4-3-3 long term ?

[Mick]

Owen deserves so much praise for how well this formation works, IMO. He's taken on his new role with perfection, and what makes it even more impressive is that it's not only a new role for him, but it's a very rare (if used at all) role in football as a whole. He's almost covering two positions at once, one as an attacking midfielder and one as a striker.

Got no idea whether it's the way to go long term, but short term, i.e rest of the season, I don't mind seeing this formation for all our games.

 

Agreed, Owen is playing some of his best football since coming here, he seems to be playing a similar role to Tevez at Man U.

[madras]

The flexibility is the key, as Mick has alluded to.

 

These days, it's all rigidity and one-dimensional from the top to the bottom of the league, only the really good teams excluded (Man Utd are the prime example, with Arsenal close behind.)

 

I can't stand "functional" football, with no freedom for the players, and I believe the Man Utd "way" of playing is far harder to defend against (they have an ever-changing fulcrum and the whole midfield buzzes around all over behind them.)

 

This formation, with better players, could be very exciting indeed.

 

Man Utd don't even have a formation beyond midfield iyam. Tevez, Rooney, Ronaldo, Nani et al just play where they want.

 

Apparently it works fairly well for them...

 

They do usually start out in set positions I think, and the changes usually occur when they aren't getting any joy, but that's the sort of thing that we need to be looking at doing ourselves. Like you've said, it helps that they're f****** brilliant.

nah..man utd are fluid throughout the game rergardless of if it's working or not.

[Mick]

 

Oh aye, it helps that those players are all f****** brilliant of course.

 

Let's hope that's what we get in the summer.  

[oldtype]

The thing about the current formation is that it's very much tailor made to our current situation (three quality strikers with different strengths and weaknesses + no reliable options on thie wing)

 

While I'm sure Keegan will continue to line up the players in a way that suits what our squad looks like at a given moment, I highly doubt our formation will look exactly like this in the long term considering that our squad will change considerably over the summer.

[Thespence]

We play 4 defenders in defence, 3 midfielders in midfield & 3 strikers up front. If we are winning we take the piss & send Smith on & re-jig the team to make sure Alan is a position where it wont cost the team the lead it has built up.

 

We dont play left wingers in defence, right midfielders on the left wing, centre backs at right back, center midf....THANK FUCK FOR THAT!!!

[Mick]

The success of the new formation, I think, is based on Martins' ability to roam unpredictably driving a few defenders nuts, while Viduka is a focal point (more stationary and traditional) whilst Owen arrives late in the box from the midfield to pop in a goal.  See his missed chance last week, and his goal this week -- both a late arrival in the box that his teammates predicted but the defenders didn't pick up until too late.  Viduka is the most easily replaced of the three, imo -- just a big target player who has some goal threat.  Martins' random pace and Owen's ability to appear in the right places is harder to find in another player.

 

The front 3 or whatever we call them all offer something different but they've really clicked and found out how to work it amongst themselves, they change so well during the game that opponents will find it hard to work them out because they'll just change position again, it's very clever football and not easy to pull off but they've done it.  It will be interesting to see how it develops for the rest of the season.

[Kimbo]

At least it is a 4-3-3 rather than, a bullshit 4-3-3 which is really 4-5-1

 

BINGO!

 

I'd trial it until the end of the season atleast, if it continues to work then yeah why not, i like it. Why does it always have to be 442 says i?!

[Mowen]

Looked almost like a midfield diamond to me today, with Owen pushing on.

[Rich]

The flexibility is the key, as Mick has alluded to.

 

These days, it's all rigidity and one-dimensional from the top to the bottom of the league, only the really good teams excluded (Man Utd are the prime example, with Arsenal close behind.)

 

I can't stand "functional" football, with no freedom for the players, and I believe the Man Utd "way" of playing is far harder to defend against (they have an ever-changing fulcrum and the whole midfield buzzes around all over behind them.)

 

This formation, with better players, could be very exciting indeed.

 

Man Utd don't even have a formation beyond midfield iyam. Tevez, Rooney, Ronaldo, Nani et al just play where they want.

 

Apparently it works fairly well for them...

 

They do usually start out in set positions I think, and the changes usually occur when they aren't getting any joy, but that's the sort of thing that we need to be looking at doing ourselves. Like you've said, it helps that they're f****** brilliant.

nah..man utd are fluid throughout the game rergardless of if it's working or not.

