Where's the ambition?

[bulivye]

been reading some of the articles on icnewcastle.com and i'm struck by a remark KK made about there being a "pecking order" of top teams that good players are expected to sign for. 

“Even if someone gives you a barrel-load of money you have to be honest and say you’re not going to get the best players. There’s a pecking order,” he said. “If I’m a player and I get the option to go to Chelsea or Newcastle, the Press would slaughter me, asking where my ambition was (if I chose Newcastle).“All the great players will go for where the honours are and if they don’t make it there they’ll drop to a Newcastle.” http://icnewcastle.icnetwork.co.uk/newcastleunited/sundaysun/tm_headline=concern-rises-in-owen-saga%26method=full%26objectid=20865968%26siteid=61634-name_page.html

  to my way of thinking, a player can show HUGE ambition by signing for a weak team and being instrumental in that team's rise to the top.  who's the better player, one who joins a team where everyone at every position is in the top 4-5 players in the world, or one who's presence & play at a "weaker" team brings them up to winning things? 

 

where am i going wrong? 

[Baggio]

Keegan's a fucking idiot for some of the comments he's come out with over the last few days.

 

 

[morgs]

wheres sholas ambition, dont want to go to stoke now.

[bulivye]

Keegan's a fucking idiot for some of the comments he's come out with over the last few days.

 

just to clarify, the words after the link, beginning with "to my way of thinking", are mine. 

 

 

you do see what i'm on about though, right?

[Baggio]

Keegan's a f****** idiot for some of the comments he's come out with over the last few days.

 

 

 

Really? Is it not just how he's always been? Honest. Wears his heart on his sleeve.

 

Ironically, two traits that everyone loves him for.

 

People have always loved him for his optimism and the belief he gave them too, which has seemed to have dried up now.

 

His comments in this thread are potentially disastrous, why would any decent player come here when the manager is basically calling us a second rate club? He's should be telling people we're a club on the way up and that this is the place to be, not putting off potential signings by saying if you don't make it at a big club then come to a Newcastle, we're going to struggle to get quality in as it is and comments like this from the manager will make it even harder.

 

All of the negative press around the club at the moment is his doing, people may love him for speaking his mind but I'd prefer him to keep his mouth shut if this is where it gets us.

[Elliottman]

Players want to win trophies. Top players want to play for successful teams and win trophies. If they had a choice between Newcastle or Chelsea, of course they are going to choose them. Whats wrong with saying that? Its common bloody sense.

[Guest optimistic nit]

Keegan's a f****** idiot for some of the comments he's come out with over the last few days.

 

 

 

Really? Is it not just how he's always been? Honest. Wears his heart on his sleeve.

 

Ironically, two traits that everyone loves him for.

 

People have always loved him for his optimism and the belief he gave them too, which has seemed to have dried up now.

 

His comments in this thread are potentially disastrous, why would any decent player come here when the manager is basically calling us a second rate club? He's should be telling people we're a club on the way up and that this is the place to be, not putting off potential signings by saying if you don't make it at a big club then come to a Newcastle, we're going to struggle to get quality in as it is and comments like this from the manager will make it even harder.

 

All of the negative press around the club at the moment is his doing, people may love him for speaking his mind but I'd prefer him to keep his mouth shut if this is where it gets us.

 

 

aye. he should shut up now, or he'll be severely hampering our close season transfer dealings.

[Elliottman]

The press and some fans, have once again, blew it way out of proportion.

 

Firstly, you expect a team that have just come out of a relegation fight (remember that?), to break the top four the season after? Or the season after that come to think about it?

 

And secondly, most people actually agree with what he has said?

 

So what the fucks the problem?

[Cronky]

A player who has already made a name for himself is likely to have already been through the process of helping one of the weaker teams. They won't want to go through the same process somewhere else - they'll want the different experience of playing for an established top side.

 

Take Bentley for example. He's struggled to get to the position he's in now. Why opt for a further struggle at a club who hasn't quite made it yet?

 

There's a certain group of players, of which Modric and Woodgate are examples, who the top four may be looking at, but decide against committing to. A player like that would be prepared to join a club with potential, and Keegan's negative message doesn't help.

 

Nothing is for ever. I can remember in the eighties, everyone was talking about the 'big five', which was Man U, Liverpool, Everton, Spurs and Arsenal. Looking at the situation now, Liverpool are going to struggle if they can't sort things out behind the scenes, Arsenal will be weaker without Wenger, Abramovich might lose interest (in fact I think he might be already) - anything can happen.

