fredbob Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 Martins will never be World class, that doesn't mean he can't be an important player for us in the future though. Do you not agree that he has the raw technical ingerdients to be world class, hejust oesnt have the brains? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dokko Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 Martins will never be World class, that doesn't mean he can't be an important player for us in the future though. Do you not agree that he has the raw technical ingerdients to be world class, hejust oesnt have the brains? Did you borrow those brains to make that post? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 Martins will never be World class, that doesn't mean he can't be an important player for us in the future though. Do you not agree that he has the raw technical ingerdients to be world class, hejust oesnt have the brains? Did you borrow those brains to make that post? It's the curse of Harry-Norway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredbob Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 Martins will never be World class, that doesn't mean he can't be an important player for us in the future though. Do you not agree that he has the raw technical ingerdients to be world class, hejust oesnt have the brains? Did you borrow those brains to make that post? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 martins needs to be sold asap explain why? s*** first touch Doesn't no how to use his pace Can't shoot Can't beat a man Passing is s*** No awareness I agree, but all of those things i'm giving him time to improve on. Would be mad selling. Give him at least another 2 years. Come on man, he's 23. Put it this way, Mancini was one of the best Italian strikers over the last 15-years, if he'd felt that Martins had the potential to improve those attributes, there's no way he'd have sold him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
junkhead Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 Berbatov massively raised his game in a season.. at 23 he was like a shite Pippo Inzaghi.. there's no reason why Martins shouldn't improve his game, apart from playing in a team that can't attack. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 Martins, offers far more to the team then Owen does, top prem strikers nowadays cant just get away with just being goalscrorers. Martins will scare defenders with his pace and style, alot more than Owen will nowadays. Sorry but that's just not true. How does Martins offer far more? Neither the stats nor watching both play back that up. They both offer about the same - i.e. about 10-15 league goals a season. Martins is constantly looking for the ball, his natural game mean he goes after the ball and battles for it, they say defences starts from the front and he is constantly putting players under pressure, not only that but he also gets the ball in deep and runs, his major problem is that he isnt inteligent with possession adn is very slow to release the balla t right times. Which leads him to lose the ball at times (which he goes back to get again) or play the wrong ball. Owens on the other hand is invisible when we dont have the ball in attacking areas, he rarely battles for hte ball and doesnt come deep for the bal (righlty) becasue that isnt his game, he is primarily a finisher and that is it, his link up play is ok, but again that isnt really part of his game. For me, Owen has only one strength to his game which is finishing, Martins has alot more, but none of them are refined. The fact that despite this he's still good for 10-15 goals puts him ahead for me. Martins doesn't graft a lot for me. This defending from the front thing isn't something he does. It seems to be a myth which people put around though. As much of a myth that Owen is such a great finisher tbh Better finisher than Martins imo. But that is the one of the only thing he is better than martins, martins is stronger quicker and had a bigger range for his shot and is much better in the air. Owens strengths limit him to the 18 yard box which doesnt offer enough for the team. Martins offers more in the second half of the pitch and is therefore a etter team player. All the better striekrs in the premiership are team players, Tevez, Rooney, Drogba, Torres, Adebayor, Berbatov even Benjani. Would you say that Owen will ever offer as uch as these do? I dont, do you think Martins has the ability to offer as much as these? I think he does, whether he has the brains to do so is another question. Actually Owen, has a much better touch than Martins, even though Owen's isn't great, his build-up play is better, even though it isn't great and his movement is far superior. I'm not saying Owen is great, as I've already stated neither are the answer anyway (him or Martins). This thread misses the point because long-term we should be looking at better than both of them if we want to go places / even think about challenging for honours. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 Maybe so, but can you honestly see a year or two down the line, Martins will have suddenly developed a footballing brain, or a first-touch, or basic ball control... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtype Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 ah, the striker that can finish but can't make chances, or the striker that can make chances but can't finish. Choices, choices. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 Martins, offers far more to the team then Owen does, top prem strikers nowadays cant just get away with just being goalscrorers. Martins will scare defenders with his pace and style, alot more than Owen will nowadays. Sorry but that's just not true. How does Martins offer far more? Neither the stats nor watching both play back that up. They both offer about the same - i.e. about 10-15 league goals a season. Martins is constantly looking for the ball, his natural game mean he goes after the ball and battles for it, they say defences starts from the front and he is constantly putting players under pressure, not only that but he also gets the ball in deep and runs, his major problem is that he isnt inteligent with possession adn is very slow to release the balla t right times. Which leads him to lose the ball at times (which he goes back to get again) or play the wrong ball. Owens on the other hand is invisible when we dont