Joey Barton is a very naughty boy. Discuss.

[Dave]

Would there be a clause in a player's insurance that allows for issues like this?

[Mick]

Would there be a clause in a player's insurance that allows for issues like this?

 

I doubt it, it would be like insuring somebody with terminal cancer, it just wouldn't happen.

[Dave]

Would there be a clause in a player's insurance that allows for issues like this?

 

I doubt it, it would be like insuring somebody with terminal cancer, it just wouldn't happen.

 

Why couldn't a club insure a costly investment against things that may mean they lose that asset?

[Mick]

 

Why couldn't a club insure a costly investment against things that may mean they lose that asset?

 

Barton had a history of problems so I'm guessing that any insurer would have been aware of that, try phoning and insurance company and asking them to insure you for some super car, they'll almost certainly refuse.  Insurance companies want to make money so will do all they can to reduce the risk to them.

[Mick]

Dave,

 

You do have Michael Owen getting medical insurance on your side so I suppose it's not that clear cut.  

[Dave]

 

'Tis true though. Even with his previous record we got compensation for a serious unforeseen incident that took him out of the game completely for a long time. Why not with Barton?

[mrmojorisin75]

you'd really hope there was something wouldn't you?  his wages will be stopped obviously (if he goes down) but i'd expect there to be something in the fee payment agreement about it too

 

to think we'd be idiotic enough to give 5m out to man city for a player who was highly likely to get jail time makes me shudder

 

would be a new level of incompetance for the club

[madras]

Would there be a clause in a player's insurance that allows for issues like this?

 

I doubt it, it would be like insuring somebody with terminal cancer, it just wouldn't happen.

 

Why couldn't a club insure a costly investment against things that may mean they lose that asset?

the club probably could...if an insurance company would take on the risk (which in barton's case i doubt they would)

 

EDIT...sorry..mick just beat me to it (by 15 hrs)

[Greg]

At Liverpool Crown Court today.

[Minhosa]

At Liverpool Crown Court today.

 

Is this the hearing that could potentially send him down or is it some sort of preliminary hearing?

[STM]

At Liverpool Crown Court today.

 

Is this the hearing that could potentially send him down or is it some sort of preliminary hearing?

 

Aint until June he gets the verdict/sentence.

[Wullie]

The one in june is a different case. That's his trial for the attack on dabo. I realise it's hard to keep up with them all like.

[Guest guinness_fiend]

Would there be a clause in a player's insurance that allows for issues like this?

 

There will likely be a Termination clause in Barton's contract, which will likely take the (amended) form of the standard boiler plate clause as contained in normal contracts of employment.  The clause would, if properly drafted, allow for NUFC to unilaterally terminate the contract should Barton go to prison.

 

A basic Termination sub-clause might read as follows:

 

i.e. "The Employer reserves the right to terminate the Employee’s employment without pay or payment in lieu of notice if it has reasonable grounds to believe the Employee is guilty of gross misconduct".

 

In what is essentially a commercial contract, such as Barton's, the Termination clause would generally list everything and anything that could be caught (i.e. X.1 - imprisonment; X.2 - substance abuse, X.3 - gross misconduct as defined). 

 

The only issue with footballers is that they pay big money to specialist sports lawyers to ensure that any onerous clauses etc. are removed or have the edge taken off them.

[Baggio]

I can't see Barton getting his contract cancelled.

[toon25]

Would there be a clause in a player's insurance that allows for issues like this?

 

There will likely be a Termination clause in Barton's contract, which will likely take the (amended) form of the standard boiler plate clause as contained in normal contracts of employment.  The clause would, if properly drafted, allow for NUFC to unilaterally terminate the contract should Barton go to prison.

 

A basic Termination sub-clause might read as follows:

 

i.e. "The Employer reserves the right to terminate the Employee’s employment without pay or payment in lieu of notice if it has reasonable grounds to believe the Employee is guilty of gross misconduct".

