Martins

[ikri]

I'm quite surprised by how many people can't see why Martins is so important to us.

 

Thanks to his pace, his presence on the pitch means that the opposition needs to defend quite deeply, this gives us more time and space on the ball.  Even when he's playing poorly the opposition are generally aware that pushing up and providing space for Martins to run into is like playing russian roulette, the Blackburn game under Roeder is a great example of this - Blackburn pushed up the pitch, left loads of space and got slaughtered when Martins ran on to balls played in behind the defence.

 

Look at what happens when Martins goes off.  The opposition realise that there's no one with enough pace to easily beat them any more so they push up the pitch and we end up playing the rest of the game in and around our 18-yard box.  It wasn't just Tuesday night either, from his first game for us against Fulham, to last season away to Chelsea and countless others the same thing happens time and time again, we stop looking like any sort of a threat and either end up losing a game we were previously competitive in or we all sit watching the game gnawing our fingernails down to the knuckle as we wait for the referee to blow the final whistle.

 

Martins isn't the best striker in the game or even at the club but he's a very useful tool.

[merlin]

I have never(nor will)changed my mind about Martins ; in my opinion, he is NOT a top class striker, and wherever he plays, will struggle to get more than 10-15 goals a season.

 

Has pace, but very little tactical awareness of how to use it ; not big enough to hold the ball up front as a target man, and distribution is erratic ; has excellent athletic qualities, but not the footballing intelligence about how to use those qualities. Generally, he is not a player who has much awareness of his colleagues'

movements and this does not create opportunities for others to score goals rather than just him.

 

He WILL score some spectacular goals, but not enough tap-ins/opportunist efforts .

 

When Supermac joined NUFC in 1971, he was 21 years old ; many said he only had a good left peg, and a powerful shot ; also that he was unproven in the top division, reputedly the reason why Man U were slow to move for him....

By the time he was Martins' age, he was probably the most feared striker in the First division and had scored 30 goals in his first season, helping Newcastle to avoid relegation.

Yes , he had Hibbitt and Tony Green to give him ammunition, and Tudor(a willing workhorse) to draw defenders off him, but he still improved ALL aspects of his game, from heading to using his right foot.

Much of this also applies to Owen, who was an established Prem striker by the age of 19.

 

Martins has NOT shown anything like that improvement in his time at Newcastle and in my opinion, won't.

In fact, if I was given the choice of a 26 year old David Kelly, or Martins, I would take Kelly - he would offer far more to the team all round.

 

However, I DO accept that he is the best we are likely to get for some time, and until a better player is prepared to join NUFC, they have to make the best use of him, and his comittment to the club seems good.

 

Love the way you write half a page listing all of Martins faults but at the end grudgingly admit we still need him

 

Love the way you ignore the fact that beggars can't be choosers - that is what I was saying, and NUFC ARE beggars in today's Prem ; IF Martins scores 20 goals and saves us from relegation, THEN I may agree he is a top Prem striker...Do you see this happening ? Right now, we even need Ameobi , but only because we have nobody else..get the picture..!??

 

[KaKa]

I have never(nor will)changed my mind about Martins ; in my opinion, he is NOT a top class striker, and wherever he plays, will struggle to get more than 10-15 goals a season.

 

Has pace, but very little tactical awareness of how to use it ; not big enough to hold the ball up front as a target man, and distribution is erratic ; has excellent athletic qualities, but not the footballing intelligence about how to use those qualities. Generally, he is not a player who has much awareness of his colleagues'

movements and this does not create opportunities for others to score goals rather than just him.

 

He WILL score some spectacular goals, but not enough tap-ins/opportunist efforts .

 

When Supermac joined NUFC in 1971, he was 21 years old ; many said he only had a good left peg, and a powerful shot ; also that he was unproven in the top division, reputedly the reason why Man U were slow to move for him....

By the time he was Martins' age, he was probably the most feared striker in the First division and had scored 30 goals in his first season, helping Newcastle to avoid relegation.

Yes , he had Hibbitt and Tony Green to give him ammunition, and Tudor(a willing workhorse) to draw defenders off him, but he still improved ALL aspects of his game, from heading to using his right foot.

Much of this also applies to Owen, who was an established Prem striker by the age of 19.

 

Martins has NOT shown anything like that improvement in his time at Newcastle and in my opinion, won't.

In fact, if I was given the choice of a 26 year old David Kelly, or Martins, I would take Kelly - he would offer far more to the team all round.