have the ball in attacking areas, he rarely battles for hte ball and doesnt come deep for the bal (righlty) becasue that isnt his game, he is primarily a finisher and that is it, his link up play is ok, but again that isnt really part of his game. For me, Owen has only one strength to his game which is finishing, Martins has alot more, but none of them are refined. The fact that despite this he's still good for 10-15 goals puts him ahead for me. Martins doesn't graft a lot for me. This defending from the front thing isn't something he does. It seems to be a myth which people put around though. As much of a myth that Owen is such a great finisher tbh Better finisher than Martins imo. But that is the one of the only thing he is better than martins, martins is stronger quicker and had a bigger range for his shot and is much better in the air. Owens strengths limit him to the 18 yard box which doesnt offer enough for the team. Martins offers more in the second half of the pitch and is therefore a etter team player. All the better striekrs in the premiership are team players, Tevez, Rooney, Drogba, Torres, Adebayor, Berbatov even Benjani. Would you say that Owen will ever offer as uch as these do? I dont, do you think Martins has the ability to offer as much as these? I think he does, whether he has the brains to do so is another question. Actually Owen, has a much better touch than Martins, even though Owen's isn't great, his build-up play is better, even though it isn't great and his movement is far superior. I'm not saying Owen is great, as I've already stated neither are the answer anyway (him or Martins). This thread misses the point because long-term we should be looking at better than both of them if we want to go places / even think about challenging for honours. Despite the clear difference in pace, I'd still say Owen's movement p*sses on Martins'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mobiius Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 still reckon that oba was stifled under sam. i reckon KK will watch oba and see that he can bring the best out of him. totally different ball game under KK (excuse the pun) both oba and owen will benefit . People seem to forget that in the game against bolton we were decimated through suspension, international duty and injury.Howay man he even played shola amadonkey ffs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Snrub Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 Why does it need to be a choice of 1 or the other? I'll have both ta. Martins is fast and explosive and call pull something out of the hat no one else on our team can. Owen is still a classy in the box finisher and the more quality players we bring in the more it will improve Owen's game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate Toon Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 Why does it need to be a choice of 1 or the other? I'll have both ta. Martins is fast and explosive and call pull something out of the hat no one else on our team can. Owen is still a classy in the box finisher and the more quality players we bring in the more it will improve Owen's game. This. I don't understand the constant choice between these 2, its better for the team to keep both. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rebel_yell12 Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 Doesn't it seem like a good thing to combine the two? If, as several have said, one can finish but doesn't create chances, whilst the other creates chances but doesn't finish, wouldn't playing both together seem a canny idea? I'm fairly sure this is what the Owen-Heskey combination was all about -- one who can't finish, but helps create, laying it off for the master finisher who rarely creates. We've only just seen how that worked for England in two matches of great importance (at the time) -- both forwards looked good, and the team won (and Owen scored three goals). Clearly, Martins and Heskey can't play the exact same style/role, but Owen needs a creative strike partner who is willing to lay it off. That last bit is my only problem with Martins as Owen's partner -- Martins doesn't seem to look up often, looking for the pass. And given one chance and one chance only to win a match, frankly, I'd still rather the ball fell to Owen than Martins. I don't think Obafemi Martins will ever be in the running for a Ballon d'Or -- and Owen had already won it by the time he was Martins' age. That is "world-class". Owen was, maybe still is (fitness allowing), near to that class when properly deployed (he's always been limited in that way, it's hardly new). Newcastle can't be deciding between the two though. Both seems the sensible option. Personally, I think Keegan's going to be more than happy to have more than one striker to choose from. And Viduka's fitness seems even dodgier than Owen's. That leaves Martins and Owen, realistically, playing together more often than not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Parka Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 I've posted numerous times as to why I think owen is ineffective, I can't be bothered to write it all here. I prefer Martins as Owen is too "dependent" basically. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShearMagic Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 Oba, because Owen is crap. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MagicNumber9 Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 Martins every day of week.. Owen aint a patch on what he used to be, when he plays it seems like hes not bothered, his injury record is unbelivabley piss poor, and if he in on gthe reported 103k a week, id rather find another striker, he aint worth that much money. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
