were some pretty shocking performances on the field too *cough*Smith*cough*) but it's the lack of any shape, the inability to keep the ball, keep possession and drive it forward with any real menace or meaning, and the lack of width was beyond a joke. I've seen the future, and I don't have much confidence in Allardyce now at all. Substititions that made absolutely no fucking sense at all. Emre off for Barton, Carr on for Enrique, and most bewildering and bemusing of all N'Zogbia off for Milner.

 

He doesn't know what he's doing and I tend to agree with HTL here - I think Allardyce is showing all the signs of a man who is way out of his depth. Get rid ASAP.

[Parky]

 

How can you know that ?

 

In his situation in a new postion with a new boss he's bound to be diplomatic imo.

 

How diplomatic was he at first when he complained that things took too long or when he commented on the possibility of Keegan coming as Director of Football?

 

Good point and it shows you can't take reactions to things in isolation without comparing them to other events.

 

The things taking too long bit I remember clearly and the 'strategic review' phase...Which I have an inkling was a holding position for MA and CM...And a sensible one at that... I can't put my finger on it but I also got the feeling having just arrived and SA not being their man they didn't really want to spend 40-50m off the bat which is understandable...But which might turn out to be a massive error.

 

TBH I haven't really come to the conclusion if SA himself was self-deluded enough to think that he'd got enough players or players of enough quality..I for one bitched on here for many weeks regarding getting an AM with a strong creative component.

 

In Jan all will be clear.

[madras]

Sacking him now would cement our reputation as a revolving door club and the whole country wouldnt stop laughing.

Just got to roll with the punches at the minute.

 

Keep him.

keep him because of what other people would think ?

 

Keep him because we need some continuity.

They would be laughing because they would be right in thinking that our club and our fans are a joke.

we've been a joke all season apart from everton,spurs at home and bolton away.

 

you'll find the sides with continuity do it from a position of strength,not many clubs sack a manager who is doing well.

[Robster]

It's a toughie. The people who've been posting on here that we need to give him a chance to settle into the job and that the lack of consistency arising from the high turnover of managers at NUFC in recent years do have a fair point. But honestly, how anyone can defend Allardyce's performance today (and yes, there were some pretty shocking performances on the field too *cough*Smith*cough*) but it's the lack of any shape, the inability to keep the ball, keep possession and drive it forward with any real menace or meaning, and the lack of width was beyond a joke. I've seen the future, and I don't have much confidence in Allardyce now at all. Substititions that made absolutely no fucking sense at all. Emre off for Barton, Carr on for Enrique, and most bewildering and bemusing of all N'Zogbia off for Milner.

 

He doesn't know what he's doing and I tend to agree with HTL here - I think Allardyce is showing all the signs of a man who is way out of his depth. Get rid ASAP.

 

For me, I agree that I have grave doubts over Allardyce now and agree that he may be out of his depth at a club with such resources and expectations such as ours but I am forcing myself to believe that now is the time to not act on impulse.

Who knows what the right decision is because football is such a fickle game, that we could win say 6 out of the next 10 and this board, and peoples opinions, will be totally different.

On the basis that I dont think we could get a real high quality manager, a la Mourinho (which if we are looking to replace Sam is the only way to appease the fans), we may as well have a go at the patience thing.

 

 

[madras]

i'd feel easier saying sack him if i felt confident in getting a suitable replacement

[Robster]

i'd feel easier saying sack him if i felt confident in getting a suitable replacement

 

thats the key to the whole argument. absolutely no point sacking him unless there is a realistic replacement lined up has a proven successful record.

Personally, i dont think we could possibly attract one right now

[indi]

 

Not saying that much though is it.

 

Didn't he spend something like £6m net?

 

It was more like £10 million but the main thing is that he got who he wanted.

 

Going by the figures on .com the net spend was £2.3m.

 

This doesn't include the purchase of Smith, or the sales of Dyer Luque and Solano, but even if we let those three go for free, which I don't think we did, we'd have had to shell out £7.7m on Smith to get the net up to £10m.

 

Even if he did spend a net £10m, that's not really a lot, considering what our competitors spent, the state of the squad he inherited and the fact that we also released 4 first-team players, 5 if you include Gooch.

 

Are you saying that Sam wouldn't have brought anyone else in if he was able to? I doubt that's true. He may well have got a few of the players he wanted, but I bet there were a whole host of others we/he missed out on, including some that he would have really thought vital to getting to where he wanted to be. He'd probably be the only manager in the history of the universe to not think that.

[Mick]

I feel the same as those concerned about what we could bring in that's why I'd give Allardyce until the summer.  That was he has a chance to show us something and if not we have time to bring in somebody better and I do think our club would be a draw for a better manager if we go about it right. 

[Guest K9]

I don't know like, he did say that we will go through some tough times and we will get through it

 

 

[James]

There is only one person I perceive as a realistic option who I could see coming here and doing better than Allardyce, and that is Gerard Houllier.

[indi]

In a strange way the arrival of Ashley has become a millstone around SA's neck it really has been a lose - lose for him. He didn't get big money and at the same time expectations trebled.

 

Allardyce thanked Mort for giving him the most money he'd ever had to spend, or words to that effect.

 

Not saying that much though is it.

 

Didn't he spend something like £6m net?

 

But what did he SPEND, on players HE wanted?

 

Erm:

 

Mark Viduka - Free

Joey Barton - £5.8M

David Rozenhal - £2.9M & £200K

Geremi - Free

Alan Smith - tbc

Cacapa - Free

Jose Enrique - £6m

Abdoulaye Faye - £2m

Habib Beye - £2m

 

 

And your point is??

[GM]

There is only one person I perceive as a realistic option who I could see coming here and doing better than Allardyce, and that is Gerard Houllier.

 

How very zany of you to say so.

[madras]

There is only one person I perceive as a realistic option who I could see coming here and doing better than Allardyce, and that is Gerard Houllier.

 

How very zany of you to say so.

if any manager is told there is an almost limitless transfer kitty then we can have almost anyone (it's the mourinho situation). is ashley prepared to do that and has he already put enough in ?

[Baggio]

Houllier would be an excellent choice tbf.