 

However, I DO accept that he is the best we are likely to get for some time, and until a better player is prepared to join NUFC, they have to make the best use of him, and his comittment to the club seems good.

 

Love the way you write half a page listing all of Martins faults but at the end grudgingly admit we still need him

 

Love the way you ignore the fact that beggars can't be choosers - that is what I was saying, and NUFC ARE beggars in today's Prem ; IF Martins scores 20 goals and saves us from relegation, THEN I may agree he is a top Prem striker...Do you see this happening ? Right now, we even need Ameobi , but only because we have nobody else..get the picture..!??

 

 

I don't think anyone is arguing he is a top prem striker as he has a ways to go before we can say that.

 

However, to claim, as some have done, that he is no good is just silly. He is certainly one of our most useful players.

[Dave]

I'm quite surprised by how many people can't see why Martins is so important to us.

 

Thanks to his pace, his presence on the pitch means that the opposition needs to defend quite deeply, this gives us more time and space on the ball.  Even when he's playing poorly the opposition are generally aware that pushing up and providing space for Martins to run into is like playing russian roulette, the Blackburn game under Roeder is a great example of this - Blackburn pushed up the pitch, left loads of space and got slaughtered when Martins ran on to balls played in behind the defence.

 

Look at what happens when Martins goes off.  The opposition realise that there's no one with enough pace to easily beat them any more so they push up the pitch and we end up playing the rest of the game in and around our 18-yard box.  It wasn't just Tuesday night either, from his first game for us against Fulham, to last season away to Chelsea and countless others the same thing happens time and time again, we stop looking like any sort of a threat and either end up losing a game we were previously competitive in or we all sit watching the game gnawing our fingernails down to the knuckle as we wait for the referee to blow the final whistle.

 

Martins isn't the best striker in the game or even at the club but he's a very useful tool.

 

Good post.

[Ronaldo]

I'm quite surprised by how many people can't see why Martins is so important to us.

 

Thanks to his pace, his presence on the pitch means that the opposition needs to defend quite deeply, this gives us more time and space on the ball.  Even when he's playing poorly the opposition are generally aware that pushing up and providing space for Martins to run into is like playing russian roulette, the Blackburn game under Roeder is a great example of this - Blackburn pushed up the pitch, left loads of space and got slaughtered when Martins ran on to balls played in behind the defence.

 

Look at what happens when Martins goes off.  The opposition realise that there's no one with enough pace to easily beat them any more so they push up the pitch and we end up playing the rest of the game in and around our 18-yard box.  It wasn't just Tuesday night either, from his first game for us against Fulham, to last season away to Chelsea and countless others the same thing happens time and time again, we stop looking like any sort of a threat and either end up losing a game we were previously competitive in or we all sit watching the game gnawing our fingernails down to the knuckle as we wait for the referee to blow the final whistle.

 

Martins isn't the best striker in the game or even at the club but he's a very useful tool.

 

Good post.

 

ruined by the last line tbh. Dont see any striker at the club as effective as Martins tbf

[ikri]

 

Good post.

 

ruined by the last line tbh. Dont see any striker at the club as effective as Martins tbf

I believe that Owen & Viduka are more natural finishers, not necessarily more effective just technically better.

[Skirge]

 

Good post.

 

ruined by the last line tbh. Dont see any striker at the club as effective as Martins tbf

I believe that Owen & Viduka are more natural finishers, not necessarily more effective just technically better.

 

Viduka is a more natural eater, Owen a more natural finisher aye, Viduka only finishes a meal thats it!

[Gallowgate Toon]

 

Good post.

 

ruined by the last line tbh. Dont see any striker at the club as effective as Martins tbf

I believe that Owen & Viduka are more natural finishers, not necessarily more effective just technically better.

I think Martins is the one who knows where the goal is the best when on the pitch, like his turn and shot against the mackems.

[Guest]

 

Good post.

 

ruined by the last line tbh. Dont see any striker at the club as effective as Martins tbf

I believe that Owen & Viduka are more natural finishers, not necessarily more effective just technically better.

I think Martins is the one who knows where the goal is the best when on the pitch, like his turn and shot against the mackems.

 

The one that missed by a mile would that be?

[Syrette]

I'm quite surprised by how many people can't see why Martins is so important to us.

 

Thanks to his pace, his presence on the pitch means that the opposition needs to defend quite deeply, this gives us more time and space on the ball.  Even when he's playing poorly the opposition are generally aware that pushing up and providing space for Martins to run into is like playing russian roulette, the Blackburn game under Roeder is a great example of this - Blackburn pushed up the pitch, left loads of space and got slaughtered when Martins ran on to balls played in behind the defence.