merlin Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 I'm really looking forward to seeing KK's judgment on this - whatever anyone else thinks, he is the man that counts...in my view, one of these guys will be doing the journey by the season's end ; if Owen stays fit and looks interested, Martins will be the one to go unless KK thinks he can get more out of him than we've seen already - in fact, BOTH of them could well end up leaving fairly soon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 I'm really looking forward to seeing KK's judgment on this - whatever anyone else thinks, he is the man that counts...in my view, one of these guys will be doing the journey by the season's end ; if Owen stays fit and looks interested, Martins will be the one to go unless KK thinks he can get more out of him than we've seen already - in fact, BOTH of them could well end up leaving fairly soon. Not sure, I would think KK would be likely to hang on to Martins as he provides pace and a direct threat... and no reason to let Owen go really as he's just getting some games under his belt and might be useful again soon. No need to choose between the two... keep them both, maybe even play them both. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 Can't see KK wanting either long-term as both are very limited, only in different ways. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnypd Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 martins needs to be sold asap explain why? s*** first touch Doesn't no how to use his pace Can't shoot Can't beat a man Passing is s*** No awareness I agree, but all of those things i'm giving him time to improve on. Would be mad selling. Give him at least another 2 years. Come on man, he's 23. Put it this way, Mancini was one of the best Italian strikers over the last 15-years, if he'd felt that Martins had the potential to improve those attributes, there's no way he'd have sold him. i remember a 23 year old Samuel Eto'o looking shite against us in the UEFA cup for mallorca, a player Real Madrid didn't think could improve enough to the extent they were prepared to let arch-rivals Barca sign him. up till 23 Drogba was playing in the 2nd division of french football and up till 25 his biggest club had been Guingamp. Even in his first two seasons at Chelsea he was labelled a donkey and his rapport with the Chelsea fans was so bad he wanted to leave the country. Emmanuel Adebayor at 23 was in his first full season at Arsenal and struggling badly, Arsenal fans branded him a 'Donkey' and Martins in comparison fared much better in his first year here, even tho Adebayor had Arsenal and Wenger while Martins has had Newcastle and Roeder/Allardyce. Benjani Mwarwari up till the age of 29 had been an anonymous striker with auxerre and a bit of a laughing stock for Pompey and is now the league's third highest scorer. mind you i thought we should've signed him the summer after he arrived at Pompey, as, even though he'd done poorly, i could see he had a lot of potential. (a bit like how Robson spotted the 22 year old craig bellamy after a shite season at Coventry) all similar players to Martins in that they're athletic africans, not neccessarily had the ball skills or tactical training of equivalent european players and consequently took them that bit longer to make an impact. not all of them have neccessarily improved their weaknesses either, they've just learned how to mask them or play to their strengths to the extent that their weaknesses aren't so exposed. When Drogba first came here he didn't throw his weight around at all and whenever someone barged into him, even a tiny little player, he'd end up in a heap on the floor whinging at the ref. once he adapted to our league, found his strength and started bossing defenders around he looked awesome. his first-touch was still very raw but it no longer mattered as he knew how to use his pace and physical power to his advantage. and i'm not saying Martins is automatically going to be as good as any of those players. he might not improve beyong his current standard but completely writing him off as having reached his peak is pretty damn foolish. i can already see improvement in his movement for instance, when he came here he played exclusively down the middle and was quite static, no wonder coming from a league where holding your position is more important than making risky runs. now he spends a lot more time 'working the channels' which helps to pull opposition defenders out of position, and making runs in behind centre-backs, as we've seen from the bucketload of chances he's created for himself. yes he has done poorly when he's got into those positions and the lack of finesse is a concern, but part of it must be down to confidence, in the middle part of last season, up to alkmaar away, he was burying similar chances. i think Keegan will like him tbh, reminds me of Andy Cole who was similarly very raw but played with belief and who in his first full season at Man Utd completely lost his confidence and started fluffing big style. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
toptoon Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 Sell Owen while we still can. He's not the player he was and while not terrible his injury record is shocking to say the very least. Martins is younger, fitter, quicker, more creative, has two good feet, capable of the unpredictable and is only lacking in one thing at the moment for me and that is confidence. King Kev will get him the confidence back given a little bit of time and we'll have a hell of a player on our hands. If we could partner him with an Ashton or even better a Berbatov by next season then even better. Hell i'd swap Owen for either, he's a crock, a very good finisher yes but doesn't create anything himself and is a luxuary player! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geordie Boot Boy Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 Taking into account Owen's ridiculously bad fitness record, Martins. Otherwise, Owen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theregulars Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 Toughie, but the pragmatic answer is both because Iwen's always injured. You can't deny he'll pop up to score and is a way better finisher than Martins, but I think Martins is far more of a threat by himself and Owen relies on us giving him service, which we haven't been doing of recently (and here's hoping KK will solve that). Would like to answer this question when I've seen if KK can sort out the supply line to Owen, but until then I'd have to pick Martins because he's not horribly injury prone, scores from nothing quite often and can improve his finishing I reckon. I don't think Owen is necessarily going to get any better, although it will be intersting to see if he stays fit for the reast of the season how he'll do. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Monkey Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 Owen - he is a far better footballer than Martins. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now