The Kevin Keegan debate

[Mick]

 

 

Another post where you say absolutely nothing. Well done.

 

mackems.gif

[Baggio]

Back where we started. If not for going PLC he would never have left. FACT. I'm pleased you have finally got rid of that avatar, but it should have been an avatar of the Halls.

 

Have you read his book?

 

He says the reason he wanted to leave was because he felt he couldn't motivate the players anymore, he spoke to Terry Mac about it and got the impression that Terry thought he was right, he then spoke to Freddie Fletcher about it with a 'heavy heart' and Fletcher said that he too had doubts that Keegan could take them to the next stage.

 

Fletcher set up a meeting with him and the rest of the board and Keegan told them his views, they then agreed he would stay on until the end of the season which was best for everyone, he ended up leaving sooner though because the PLC wasn't happy about floating with uncertainty over the managers job, they gave him the ultimatum to either sign a contract extension or leave now so he walked.

 

To say he would never have left if the club hadn't of become a PLC is wrong, he would of left still just at the end of the season.

[Guest elbee909]

Back where we started. If not for going PLC he would never have left. FACT. I'm pleased you have finally got rid of that avatar, but it should have been an avatar of the Halls.

 

Have you read his book?

 

He says the reason he wanted to leave was because he felt he couldn't motivate the players anymore, he spoke to Terry Mac about it and got the impression that Terry thought he was right, he then spoke to Freddie Fletcher about it with a 'heavy heart' and Fletcher said that he too had doubts that Keegan could take them to the next stage.

 

Fletcher set up a meeting with him and the rest of the board and Keegan told them his views, they then agreed he would stay on until the end of the season which was best for everyone, he ended up leaving sooner though because the PLC wasn't happy about floating with uncertainty over the managers job, they gave him the ultimatum to either sign a contract extension or leave now so he walked.

 

To say he would never have left if the club hadn't of become a PLC is wrong, he would of left still just at the end of the season.

 

But he said 'FACT'.  How can one argue with that?

[9]

Back where we started. If not for going PLC he would never have left. FACT. I'm pleased you have finally got rid of that avatar, but it should have been an avatar of the Halls.

 

Have you read his book?

 

He says the reason he wanted to leave was because he felt he couldn't motivate the players anymore, he spoke to Terry Mac about it and got the impression that Terry thought he was right, he then spoke to Freddie Fletcher about it with a 'heavy heart' and Fletcher said that he too had doubts that Keegan could take them to the next stage.

 

Fletcher set up a meeting with him and the rest of the board and Keegan told them his views, they then agreed he would stay on until the end of the season which was best for everyone, he ended up leaving sooner though because the PLC wasn't happy about floating with uncertainty over the managers job, they gave him the ultimatum to either sign a contract extension or leave now so he walked.

 

To say he would never have left if the club hadn't of become a PLC is wrong, he would of left still just at the end of the season.

 

I dont think you can knock Keegan leaving for those reasons, that team had took a big hit losing the title and the money wasnt there do build a new team.

[johnnypd]

did keegan not offer to quit on multiple occasions? had he stayed till the end of the season there's no telling what would've happened tbh. my mum met him at some event a few months after and he said it was down to (in his words) "the bastards upstairs".

[Optimistic Nut]

did keegan not offer to quit on multiple occasions? had he stayed till the end of the season there's no telling what would've happened tbh. my mum met him at some event a few months after and he said it was down to (in his words) "the bastards upstairs".

 

Had he stayed until the end of the season I seriously doubt we'd have finished 2nd that season.

[BONTEMPI]

Will Keegan be able to adapt to the new premiership which changed dramatically after the arrival of Mourhino? If Keegan gets us playing like he did in the 90s my bet is that he still wouldnt get u into the top5 or 6, becasue the defensive organisation of teams has changed so much.

 

I can see his brand of football making mince meat of lower teams out there, but will the tactically adept and organzied teams such as Chelsea Arsenal etc succumb to our football. My opinion is no.

 

The game is a lot less open and teams have a "containing" style which is a completely new style.

 

Will Keegan be able to adapt? I personally am not sure, but i have to admit that this is truly a golden time for nufc fans only. I say this cautiously becasue i was very optimistic with Allardyce.