 

Look at what happens when Martins goes off.  The opposition realise that there's no one with enough pace to easily beat them any more so they push up the pitch and we end up playing the rest of the game in and around our 18-yard box.  It wasn't just Tuesday night either, from his first game for us against Fulham, to last season away to Chelsea and countless others the same thing happens time and time again, we stop looking like any sort of a threat and either end up losing a game we were previously competitive in or we all sit watching the game gnawing our fingernails down to the knuckle as we wait for the referee to blow the final whistle.

 

Martins isn't the best striker in the game or even at the club but he's a very useful tool.

 

Good post.

 

ruined by the last line tbh. Dont see any striker at the club as effective as Martins tbf

 

Owen is in terms of goals scored.

[junkhead]

soon the nation's favorite honest pro will fuck off and hopefully the absurd comparison won't surface anymore here

[TRon]

I have never(nor will)changed my mind about Martins ; in my opinion, he is NOT a top class striker, and wherever he plays, will struggle to get more than 10-15 goals a season.

 

Has pace, but very little tactical awareness of how to use it ; not big enough to hold the ball up front as a target man, and distribution is erratic ; has excellent athletic qualities, but not the footballing intelligence about how to use those qualities. Generally, he is not a player who has much awareness of his colleagues'

movements and this does not create opportunities for others to score goals rather than just him.

 

He WILL score some spectacular goals, but not enough tap-ins/opportunist efforts .

 

When Supermac joined NUFC in 1971, he was 21 years old ; many said he only had a good left peg, and a powerful shot ; also that he was unproven in the top division, reputedly the reason why Man U were slow to move for him....

By the time he was Martins' age, he was probably the most feared striker in the First division and had scored 30 goals in his first season, helping Newcastle to avoid relegation.

Yes , he had Hibbitt and Tony Green to give him ammunition, and Tudor(a willing workhorse) to draw defenders off him, but he still improved ALL aspects of his game, from heading to using his right foot.

Much of this also applies to Owen, who was an established Prem striker by the age of 19.

 

Martins has NOT shown anything like that improvement in his time at Newcastle and in my opinion, won't.

In fact, if I was given the choice of a 26 year old David Kelly, or Martins, I would take Kelly - he would offer far more to the team all round.

 

However, I DO accept that he is the best we are likely to get for some time, and until a better player is prepared to join NUFC, they have to make the best use of him, and his comittment to the club seems good.

 

Love the way you write half a page listing all of Martins faults but at the end grudgingly admit we still need him

 

Love the way you ignore the fact that beggars can't be choosers - that is what I was saying, and NUFC ARE beggars in today's Prem ; IF Martins scores 20 goals and saves us from relegation, THEN I may agree he is a top Prem striker...Do you see this happening ? Right now, we even need Ameobi , but only because we have nobody else..get the picture..!??

 

 

I don't think anyone is arguing he is a top prem striker as he has a ways to go before we can say that.

 

However, to claim, as some have done, that he is no good is just silly. He is certainly one of our most useful players.

 

Exactly. Obviously I'd prefer Tevez or Adebayor but given the standard of most of our players I always find it strange when people keep moaning about Martins faults. When we spend £20m on a top class striker I'll be the first one to say he should be dropped, until then I'm quite glad he's here.

[ElDiablo]

I'd like to see him get as much criticism as every other player and for this absurd love affair people have for him to end. It's like listening to a parent at an under 10's match talking about their kids team, as soon as the topic comes around to their kid the barriers come up and they can do no wrong. Open your fucking eyes and stop using everything and anything to protect him and be as ready to pick out his faults as you are for every other player. 

[TRon]

I'd like to see him get as much criticism as every other player and for this absurd love affair people have for him to end. It's like listening to a parent at an under 10's match talking about their kids team, as soon as the topic comes around to their kid the barriers come up and they can do no wrong. Open your fucking eyes and stop using everything and anything to protect him and be as ready to pick out his faults as you are for every other player. 

 

If he didn't have those faults he'd be worth £30m...I doubt we'd have been able to buy him for £10m.

[Skeletor]

I'd like to see him get as much criticism as every other player and for this absurd love affair people have for him to end. It's like listening to a parent at an under 10's match talking about their kids team, as soon as the topic comes around to their kid the barriers come up and they can do no wrong. Open your f***ing eyes and stop using everything and anything to protect him and be as ready to pick out his faults as you are for every other player. 