 

Being fluid and not having a formation are entirely different things, they certainly don't "play where they want", like.

 

The shape only really changes when they're chasing the game or after a goal, the "fluidity" is merely the movement off the ball more than anything when attacking, isn't it?

[madras]

The flexibility is the key, as Mick has alluded to.

 

These days, it's all rigidity and one-dimensional from the top to the bottom of the league, only the really good teams excluded (Man Utd are the prime example, with Arsenal close behind.)

 

I can't stand "functional" football, with no freedom for the players, and I believe the Man Utd "way" of playing is far harder to defend against (they have an ever-changing fulcrum and the whole midfield buzzes around all over behind them.)

 

This formation, with better players, could be very exciting indeed.

 

Man Utd don't even have a formation beyond midfield iyam. Tevez, Rooney, Ronaldo, Nani et al just play where they want.

 

Apparently it works fairly well for them...

 

They do usually start out in set positions I think, and the changes usually occur when they aren't getting any joy, but that's the sort of thing that we need to be looking at doing ourselves. Like you've said, it helps that they're f****** brilliant.

nah..man utd are fluid throughout the game rergardless of if it's working or not.

 

Being fluid and not having a formation are entirely different things, they certainly don't "play where they want", like.

 

The shape only really changes when they're chasing the game or after a goal, the "fluidity" is merely the movement off the ball more than anything when attacking, isn't it?

i'm still disagreeing with you. think of the mauling up here, they had six forward players who'd pop up all over.

[Yorkie]

Long-term, it could become quite easily combated if the midfielders aren't up to scratch.

 

/ If our defensive midfielder isn't covering the backline with challenges/headers and is giving possession away sloppily... it can all go to pot cos we're more vulnerable to concede.

/ If our attacking midfielder hasn't got the tenacity or ability, plain and simple, to crack a decent shot from range or arrive late in the box, then it's a goal threat denied.

/ If our othery-type midfielder loses his legs again we could be in trouble from a shape point of view.

 

I still reckon this could happen to either respective midfielder like the flip of a lightswitch, unfortunately.

 

It all depends on what midfielders he brings in, our formation and system. Whether he's got either 4-4-2 in mind or 4-3-3. Upfront, we've got three good individuals and an unpredictable, difficult to handle little system. The defense will be sound aswell i reckon, there's some damn good players there; finally getting continuity.

 

The midfield purchases are so key this summer.

[Rich]

The flexibility is the key, as Mick has alluded to.

 

These days, it's all rigidity and one-dimensional from the top to the bottom of the league, only the really good teams excluded (Man Utd are the prime example, with Arsenal close behind.)

 

I can't stand "functional" football, with no freedom for the players, and I believe the Man Utd "way" of playing is far harder to defend against (they have an ever-changing fulcrum and the whole midfield buzzes around all over behind them.)

 

This formation, with better players, could be very exciting indeed.

 

Man Utd don't even have a formation beyond midfield iyam. Tevez, Rooney, Ronaldo, Nani et al just play where they want.

 

Apparently it works fairly well for them...

 

They do usually start out in set positions I think, and the changes usually occur when they aren't getting any joy, but that's the sort of thing that we need to be looking at doing ourselves. Like you've said, it helps that they're f****** brilliant.

nah..man utd are fluid throughout the game rergardless of if it's working or not.

 

Being fluid and not having a formation are entirely different things, they certainly don't "play where they want", like.

 

The shape only really changes when they're chasing the game or after a goal, the "fluidity" is merely the movement off the ball more than anything when attacking, isn't it?

i'm still disagreeing with you. think of the mauling up here, they had six forward players who'd pop up all over.

 

Well you're wrong again, then

[madras]

The flexibility is the key, as Mick has alluded to.

 

These days, it's all rigidity and one-dimensional from the top to the bottom of the league, only the really good teams excluded (Man Utd are the prime example, with Arsenal close behind.)

 

I can't stand "functional" football, with no freedom for the players, and I believe the Man Utd "way" of playing is far harder to defend against (they have an ever-changing fulcrum and the whole midfield buzzes around all over behind them.)

 

This formation, with better players, could be very exciting indeed.

 

Man Utd don't even have a formation beyond midfield iyam. Tevez, Rooney, Ronaldo, Nani et al just play where they want.

 

Apparently it works fairly well for them...