 

To be fair to the owners they've probably made a smart choice becasue whilst not the most ambitious appointment, it truly is one of the most inspirational appointments.

 

I love these cliches where people say football has "changed".

 

I didn't realise that the goals were bigger, or teams played with more players .............. 

 

I agree it's bullshit, it's not changed one bit!

 

The only thing that's different is teams and managers over complicating the game instead of keeping it nice and simple.

[9]

Will Keegan be able to adapt to the new premiership which changed dramatically after the arrival of Mourhino? If Keegan gets us playing like he did in the 90s my bet is that he still wouldnt get u into the top5 or 6, becasue the defensive organisation of teams has changed so much.

 

I can see his brand of football making mince meat of lower teams out there, but will the tactically adept and organzied teams such as Chelsea Arsenal etc succumb to our football. My opinion is no.

 

The game is a lot less open and teams have a "containing" style which is a completely new style.

 

Will Keegan be able to adapt? I personally am not sure, but i have to admit that this is truly a golden time for nufc fans only. I say this cautiously becasue i was very optimistic with Allardyce.

 

To be fair to the owners they've probably made a smart choice becasue whilst not the most ambitious appointment, it truly is one of the most inspirational appointments.

 

I love these cliches where people say football has "changed".

 

I didn't realise that the goals were bigger, or teams played with more players .............. 

 

I agree it's bullshit, it's not changed one bit!

 

The only thing that's different is teams and managers over complicating the game instead of keeping it nice and simple.

 

You would think Keegan had been out the game for 30 years the way some people are talking, Wasnt Keegans Man City team the first to beat Mourinho's Chelsea?

[Gallowgate End]

"tactical awareness" = biggest most overhyped phrase in football, used to signify needless tinkering and muddling around by managers, peddled by the press.

 

Play to strengths = "tactical awareness"

 

 

Its a fantastic point could not agree more.

 

[macca888]

NE5

 

You must fancy me, or something because you seem to be obsessed with my viewpoints.

 

Correct me if I am wrong:

 

Did Keegan say this week that the reason he has come bck is because he has unfinished business? HE WANTS TO WIN SOMETHING.

 

Correct me if I am wrong:

 

DID HE WIN ANYTHING LAST TIME?

 

Correct me if I am wrong;

 

Would Ferguson, Mourinho, Wenger, Benitez be happy playing exciting football and winning nothing for 5 (FIVE) Years. NO, you know they wouldnt because they wouldnt be happy with second best. Neither is KK by the way. That is why he has come back................TO WIN SOMETHING, TO BE A SUCCESS, SOMETHING HE HASNT DONE ANYWHERE ELSE.

 

Or, would you still be content to sit back and watch exciting football whilst finishing 2nd all the time?

 

I hope he succeeds and he will be given enough money to succeed. However, like many others on here, I dont think he will last. He looks knackered already and he has only been back 2 days.

 

As for southern journos comment, dont be such a silly little tart.,

 

 

[NE5]

NE5

 

You must fancy me, or something because you seem to be obsessed with my viewpoints.

 

Correct me if I am wrong:

 

Did Keegan say this week that the reason he has come bck is because he has unfinished business? HE WANTS TO WIN SOMETHING.

 

Correct me if I am wrong:

 

DID HE WIN ANYTHING LAST TIME?

 

Correct me if I am wrong;

 

Would Ferguson, Mourinho, Wenger, Benitez be happy playing exciting football and winning nothing for 5 (FIVE) Years. NO, you know they wouldnt because they wouldnt be happy with second best. Neither is KK by the way. That is why he has come back................TO WIN SOMETHING, TO BE A SUCCESS, SOMETHING HE HASNT DONE ANYWHERE ELSE.

 

Or, would you still be content to sit back and watch exciting football whilst finishing 2nd all the time?

 

I hope he succeeds and he will be given enough money to succeed. However, like many others on here, I dont think he will last. He looks knackered already and he has only been back 2 days.