 

Is this the part where the father runs you over with his car?

[Yorkie]

How dare fans' favourites exist!

[Gallowgate Toon]

 

Good post.

 

ruined by the last line tbh. Dont see any striker at the club as effective as Martins tbf

I believe that Owen & Viduka are more natural finishers, not necessarily more effective just technically better.

I think Martins is the one who knows where the goal is the best when on the pitch, like his turn and shot against the mackems.

 

The one that missed by a mile would that be?

Oh you mean the one that missed by 4 yards, yeah a real mile that one, do you know how hard that is to do? Turn 180 degrees without looking at the goal get power into it and get it close never mind in, can you honestly see Owen do that or Viduka? i can't, last person i saw do that was Henry against Man U.

[ElDiablo]

How dare fans' favourites exist!

 

He's done nothing worthy of being one. Jonas is becoming one and rightly so if he keeps up performing as he has this season.

[johnnypd]

How dare fans' favourites exist!

 

He's done nothing worthy of being one. Jonas is becoming one and rightly so if he keeps up performing as he has this season.

 

yup, so many goals and assists from Jonas, whereas Martins hasn't scored or made any goals yet.

 

oops wrong way round.

 

on a serious note - fucking hell, really shows how fickle we can be. one player who has looked promising so far but hasn't quite delivered yet is 'rightly so' becoming a fan's favourite yet one of our best players over the past 2 seasons has done nothing worthy. god forbid our fans should actually like one of our players, not least one who is, despite his flaws, so crucially important to our side. pushing him up front at half time in the birmingham game last season transformed us as a team and effectively kept us up, 2nd time in two years his contribution has done so.

[ElDiablo]

Sigh. I dunno, seems I'm flogging a dead horse here. Agree to disagree and all that.

[Yorkie]

How dare fans' favourites exist!

 

He's done nothing worthy of being one. Jonas is becoming one and rightly so if he keeps up performing as he has this season.

 

That's a load of toss imo, but irrelevant anyway.

 

If we treated every player in the squad like we do Martins, i reckon we'd win more games than we do. What's your problem with it, honestly?

 

EDIT: Ok, agree to disagree.

[johnnypd]

Sigh. I dunno, seems I'm flogging a dead horse here. Agree to disagree and all that.

 

fair enough. i can see where you are coming from, as there's players i slate that others seem to love, but persoanlly i dont have a problem with our fans defending our players. Like HTL defending Smith or Gejon defending Milner - good for them, they're more forgiving than me.

[KaKa]

 

 

I'd like to see him get as much criticism as every other player and for this absurd love affair people have for him to end. It's like listening to a parent at an under 10's match talking about their kids team, as soon as the topic comes around to their kid the barriers come up and they can do no wrong. Open your f***ing eyes and stop using everything and anything to protect him and be as ready to pick out his faults as you are for every other player. 

 

El Diablo he will never be critisized in the same way because of the way he approaches the games.

 

For example the absurd cross he hit the other night, yes it was terrible, but you still had to appreciate the burst of energy and pace he used to get into that position in the first place. Also, after he mishit the ball, he looked devastated.

 

The thing is, no one can question his effort and desire out on the pitch and his performance clearly matters to him. Also, no one can question the fact that he is, for the most part, very exciting to watch. Therefore even when he makes mistakes it's all a lot more bearable than most others on our team, who tend to look like their going through the motions when they aren't having the best of times out there.

[ElDiablo]

I say rightly so because 90% of the time Jonas gets the ball he keeps it and creates something positive. This after everything that's gone on recently it would have been very easy to hide like some have. He also has the defensive side of his game up to scratch. That sort of player should be held in higher regard, not someone who makes the oppositions defence defend deeper and who 'might' score a beauty next game despite not for a couple of years.

[Yorkie]

I say rightly so because 90% of the time Jonas gets the ball he keeps it and creates something positive. This after everything that's gone on recently it would have been very easy to hide like some have. He also has the defensive side of his game up to scratch. That sort of player should be held in higher regard, not someone who makes the oppositions defence defend deeper and who 'might' score a beauty next game despite not for a couple of years.

 

What, so that's the reason why the fans love him? Come off it man. That's not all he's got in his locker, and i think the vast majority know that. When he's gone, people will pin the Tottenham goal on him as 'the moment', but as you say, he hasn't scored a mega-goal since then. He got double figures last season without doing so. People appreciate his pace, his energy and his unpredictableness, and the fact that he scores goals, regardless of how they go in. They love his character too, i know i do.