 

In what is essentially a commercial contract, such as Barton's, the Termination clause would generally list everything and anything that could be caught (i.e. X.1 - imprisonment; X.2 - substance abuse, X.3 - gross misconduct as defined). 

 

The only issue with footballers is that they pay big money to specialist sports lawyers to ensure that any onerous clauses etc. are removed or have the edge taken off them.

 

Rather like the Chelsea / Mutu saga? Did they have to pay anything out to him or just let him go?

 

If Barton does go down, which is reasonable to expect, I don't think I could see KK getting rid, he seems to like him. If this is the case, would it be a matter of 'suspending' Barton's wages, so to speak, until his term is up OR would he continue to be paid?

 

[Guest guinness_fiend]

I can't see Barton getting his contract cancelled.

 

If such a Termination clause is in his contract, it would be.  The club may just cut its losses, salary wise.  The clause can account for anything you could possibly think of, so it might allow for termination of salary and immediate sale. 

 

At the end of the day, it is just speculation, but from a professional point of view - I would not allow a client to use a contract of employment, no matter how important the proposed employee is or could be, without including such a clause.

[Dokko]

He doesn't get paid while in jail, that's as far as it will go.

 

People cannot make money on the outside while in prison anyway iirc.

[Guest guinness_fiend]

Would there be a clause in a player's insurance that allows for issues like this?

 

There will likely be a Termination clause in Barton's contract, which will likely take the (amended) form of the standard boiler plate clause as contained in normal contracts of employment.  The clause would, if properly drafted, allow for NUFC to unilaterally terminate the contract should Barton go to prison.

 

A basic Termination sub-clause might read as follows:

 

i.e. "The Employer reserves the right to terminate the Employee’s employment without pay or payment in lieu of notice if it has reasonable grounds to believe the Employee is guilty of gross misconduct".

 

In what is essentially a commercial contract, such as Barton's, the Termination clause would generally list everything and anything that could be caught (i.e. X.1 - imprisonment; X.2 - substance abuse, X.3 - gross misconduct as defined). 

 

The only issue with footballers is that they pay big money to specialist sports lawyers to ensure that any onerous clauses etc. are removed or have the edge taken off them.

 

Rather like the Chelsea / Mutu saga? Did they have to pay anything out to him or just let him go?

 

If Barton does go down, which is reasonable to expect, I don't think I could see KK getting rid, he seems to like him. If this is the case, would it be a matter of 'suspending' Barton's wages, so to speak, until his term is up OR would he continue to be paid?

 

 

Without actually seeing the contract it is difficult to say but it would make sense and seems to marry up with what happened.

 

I would bet on suspension of pay plus immediate sale.  Depends on if the club want to exercise their right to do so though.  Barton looks like he could have turned the corner.  It is a tricky one to call.

 

If Barton goes to prison, which I hope he doesn't because I actually think that he is a decent player, the club would lose money due to (a) paying his salary (if not suspended); (b) negative publicity; and © depreciation of Barton's net worth as a footballer (i.e. personal reputation, baggage, high risk investment).

 

Let us not forget that in the grand scheme of things, unfortunately, NUFC is a business first and football club second.  The decision would be a purely commercial one and it would be made by the top brass. 

 

[Shearergol]

Would there be a clause in a player's insurance that allows for issues like this?

 

There will likely be a Termination clause in Barton's contract, which will likely take the (amended) form of the standard boiler plate clause as contained in normal contracts of employment.  The clause would, if properly drafted, allow for NUFC to unilaterally terminate the contract should Barton go to prison.

 

A basic Termination sub-clause might read as follows:

 

i.e. "The Employer reserves the right to terminate the Employee’s employment without pay or payment in lieu of notice if it has reasonable grounds to believe the Employee is guilty of gross misconduct".

 

In what is essentially a commercial contract, such as Barton's, the Termination clause would generally list everything and anything that could be caught (i.e. X.1 - imprisonment; X.2 - substance abuse, X.3 - gross misconduct as defined). 