 

As for southern journos comment, dont be such a silly little tart.,

 

 

 

Macca has spent YEARS trying to tell me that Keegan failed because he won nowt, lost a 12 point lead, is "tactically naive", only spent loads of money, had a team with a bad defence, and anyone with the money he had could have done what he did and with the money he had should have won something.

 

Whenever I have took him up on these comments, he has always spouted these things, regularly spouted by the cockney journos whos issues of papers he must be reading down under. Despite ALL the managers who have succeeded him failing to get anywhere near challenging for the title or matching him, he staunchly still says that Keegan still "failed" and has absolutely no idea of what a state the club was in before Keegan took over the first time. Most laughinly of all, he actually supported Souness' attempts to rid the club of the "cancer" and actually appeared to be optimistic that even he would emulate the "tactically naive" Keegan. The 2 links are all that are available now on the server but are still enough to show what ridiculous "opinion" he peddles here.....which is the same no nothing about the club garbage spouted by the pressmen that he's been reading all these years.

 

The section I have put in bold, proves conclusively that he STILL has no idea whatsoever of where the club was when Keegan took over. And won't even take it on board despite me pointing it out to him on numerous occasions. What a joke he is.

 

http://www.newcastle-online.com/nufcforum/index.php?topic=21116.msg390696#msg390696

 

http://www.newcastle-online.com/nufcforum/index.php?topic=25643.msg484003#msg484003

 

 

[madras]

and i'd still rather come 2nd in the league than win the FA cup

[madras]

in fact i'd rather finish in the top 4 than win the FA cup

[James]

and i'd still rather come 2nd in the league than win the FA cup

 

I'd rather come second and win the FA cup.

[madras]

and i'd still rather come 2nd in the league than win the FA cup

 

I'd rather come second and win the FA cup.

would be nice but one or t'other was the point.

[NE5]

Back where we started. If not for going PLC he would never have left. FACT. I'm pleased you have finally got rid of that avatar, but it should have been an avatar of the Halls.

 

Have you read his book?

 

He says the reason he wanted to leave was because he felt he couldn't motivate the players anymore, he spoke to Terry Mac about it and got the impression that Terry thought he was right, he then spoke to Freddie Fletcher about it with a 'heavy heart' and Fletcher said that he too had doubts that Keegan could take them to the next stage.

 

Fletcher set up a meeting with him and the rest of the board and Keegan told them his views, they then agreed he would stay on until the end of the season which was best for everyone, he ended up leaving sooner though because the PLC wasn't happy about floating with uncertainty over the managers job, they gave him the ultimatum to either sign a contract extension or leave now so he walked.

 

To say he would never have left if the club hadn't of become a PLC is wrong, he would of left still just at the end of the season.

 

I dont think you can knock Keegan leaving for those reasons, that team had took a big hit losing the title and the money wasnt there do build a new team.

 

The influence of a man called Mark Corbridge, brought in as part of the listing of the club, which was obviously decided by the major shareholders, played a big part in keegans disillusionment, he says so in his book.

 

 

[fredbob]

Will Keegan be able to adapt to the new premiership which changed dramatically after the arrival of Mourhino? If Keegan gets us playing like he did in the 90s my bet is that he still wouldnt get u into the top5 or 6, becasue the defensive organisation of teams has changed so much.

 

I can see his brand of football making mince meat of lower teams out there, but will the tactically adept and organzied teams such as Chelsea Arsenal etc succumb to our football. My opinion is no.

 

The game is a lot less open and teams have a "containing" style which is a completely new style.

 

Will Keegan be able to adapt? I personally am not sure, but i have to admit that this is truly a golden time for nufc fans only. I say this cautiously becasue i was very optimistic with Allardyce.

 

To be fair to the owners they've probably made a smart choice becasue whilst not the most ambitious appointment, it truly is one of the most inspirational appointments.

 

I love these cliches where people say football has "changed".

 

I didn't realise that the goals were bigger, or teams played with more players .............. 

 

What a surprise, NE5 with a pathetic attempt at a dig at someone who has a different opinion, mate you're so pathetic its unreal, grow up and take the statement as it was attempted.

