madras Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 to get back on track here, does anybody actually accept what Sir Les is saying, or are they clinging to the hope that its a load of rubbish and he doesn't know what he's on about ? i think he sees it as the press does....going on what the press has said he clearly states he has seen Keegan lately. I don't understand why you don't see that players have the information from inside the game. Don't you realise that within the game, players know what is really going on sometimes ? Amazing self denial, this like. heard similar from gavin peacock in robsons time Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE5 Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 Like bringing in Bowyer? Ad infinitum. And no fucker else I'd back my manager as much as possible. Or sack him if I didn't have the confidence to back him as much as possible. Its pretty straightforward. and if your judgement was flowed..ie appointing souness,roeder and allardyce...what would you expect then ? the important thing is backing the manager. Roeder got us into 7th place and the UEFA Cup. If you don't back your managers you will never do anything. Any good appointment you make will leave for a club that will back him. Allardyce was considered a good appointment by many people on here and elsewhere, including me. Nobody makes successful appointments every time. Get real. and where was souness taking us ,and allardyce and where was roeder taking us long term. you know aswell as i do that roeders finishing 7th was like macfauls good season as manager But Roeder wasn't forced to sell his best players ? i mean it was a fluke...like ipswich finishing 4th.......did you feel comfortable with roeder. he was a steadier and would take us further...agree ? stop gap, nowt wrong with it. He did OK in the short term. What did you think of Arsenal when they appointed Rioch, and Liverpool when they appointed Evans ? And Spurs when they appointed Gross, and Pleat ? This could go on forever. Everybody makes appointments like this sometimes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 The good old 'but other people did it too' defence. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 he clearly states he has seen Keegan lately. I don't understand why you don't see that players have the information from inside the game. Don't you realise that within the game, players know what is really going on sometimes ? Amazing self denial, this like. Bullshit, he clearly states that he met Keegan at his first match back, he doesn't mention recently. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnypd Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/04102007/58/premier-league-luque-shepherd-s-bizarre-tenure.html "No one could understand why I joined Newcastle but I got an offer I couldn't refuse. I had a meeting with Freddy Shepherd and he asked me what I wanted to earn. "So I said an absurd, completely ridiculous amount [£85,000 a week] and he immediately said it was ok. "The next day he spoke with Augusto Lendoiro, the chairman of Deportivo La Coruna. "He asked what the price was and Lendoiro said 15 million euros. In both cases, Shepherd didn't even negotiate. It was bizarre." That kind of thing didn't sound too great. Oh well, it's good to remember ex-players aren't worth listening to. Unless... i'd rather overpay for the right players than miss out on them altogether. though i think what luque has said is interesting in that it shows you can go overboard in this direction too. however the main problem there isn't so much that we overpaid for him, had he been a hit here no-one wouldve cared how much we paid, but that he was the wrong player and that we backed the wrong manager. appointing sounes and letting him have that all money is something Shepherd should be derided for. now we have a good manager with a track record in the transfer market i wont mind if we let him overpay for players, as long as it helps us get who we want. however theres a bit of a difference between luque and ferdinand. sir les was a big hit here, always has something good/interesting to say about us and has always been respected by the fans. luque was shite and everyone mocks him for his time here. there's also the fact as NE5 says that Ferdinand knows Keegan so its not like he's making stuff up out of thin air. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 Like bringing in Bowyer? Ad infinitum. And no fucker else I'd back my manager as much as possible. Or sack him if I didn't have the confidence to back him as much as possible. Its pretty straightforward. and if your judgement was flowed..ie appointing souness,roeder and allardyce...what would you expect then ? the important thing is backing the manager. Roeder got us into 7th place and the UEFA Cup. If you don't back your managers you will never do anything. Any good appointment you make will leave for a club that will back him. Allardyce was considered a good appointment by many people on here and elsewhere, including me. Nobody makes successful appointments every time. Get real. and where was souness taking us ,and allardyce and where was roeder taking us long term. you know aswell as i do that roeders finishing 7th was like macfauls good season as manager But Roeder wasn't forced to sell his best players ? i mean it was a fluke...like ipswich finishing 4th.......did you feel comfortable with roeder. he was a steadier and would take us further...agree ? stop gap, nowt wrong with it. He did OK in the short term. What did you think of Arsenal when they appointed Rioch, and Liverpool when they appointed Evans ? And Spurs when they appointed Gross, and Pleat ? This could go on forever. at the time arsenal appointd rioch and pool appointed evans they were the favoured candidates. Everybody makes appointments like this sometimes. is your argument.....with the last 3 it doesn't stand up Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 i'd rather overpay for the right players than miss out on them altogether. though i think what luque has said is interesting in that it shows you can go overboard in this direction too. however the main problem there isn't so much that we overpaid for him, had he been a hit here no-one wouldve cared how much we paid, but that he was the wrong player and that we backed the wrong manager. appointing sounes and letting him have that all money is something Shepherd should be derided for. now we have a good manager with a track record in the transfer market i wont mind if we let him overpay for players, as long as it helps us get who we want. however theres a bit of a difference between luque and ferdinand. sir les was a big hit here, always has something good/interesting to say about us and has always been respected by the fans. luque was s**** and everyone mocks him for his time here. there's also the fact as NE5 says that Ferdinand knows Keegan so its not like he's making stuff up out of thin air. Ferdinand met Keegan almost 8 months ago, how would that give him anything for this article? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE5 Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 The good old 'but other people did it too' defence. bit of realism Dave. Not a defence, just realistic. Overall, they were far from shite, and overall so far, Ashley is nowhere near looking like he knows how to succeed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 The good old 'but other people did it too' defence. bit of realism Dave. Not a defence, just realistic. Overall, they were far from shite, and overall so far, Ashley is nowhere near looking like he knows how to succeed. You could do with a bit of that instead of expecting us to challenge for the Champions League spots already. I'm willing to give them a chance. They've made one major decision so far, that was to sack the useless fucker Shepherd appointed (albeit in good faith) and bring in Kevin Keegan. What are your thoughts on that - right decision or what? Oh wait, that would involve you giving them some credit, so I expect you will post that you hate Keegan and preferred Allardyce. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzzieMandias Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 Like bringing in Bowyer? Ad infinitum. And no fucker else I'd back my manager as much as possible. Or sack him if I didn't have the confidence to back him as much as possible. Its pretty straightforward. And how much of your own money would you spend on players? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzzieMandias Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 Everybody makes appointments like this sometimes. Aye, but it takes a special kind of genius to make them four times out of five. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cubaricho Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 lots of quotes fron an ex pro who knows as much about what is going on as the rest of us. I am gobsmacked the thread ever made it past this post. Really sums up what is happening in this article. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
merlin Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 to get back on track here, does anybody actually accept what Sir Les is saying, or are they clinging to the hope that its a load of rubbish and he doesn't know what he's on about ? I think he's given an honest opinion as an outsider. Yes, I agree with that, Mick - Les has every right to give his views from what he knows, but if anything, I suspect even he has been rather circumspect about what is REALLY happening at NUFC ; I suspect that he could probably tell us more about the whole managerial set-up, such as how successful the tripartite of Wise, Veterre & Jiminez is proving, and whether KK is totally happy with it, but for various reasons, Sir Les is not going to do that - not the least of which is that he has genuine affection for the club & fans and doesn't want to put a completely negative spin on it all.... Time will tell whether he has been misinformed or not....... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 he should shut his trap, he's pissed spuds fans off with his recent comments as well. i love the bloke, but as if he has got a fucking clue what goes on at (either) club Legend. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 he should shut his trap, he's pissed spuds fans off with his recent comments as well. i love the bloke, but as if he has got a f***ing clue what goes on at (either) club Legend. Aye, said Keane and Berbatov should leave! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 Let's see what NE5 thinks of Keegan's latest comments... "He could be the perfect owner for a club like Newcastle. He comes up and wants to enjoy the day. But as you know he is a very clever man. He is not a fool. People see him come up in his shirt and all that, but he is a very bright man and he doesn't miss a trick. He knows where he wants to take the club. He does not mind saying he doesn't mind someone else coming in to share the load." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE5 Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 The good old 'but other people did it too' defence. bit of realism Dave. Not a defence, just realistic. Overall, they were far from shite, and overall so far, Ashley is nowhere near looking like he knows how to succeed. You could do with a bit of that instead of expecting us to challenge for the Champions League spots already. I'm willing to give them a chance. They've made one major decision so far, that was to sack the useless fucker Shepherd appointed (albeit in good faith) and bring in Kevin Keegan. What are your thoughts on that - right decision or what? Oh wait, that would involve you giving them some credit, so I expect you will post that you hate Keegan and preferred Allardyce. the other major decision - so it appears to date - is to put into place a policy which won't get back into the Champions League. Thats the point. Trying and not quite succeeding is a lot more acceptable than not trying. If you don't buy a ticket, you won't win the raffle. As I said earlier, what will happen when the crowds start to drop, what will happen then to the "good business". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 Way to completely dodge the question, as usual. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE5 Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 to get back on track here, does anybody actually accept what Sir Les is saying, or are they clinging to the hope that its a load of rubbish and he doesn't know what he's on about ? I think he's given an honest opinion as an outsider. Yes, I agree with that, Mick - Les has every right to give his views from what he knows, but if anything, I suspect even he has been rather circumspect about what is REALLY happening at NUFC ; I suspect that he could probably tell us more about the whole managerial set-up, such as how successful the tripartite of Wise, Veterre & Jiminez is proving, and whether KK is totally happy with it, but for various reasons, Sir Les is not going to do that - not the least of which is that he has genuine affection for the club & fans and doesn't want to put a completely negative spin on it all.... Time will tell whether he has been misinformed or not....... the thing that strikes me - and it is noticeable that there are some people who suspect this and won't admit it, and there are some who have their heads in the sand and just don't want to see it - is that ex footballers know what is going on inside the game. The vast majority of them are still in touch with their old contacts, sometimes current players, and each other. They know. Does it not occur to you that the current word within the game is that Newcastle aren't the progressive club that was thought would be the case ? Sir Les still does commentary work for TV. There is absolutely no doubt that he will know the feeling within football with regard to the club just now. Other ex players have also expressed similar feelings. Keegan will tell us what he thinks and what he wants but he has certain constraints because he;s the manager, I don't have any doubt that the meeting they had in London was an exchange of views and ideas, but one thing out of it is that Keegan has been told he can't go around saying the club can't get into the top 4 teams. No owner of any company would like that, its correct from Ashleys point of view, and Keegan has to accept it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE5 Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 Way to completely dodge the question, as usual. see my last post. One or two ex players have told me - recently - that backing the manager is the most important thing and it tells them as players that the club is a progressive one or not. They all "defended" the last board on this very point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 How about answering my question? It was pretty simple. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmonkey Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 Keegan will tell us what he thinks and what he wants but he has certain constraints because he;s the manager, I don't have any doubt that the meeting they had in London was an exchange of views and ideas, but one thing out of it is that Keegan has been told he can't go around saying the club can't get into the top 4 teams. No owner of any company would like that, its correct from Ashleys point of view, and Keegan has to accept it. Keegan didnt say he'd not be able to get us into the top 4. He said we could, but it'd take 4-5 years. I.e. thats how long its going to take to undo the damage the previous board did in overseeing us going from CL qualifiers to a dogshit, relegation threatened club with plenty of s*** players on massive wages and unsustainable huge debts. Which is pretty accurate imo. Hopefully it'll take 2-3 years to undo the damage, but certainly there'll be no quick fix due to our current state and unattractiveness. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest battyleespeed Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 really useless argument... the manager has already spoken out several times that we are far behind and need players. his requests/concerns have been backed by senior players like given. the modric bid is also a pointless "evidence" as there is no proof who initiated that bid in the first place. the only solid fact is that the club hasn't signed any major player since kk took over. the guy who wrote the column mentioned that obvious cost-cutting exercise is being run. i'll throw another term in the mix - "stopping escalation of commitment". it is a business term, look it up. looks like mike wants out... otherwise he wouldnt not be so eager to get a investors onboard and cut all possible expenses. all speculation of course but doesnt look good at all. then again, the lack of quality signings so far could be just incompetence and/or lack of will at the top. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 Keegan will tell us what he thinks and what he wants but he has certain constraints because he;s the manager, I don't have any doubt that the meeting they had in London was an exchange of views and ideas, but one thing out of it is that Keegan has been told he can't go around saying the club can't get into the top 4 teams. No owner of any company would like that, its correct from Ashleys point of view, and Keegan has to accept it. Keegan didnt say he'd not be able to get us into the top 4. He said we could, but it'd take 4-5 years. I.e. thats how long its going to take to undo the damage the previous board did in overseeing us going from CL qualifiers to a dogshit, relegation threatened club with plenty of s*** players on massive wages and unsustainable huge debts. Which is pretty accurate imo. Hopefully it'll take 2-3 years to undo the damage, but certainly there'll be no quick fix due to our current state and unattractiveness. completely spot on the damage the old board did to the club was massive, the souness appointment cos this club 5-10 years Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colos Short and Curlies Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 really useless argument... the manager has already spoken out several times that we are far behind and need players. his requests/concerns have been backed by senior players like given. the modric bid is also a pointless "evidence" as there is no proof who initiated that bid in the first place. the only solid fact is that the club hasn't signed any major player since kk took over. the guy who wrote the column mentioned that obvious cost-cutting exercise is being run. i'll throw another term in the mix - "stopping escalation of commitment". it is a business term, look it up. looks like mike wants out... otherwise he wouldnt not be so eager to get a investors onboard and cut all possible expenses. all speculation of course but doesnt look good at all. then again, the lack of quality signings so far could be just incompetence and/or lack of will at the top. Look at Robsons first couple of seasons and tell me you can't see similarities with having to get rid of deadwood high earners whilst wheeling and dealing in the market. Once the likes of Duff, Smith, Shola are off the wage bill (like Fegurson, Macelino, Maric before them) we'll see greater flexibility in what we can afford to offer players in terms of wages Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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