 

The only issue with footballers is that they pay big money to specialist sports lawyers to ensure that any onerous clauses etc. are removed or have the edge taken off them.

 

Rather like the Chelsea / Mutu saga? Did they have to pay anything out to him or just let him go?

 

If Barton does go down, which is reasonable to expect, I don't think I could see KK getting rid, he seems to like him. If this is the case, would it be a matter of 'suspending' Barton's wages, so to speak, until his term is up OR would he continue to be paid?

 

 

Chelsea cancelled his contract without having to pay him compensation. They even got money for him when he moved to a new club. Strange situation really. I would have thought that as soon as they cancelled his contract they lost his player registration.

[Martin Lol]

He doesn't get paid while in jail, that's as far as it will go.

 

People cannot make money on the outside while in prison anyway iirc.

 

Apart from convicted rapists when they do the Lottery..................

[Shearergol]

He doesn't get paid while in jail, that's as far as it will go.

 

People cannot make money on the outside while in prison anyway iirc.

 

Apart from convicted rapists when they do the Lottery..................

 

And Lord Archer....

[Dokko]

He doesn't get paid while in jail, that's as far as it will go.

 

People cannot make money on the outside while in prison anyway iirc.

 

Apart from convicted rapists when they do the Lottery..................

 

tbf i thought KD won it after release?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dr Venkman]

sorry i haven't read the whole thread but does anyone know how long he might be looking at? considering the last few weeks i'd be sad to see him go down now, as an nufc fan of course, as a human being i think he deserves all he gets if guilty, but naturally being an nufc fan is more important than human moral issues

[Guest guinness_fiend]

sorry i haven't read the whole thread but does anyone know how long he might be looking at? considering the last few weeks i'd be sad to see him go down now, as an nufc fan of course, as a human being i think he deserves all he gets if guilty, but naturally being an nufc fan is more important than human moral issues

 

It depends on his priors and how well his barrister performs/performed during his plea in mitigation.  The plea in mitigation is basically a X min long arse kiss, where the representation for the accused attempts to convince that judge that "Joey has been a good boy and since the event he... has shown remorse... has done a lot of voluntary work, showing that he is a good man... has been a model professional... was provoked and it is not in his nature etc."

 

The more convincing the plea = the lesser the sentence (very rough rule of thumb)

 

If you are interested, here is a copy of the Magistrates 'Assault Against The Person' guidelines - see paragraph 12 for mitigating factors etc.  It is not as black and white as everyone makes out.

(http://www.sentencing-guidelines.gov.uk/docs/assault-against-the%20person.pdf)

[Mick]

Sacking Barton wouldn't be straight forward and would be harder to do than it would be to sack somebody who had taken drugs, especially performance enhancing drugs.  If we sacked Barton we could easily see the club in court to pay up his contract especially since we knew what he was like when we bought him, the offence he committed at Man City was even known about yet we still signed him.

 

The club could argue that Barton had brought the name of the club into disrepute, a lawyer for Barton would almost certainly say that we knew what we were getting when we bought him so we were happy to accept that Barton could do it again.

 

Here's some advice from a lawyer regarding sacking somebody who is in prison.

 

Be careful. Even though your employee has been convicted of an illegal act, you should still carry out such investigations as are reasonable in the circumstances before making any decision. Such investigations must be carried out promptly to ensure that any dismissal is fair.

 

If the employee's offence was related to his or her work, a dismissal would probably be fair on grounds of conduct. Alternatively, the circumstances of the imprisonment might be such as to reflect adversely on the image of your business, and/or destroy trust and confidence in the employee, which might count as 'some other substantial reason' for dismissal. But great care should be exercised and legal advice sought.

 

The fact that the employee is in prison and therefore cannot do his job is not in itself enough: it may 'frustrate' the contract, but as a general rule Employment Tribunals are reluctant to decide that the contract of employment has ended because of the employee's inability to perform it.