 

Do you think football is exactly the same as it was then? I dont, ever since the likes of Allardyce and Mourihoin came on the secene, in my eyes the game took a different outlook, teams are incredibly organized, and the whole "containing" mentality came into play, i dont ever remeber seeing a team having a containing mentality, i remeber the days when Derby would go and try and outplay Man U and actually come out with 3 ponts, that would never happen in the modern era, never will. Draw your own conclusions?

 

The lack of organisation in defense was one of keys reasons that i cite as being one where Keegan old style of football may not be entirely successful. Do you think the likes of Bruce and Pallister in there prime hold a flame to Ferdinand and Vidic or Terry and Carhvallo in their prime. Persoannly i dont think so.

 

There is a reason for that, a more scientific approach is required in the game, but no too much, the days where the whole "get stuck in lads" way of coaching doesnt work, its the primary reason why i dont think there are many good British managers.

 

It just an opinion NE5, in future if you dont accept it or understand it just ignore it   , petty retort make you look like an idiot.

 

Ill be honest, im very optimistic about Keegan, he could be just what the club needs, and the buzz around the club is like nothing ive seen before, he wouldnt of been my first choice personally but i will support him 100% of the way.

 

 

[madras]

he has a point thogh..what has dramatically changed in football over the past 3 years ?

 

the teams who are doing well are playing the same style,pass and move with the best players. it's not like a shift fron 3-2-5 has occurred.

 

you reckon 3 years ago the likes of derby would have tried to outplasy man utd ?

 

containment is new....think liverpool in the 70's ?

[NE5]

Will Keegan be able to adapt to the new premiership which changed dramatically after the arrival of Mourhino? If Keegan gets us playing like he did in the 90s my bet is that he still wouldnt get u into the top5 or 6, becasue the defensive organisation of teams has changed so much.

 

I can see his brand of football making mince meat of lower teams out there, but will the tactically adept and organzied teams such as Chelsea Arsenal etc succumb to our football. My opinion is no.

 

The game is a lot less open and teams have a "containing" style which is a completely new style.

 

Will Keegan be able to adapt? I personally am not sure, but i have to admit that this is truly a golden time for nufc fans only. I say this cautiously becasue i was very optimistic with Allardyce.

 

To be fair to the owners they've probably made a smart choice becasue whilst not the most ambitious appointment, it truly is one of the most inspirational appointments.

 

I love these cliches where people say football has "changed".

 

I didn't realise that the goals were bigger, or teams played with more players .............. 

 

What a surprise, NE5 with a pathetic attempt at a dig at someone who has a different opinion, mate you're so pathetic its unreal, grow up and take the statement as it was attempted.

 

Do you think football is exactly the same as it was then? I dont, ever since the likes of Allardyce and Mourihoin came on the secene, in my eyes the game took a different outlook, teams are incredibly organized, and the whole "containing" mentality came into play, i dont ever remeber seeing a team having a containing mentality, i remeber the days when Derby would go and try and outplay Man U and actually come out with 3 ponts, that would never happen in the modern era, never will. Draw your own conclusions?

 

The lack of organisation in defense was one of keys reasons that i cite as being one where Keegan old style of football may not be entirely successful. Do you think the likes of Bruce and Pallister in there prime hold a flame to Ferdinand and Vidic or Terry and Carhvallo in their prime. Persoannly i dont think so.

 

There is a reason for that, a more scientific approach is required in the game, but no too much, the days where the whole "get stuck in lads" way of coaching doesnt work, its the primary reason why i dont think there are many good British managers.

 

It just an opinion NE5, in future if you dont accept it or understand it just ignore it   , petty retort make you look like an idiot.

 

Ill be honest, im very optimistic about Keegan, he could be just what the club needs, and the buzz around the club is like nothing ive seen before, he wouldnt of been my first choice personally but i will support him 100% of the way.

 

 

Nowts changed I'm afraid. Talented players playing with a positive attitude to their strengths will beat muddled tactics anytime.

 

How anyone can defend this having suffered the crap "tactics" under Souness, and sadly Roeder and Allardyce because at least they tried to do right for the club, is beyond me.

 

Well, if you didn't see the first time around, I have a sneaking feeling that you may be on the brink of another u-turn to match the last one, especially when you see the quality of players he brings in once he starts spending some money and setting different standards to what you are used to.