[Guest optimistic nit]

The press and some fans, have once again, blew it way out of proportion.

 

Firstly, you expect a team that have just come out of a relegation fight (remember that?), to break the top four the season after? Or the season after that come to think about it?

 

And secondly, most people actually agree with what he has said?

 

So what the fucks the problem?

 

nobody expects that we will be breaking into the top for next season, so why come out and say we're not, it just makes him look increadibly pissed off.

 

but players want to play for a team thats going somewhere, and a team that believes it can get somewhere, and keegan coming out and saying these things makes him look the opposite of that. aye, it'll be hard to break the top 4, but its possible, but most importantly of all to do it you need to convince the players that you believe its possible whether you think it is or not, and keegan has just shown he doesn't believe this.

[Baggio]

The press and some fans, have once again, blew it way out of proportion.

 

Firstly, you expect a team that have just come out of a relegation fight (remember that?), to break the top four the season after? Or the season after that come to think about it?

 

And secondly, most people actually agree with what he has said?

 

So what the fucks the problem?

 

Read his comments on .com, he's said we won't be a CL club in the next 3 years.

 

So what have we got to offer players? Come here and help us reach 5th because that's the best I think we're capable of?

 

Whether people agree with him or not is irrelivent as far as I'm concerned, and if you can't see how off putting comments like this will be to potential players of the quality he claims to be looking for then that's your problem.

[Guest shaun11177]

KK seems actually to be out of touch with the fans? he seemed to believe that we were all expecting a challenge to the big 4 next season, well i for 1 wasnt dont know about you lot.

He should have said over the next 3 seasons we are going to have a crack at that number 5 position, if we get there then we have to take a serious look at this club and make a decision-are we going to have a crack at the top 4 with the finance that will take or we going to be satisfied with 5th.

[Dave]

Strange comments, with a worryingly negative undertone. A few months ago he was saying this club is/can be as big as any; what's changed?

[Shak]

Have to agree with Baggio, I don't see what Keegan is hoping to achieve with these comments quite frankly.

 

This notion that "The Big 4" is some unbreakable unit is bullshit quite frankly. We ourselves were in the Champions League only 5 years ago, and we got there without spending any obscene amounts of money (I attribute this success to our fabulous chairman at the time btw). So what exactly is stopping us, or any other club for that matter, breaking into the top 4 with good management and some shrewd signings?

 

Obviously it won't happen overnight, but I don't buy the notion that it's impossible, or even improbable, quite frankly.

[Dave]

I wonder whether, like the Modric thing, we've approached a number of players and been rebuffed as not having enough to offer, and Keegan is feeling the frustration biting.

[bulivye]

Players want to win trophies. Top players want to play for successful teams and win trophies. If they had a choice between Newcastle or Chelsea, of course they are going to choose them. Whats wrong with saying that? Its common bloody sense.

 

nothing wrong with saying it.  what you say is, in fact, obvious.    what i'm on about is more in the "proving something to yourself" catagory.  a top player might ask himself, "can i believe i'm the best (player at my position, player in the world , whatever) if it can always be argued that by playing for (e.g.) real madrid, others carried me?"

[Minhosa]

I agree with Baggio here too.

 

The negative vibes KK has given off over the last few days are very worrying.

 

The thing that I can't get my head around is that when he was here the first time, nobody expected us to finish where we did in the first season up.

 

He was responsible for that. The reason he got us into that position was by;

 

a) creating an unbelievably positive vibe around the place. Not seen since, may I add and;

 

b) persuading very very good players to join us.

 

He is talking almost like a beaten man.

 

I accept that given a choice between us and a top 4 side 99% would go to them however, surely it's Keegans job to be publically saying 'we want what the top four have got, things won't always be this way and if or when one of them has a poor year we're gonna be waiting'.

 

The second thing I can't get my head around is what he's hoping to prove or get out these statements?

 

The top four are miles away? Errrrrrr no shit.

 

We're not gonna break into them anytime soon? Again, no shit.

 

There might as well be two leagues - one for them and one for the rest? Yet again, no shit.

 

If he's hoping to pressure Mort or Ashley then I'm wholly unimpressed with the way he's gone about it and it smacks of the KK trait of teddy's being thrown out of the pram.

[Baggio]

It's hard not to like Kevin Keegan. His optimism is infectious and his first Newcastle team certainly made a lot of friends with their cavalier approach to the game. However, his latest comments surely do the barcodes no favours at all.