 

They do usually start out in set positions I think, and the changes usually occur when they aren't getting any joy, but that's the sort of thing that we need to be looking at doing ourselves. Like you've said, it helps that they're f****** brilliant.

nah..man utd are fluid throughout the game rergardless of if it's working or not.

 

Being fluid and not having a formation are entirely different things, they certainly don't "play where they want", like.

 

The shape only really changes when they're chasing the game or after a goal, the "fluidity" is merely the movement off the ball more than anything when attacking, isn't it?

i'm still disagreeing with you. think of the mauling up here, they had six forward players who'd pop up all over.

 

Well you're wrong again, then

oh i see..you've forgot or werent there.(cos they did). their movement,flexibility,mobility and fluidity has been fantastic since christmas.

 

when tevez plays does rooney play alongside him ? no he floats about as does ronaldo, as does anderson/nani. does tevez stay up front..no he'll drop deep and one of the others will push on a bit.

[TRon]

I wonder if Keegan has been using 4-3-3 as it gets the best out of what we have and had different plans for next season...but maybe his head is being turned a little ?

 

D'you reckon he sees 4-3-3 as the long term (ie next season) plan ?

 

He's getting the best out of the players at his disposal and then some. Let's be honest, who could have foreseen Barton Butt and Geremi looking so fluid earlier on this season?

[Rich]

The claws are out now like. I was there, you cheeky twat. I was merely commenting on the "disagreeing" bit.

 

Of course they fucking float about man, but Ronaldo/Nanin are still wingers who play in the same areas, Tevez is still the main striker and Rooney still plays off the front man, the central midfielders still play in central midfield.

 

The movement has been fantastic for years man, not just since Christmas - what a comment - but they still play with a formation. Are you telling me Alex Ferguson sends out his front six and says "just play anywhere lads, you'll be reet". He doesn't. They've got their positions, but they've also got a bit of a licence to roam if necessary, which they'll do more when things aren't working out.

 

You'll rarely (if ever) see Ronaldo positioned down the middle from a goal-kick, having swapped with Tevez, will you? They've got their positions and they go from there, it's just that the system is so good it looks so disorganised when they're sweeping forward.

 

I can't be arsed to go digging, but I'm fairly confident that Ferguson and Man Utd have a formation, a system and the players know their roles exactly, the front six don't all have a free role.

 

I've watched them absolutely loads this season, in all competitions, because they play the best football in the league, I'm not basing all this on nowt.

[Dr Venkman]

come next season being proficient at playing a few different formations will be a massive boost. wouldnt surprise me if we got 4-4-2 against the better teams and 4-3-3 against the easier targets, who knows, i suppose it massively depends on which players we can get

[Dave]

Of course they fucking float about man, but Ronaldo/Nanin are still wingers who play in the same areas, Tevez is still the main striker and Rooney still plays off the front man, the central midfielders still play in central midfield.

 

Ronaldo is pretty much playing as a striker this season tbf. You only have to look at his assists to see that.

 

From Wiki:

 

03/04 6 goals, 4 assists

04/05 9 goals, 4 assists

05/06 12 goals, 7 assists

06/07 23 goals, 20 assists

07/08 35 goals, 7 assists

[Keefaz]

Don't think we'll stick with 4-3-3 long term. If Keegan gets in a top winger or two in the mode he likes, I think the future's a flexible 4-4-2. Although a lot will depend on which strikers stay.

[Rich]

Of course they fucking float about man, but Ronaldo/Nanin are still wingers who play in the same areas, Tevez is still the main striker and Rooney still plays off the front man, the central midfielders still play in central midfield.

 

Ronaldo is pretty much playing as a striker this season tbf. Check his assists.

 

The fact he's so remarkable is because he scores so many goals playing mainly as a winger, that's why people are so in awe of him. There's been nobody else like him.

 

I'm not denying he will have switched flanks or played up the middle at some points, but he's mainly utilised on the right hand side.

 

"Check his assists" is base level stuff, man.

[Dave]

I edited my post. The point was he's getting into areas to finish them off this year rather than making them for others.

[Wullie]

Rich is riled.

[madras]

The claws are out now like. I was there, you cheeky t***. I was merely commenting on the "disagreeing" bit.

 

Of course they f****** float about man, but Ronaldo/Nanin are still wingers who play in the same areas, Tevez is still the main striker and Rooney still plays off the front man, the central midfielders still play in central midfield.