 

 

[Syrette]

Find myself siding with Leazes here.

[NE5]

he has a point thogh..what has dramatically changed in football over the past 3 years ?

 

the teams who are doing well are playing the same style, pass and move with the best players . it's not like a shift fron 3-2-5 has occurred

 

precisely

 

 

[Guest thenorthumbrian]

Me and my mate sat arguing today about what kind of job Kevin Keegan would do at Newcastle if he were to ever return.

 

He basically said:

 

Give KK £100m over 3 seasons and he'd have us challenging for the top 4 by the end of it and playing good football.

 

His argument was that he's a good judge of talent, could attract big games, would create a buzz on the stands, would be motivated to finish the job he started and that even though he lacks tactical awareness, he'd still do better here than Harry Redknapp is doing at Pompey and everyone's raving about him. He also said he did well at Man City and that he's better than or just as good as most of the managers outside of the top 4. He also said we could kill two birds with one stone by making Big Al his number 2 ready to take over one day, gives Shearer experience etc. and that "the Premiership can't be that hard outside of the top four if f****** Bolton did well". His words those ones.

 

I basically said no no no, you never go back, we need to move on from KK etc. etc.

 

However I must confess, KK, 100m, Shearer by his side and 3 years could see us in the top 6 and playing decent football. 

 

Could it?

 

What do you think...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It will take a hell of a lot to break into the top 4 even after the 3 and half years.

But if we can get back to being a top 6 team playing attacking football then at least the next few years will be a damn sight more entertaining than watching robotic football played under the likes of Allerdyce.

 

[fredbob]

he has a point thogh..what has dramatically changed in football over the past 3 years ?

 

the teams who are doing well are playing the same style,pass and move with the best players. it's not like a shift fron 3-2-5 has occurred

 

How about the formations that are used nowaday, there has to be a reason why the 433 is now so popular when it wasnt 15 years ago? What reason to do you cite for the change in formations preferences?

 

What about the immaculate organizsation of teams since mourihno came into the game. What about allardyces "contain" them mentality which gears teamm towards defendeing. These are all changes in my book, remeber when Derby would go out and try and outplay Man U with inferior players and still come out with 3 points.

 

Would that happen ever again?

 

Things have changed, and i think people are being navie by saying that it hasnt and all these managers who have studied and been apart of the game continuously for 40years are simply "over complicating" things.

 

If football hasnt changed then you'd all agree without thinking twice that successful managers nthe past, such as Shankly, Clough etc would be successful managers now with the exact saem style.

[madras]

he has a point thogh..what has dramatically changed in football over the past 3 years ?

 

the teams who are doing well are playing the same style,pass and move with the best players. it's not like a shift fron 3-2-5 has occurred

 

How about the formations that are used nowaday, there has to be a reason why the 433 is now so popular when it wasnt 15 years ago? What reason to do you cite for the change in formations preferences?

 

What about the immaculate organizsation of teams since mourihno came into the game. What about allardyces "contain" them mentality which gears teamm towards defendeing. These are all changes in my book, remeber when Derby would go out and try and outplay Man U with inferior players and still come out with 3 points.

 

Would that happen ever again?

 

Things have changed, and i think people are being navie by saying that it hasnt and all these managers who have studied and been apart of the game continuously for 40years are simply "over complicating" things.

 

If football hasnt changed then you'd all agree without thinking twice that successful managers nthe past, such as Shankly, Clough etc would be successful managers now with the exact saem style.

chelsea often use a 4-3-3 whereas man utd go more 4-4-1-1 as do arsenal.(no dramatic change) liverpool still 4-4-2.(hey 4-4-1-1 think beardsly playing off ferdinand or andy cole)

 

but anyway they are fluid and moving,only chelsea play quite rigid. keegan like his players to move,to have the nouse to use space and to cover for others. it's not subbuteo...players can move. one of the most disappointing things about nufc's play since robson left is  that you could tell which nufc player had the ball by where on the pitch it was

 

see the connection with those 4 i quoted..they are the ones with the best players

[Guest TPIB]

Find myself siding with Leazes here.

 

Me too which is VERY scary