 

Perhaps he was trying to dampen expectations, but in announcing that Newcastle have "no chance" of finishing in the top four next seasons and that there is "nothing he can do", he just comes across as defeatist. Quite frankly, if he knows that there is nothing he can do then he should do the honourable thing and resign so someone with some ideas can take over.

 

The Big Four are, of course, dominant, and they aren't going to roll over and just let the likes of Newcastle take away the Champions League spot that they so badly need. No one expects them to either, and of course finishing above one of them will be exceptionally difficult. There is a world of difference between something being difficult and it being impossible, though.

 

Certainly looking at the Chelsea squad and the players they have ssitting on the bench each week highlights the difference in quality between them and Newcastle, but they aren't unbeatable and neither are any of the other teams.

 

They do drop points, and they do lose games. Not many, granted, but if you go into a game against them having already lost mentally then it comes as no surprise to anyone when you then walk off the pitch have been beaten.

 

Beating the Big Four isn't actually required to gain more points than them anyway. League matches against them account for just 18 of the 114 points available each season, so consistently beating the rest of the teams is by far and away a lot more important. If Keegan really feels that he can't put a team together capable of that then he really should be back on a golf course somewhere.

 

He's not the only one at Newcastle making strange statements recently, though. The chairman, Chris Mort, announced "It is frustrating that Modric, like Woodgate before him, should take less money than we offered to move to the bright lights of London and European football with Tottenham next season".

 

Hang on . . . I thought footballers were criticised these days for caring more about money than sporting success. Now we have a chairman complaining that two players didn't put money first!

 

Most players are ambitious and given the choice between working with Ramos at Tottenham, who no doubt does have plans involving the Champions League and Kevin "There's nothing I can do" Keegan, which do you think they will choose?

 

It's likely to be a busy summer for Newcastle, but there is a danger that they have managed to shoot themselves in the foot before the transfer window opens.

 

The message coming from St James' Park seems to be "Come here if you have no ambition beyond picking up a fat pay cheque", and the Geordie faithful deserve so much more than that.

 

 

http://www.sportingo.com/Football/a8500_How-can-Newcastle-United-fans-put-up-Tynewasting-tactics-Kevin-Keegan

 

[Willow]

The press and some fans, have once again, blew it way out of proportion.

 

Firstly, you expect a team that have just come out of a relegation fight (remember that?), to break the top four the season after? Or the season after that come to think about it?

 

And secondly, most people actually agree with what he has said?

 

So what the fucks the problem?

 

Exactamundo, people just need to wait and see. We won't truly know what our situation is until the summer window shuts, in my opinion. Then we'll know the calibre of players we can attract, I can't wait either way

[Mr Logic]

“If I’m a player and I get the option to go to Chelsea or Newcastle, the Press would slaughter me, asking where my ambition was (if I chose Newcastle)

 

I thought that was a rather bizarre comment when he made it, he could have said it the other way round and it would have made almost as much sense.

If a player:

A) signs for Chelsea and gets 8 starts out of 40, or

B) signs for us and gets 38 starts and helps us into Europe?

I think a lot of players would choose option B.

 

I'll drive past his new house as often as possible so I can ask him about it if I see him going in or out.

[McCormick]

That's why players go to spurs, the (false) hype surrounding them every close season is unbelievable; "Spurs look to break 4" "Preppy Spurs look set to topple the giants". Anybody would want to be a part of that, king kev is basically repelling all the top players with his whining.

 

I'd be much happier if he resorted to his "we'll win the league next year" optimism rather than casting rain-clouds around our cloub so close to the transfer season. Not a dig, but silly silly stuff from keegan atm.

[ShearMagic]

I think certain people need to grasp a little concept called realism.

[Guest alex]

That's why players go to spurs, the (false) hype surrounding them every close season is unbelievable; "Spurs look to break 4" "Preppy Spurs look set to topple the giants". Anybody would want to be a part of that, king kev is basically repelling all the top players with his whining.

 

I'd be much happier if he resorted to his "we'll win the league next year" optimism rather than casting rain-clouds around our cloub so close to the transfer season. Not a dig, but silly silly stuff from keegan atm.

Being in London is a major factor too.

[Shak]

I think certain people need to grasp a little concept called realism.

 

So you think it's a good idea for our manager to be declaring that we see ourselves as a mid-table club at best for the foreseeable future?

 

Again, he may be right with his comments (I don't think he is, btw) but even if he is what good does it do to come out with this?

[McCormick]

In order to attract the calibre of players we want, we need to show to the world we have ambition.

This is the equivalent of Keano saying:

"We'll never be more than a mid-table also-ran at the very best... no matter how much we spend"