 

The movement has been fantastic for years man, not just since Christmas - what a comment - but they still play with a formation. Are you telling me Alex Ferguson sends out his front six and says "just play anywhere lads, you'll be reet". He doesn't. They've got their positions, but they've also got a bit of a licence to roam if necessary, which they'll do more when things aren't working out.

 

You'll rarely (if ever) see Ronaldo positioned down the middle from a goal-kick, having swapped with Tevez, will you? They've got their positions and they go from there, it's just that the system is so good it looks so disorganised when they're sweeping forward.

 

I can't be arsed to go digging, but I'm fairly confident that Ferguson and Man Utd have a formation, a system and the players know their roles exactly, the front six don't all have a free role.

 

I've watched them absolutely loads this season, in all competitions, because they play the best football in the league, I'm not basing all this on nowt.

right then bit by bit

 

watch how much ronaldo makes moves into the middle,yes you'll not see him throgh the middle from a goal kick but is he on the right or left ? ronaldo will switch side to side and roony tevz switch forward/deep and both pull wide.

 

of course ferguson sends them out with a formation (did i say he didn't ?) but thir fluidity (like ours as the entertainers) means the players are clever footballers,moving,dragging the oppos away,moving into space.

 

the comparison i'm trying to draw is man utd (defensivly solid,scholes through the middle ,then flux)and most other teams who if you listen to the radio you know whos got the ball purely by where it is ie until recently "newcastle attack on the right" meant it was milner..now it's not (i know milners out but you know what i mean)

 

 

 

[Keefaz]

He's not a winger. Giggs is more of a winger than Ronaldo is. Cristiano's more of your modern-day, hard-working wide player.

[Tooj]

It's liquid football is what it is.

[Rich]

The claws are out now like. I was there, you cheeky t***. I was merely commenting on the "disagreeing" bit.

 

Of course they f****** float about man, but Ronaldo/Nanin are still wingers who play in the same areas, Tevez is still the main striker and Rooney still plays off the front man, the central midfielders still play in central midfield.

 

The movement has been fantastic for years man, not just since Christmas - what a comment - but they still play with a formation. Are you telling me Alex Ferguson sends out his front six and says "just play anywhere lads, you'll be reet". He doesn't. They've got their positions, but they've also got a bit of a licence to roam if necessary, which they'll do more when things aren't working out.

 

You'll rarely (if ever) see Ronaldo positioned down the middle from a goal-kick, having swapped with Tevez, will you? They've got their positions and they go from there, it's just that the system is so good it looks so disorganised when they're sweeping forward.

 

I can't be arsed to go digging, but I'm fairly confident that Ferguson and Man Utd have a formation, a system and the players know their roles exactly, the front six don't all have a free role.

 

I've watched them absolutely loads this season, in all competitions, because they play the best football in the league, I'm not basing all this on nowt.

right then bit by bit

 

watch how much ronaldo makes moves into the middle,yes you'll not see him throgh the middle from a goal kick but is he on the right or left ? ronaldo will switch side to side and roony tevz switch forward/deep and both pull wide.

 

of course ferguson sends them out with a formation (did i say he didn't ?) but thir fluidity (like ours as the entertainers) means the players are clever footballers,moving,dragging the oppos away,moving into space.

 

the comparison i'm trying to draw is man utd (defensivly solid,scholes through the middel ,then flux)and most other teams who if you listen to the radio you know whos got the ball purely by where it is ie until recently "newcastle attack on the right" meant it was milner..now it's not (i know milners out but you know what i mean)

 

The last paragraph is what I'd hope for too from us, that's what I was trying to say. But this formation is still fairly rigid at the moment, Geremi sticks to the right, Barton sticks towards the left and Butt sits behind them two. Martins is the only one all over the place and Owen is working right up the centre (as I think Dave said earlier), Viduka is the fulcrum - but even he's been moving around far more than he had been under Allardyce.

 

All signs are positive really, and I apologise for the tangent, as we should all just be enjoying this tonight - think I was just after a bit of a joust really, for whatever reason. If we play anything like Man Utd next season, then it should be brilliant to watch.

 

I think I'd actually prefer to see us give this whacky formation a proper crack ahead of a "4-4-2 with two wingers who can cross, etc." in the modern Premiership, the flexibility it potentially offers is brilliant. Of course it won't work all the time though.