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Pre-season: decimated and rendered almost completely useless by...


Dave

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Looking for positives as best I can here...

 

Any chance that Smith or Ameobi might do better if they had Martins alongside them and Owen playing just off in the system we finished last season with? If Smith has a strength as a striker it's playing with his back to goal, trying to bring his teammatescoming from deep into the game. He'll never get the goals but with Martins and Owen in the team we hardly need him to be prolific, just to contribute a bit in build up play and give us some physical presence up top.

 

:(

 

No

 

I felt filthy just writing that. :lol:

 

Looks like it's gonna be the case though if we don't bring in another striker. Unless we revert to a straight 4-4-2, which I can't see working at all with our current set of players.

 

-------- Jonas ---- Guthrie ----- N'Zogbia

 

--------------------- Owen

 

---------- Smith -------------- Martins

 

Will work better than

 

 

Jonas ------ Butt ------- Guthrie --------- N'Zogbia

 

 

------------ Owen -------- Martins

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Exactly right Dave tbh, and as i said here it's my only worry. I'm confident we'll get the right players in, but team chemistry is a serious concern.

 

Not too worried by the pre-season because as said before we've got the majority out. I am concerned at how many players have missed pre-season though and that will probably reflect in our opening games, players who aren't match fit and the team that haven't played together before.

 

Agree - this is my only major worry atm. I'm not greatly concerned on the whole but i'm a bit uneasy about this. Yeah, pre-season is about building fitness and team chemistry - but the players who haven't gained from this so far are the ones we need to do so the most.

 

You've just hit the nail on exactly head i was talking about. The players we desperately needed to gel with each other, have missed out. In some ways it's fortuante we've got Man Utd and Arsenal in the first three games (i think?), games which aren't winnable anyway.

 

they are winnable tbh, going in with that attitude is why we havent won any in the last few years.

 

:lol: Garbage; what's my attitude got to do with anything at all? I'm not playing am i? And i don't for a minute believe that our players, or Keegan, ever going into football matches with that sort of attitude. That's why i'm a fan and they're the players.

 

The reason why we haven't won there is because they're miles better than us.

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Jonas Faye Guthrie Zog

 

Martins Owen.

 

Can't see that being too effective.

 

Guthrie doesn't seem to be enough inclined to get forward to link midfield and attack. Owen would have to drop deep, and I can't see Martins leading the line that effectively in that scenario.

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From what i heard Guthrie certainly does seem to be the one who would sit back and spread the play, rather than rush forward or be particularly box-to-box. Just going off what i've read though.

 

We tried having Butt, at times, as the box-to-box player last season (well, kind of, he needed to get forward basically) cos he was alongside someone like Geremi or Smith - and he was shit at it. Well, he was shit for the most part, but i'd hate to see another player be forced into that if he's clearly a more defensive player.

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I've said in the past that we have been papering over the cracks but now there are f**king great wide gulfs in our team. I will be at Old Trafford on the 17 th and am not looking forward to it.

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I do agree with the OP mind. Keegan knew what the squad size would be like going into the pre-season, so to choose a tournament where we'd be playing two decent European opponents in 3 days wasn't the best decision. We'd surely have been more beneficial playing one away match against someone of that ilk, and then maybe another game against a Championship or League One side where he could have played half of that side from last night, plus more of the kids off the bench, before playing his full-strength side again in the two home friendlies.

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we have very little quality.

 

I disagree with that, or at least the severity of it. We have a few decent players. The problem is as has been pointed out that once those few decent players are out of the way we desperately lack quality and strength in depth.

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we have very little quality.

 

I disagree with that, or at least the severity of it. We have a few decent players. The problem is as has been pointed out that once those few decent players are out of the way we desperately lack quality and strength in depth.

 

I think that with two good signings (a center-forward and a good, attack-minded midfielder) we'd have a pretty exciting team, personally.

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We should always expect injuries; we knew Viduka wouldn't be fit, Owen/ Martins are always lilkely to pick up knocks & we knew we'd be light in midfield - we knew Emre was on his way, that Smith was shite & that the middle of the park was a bit of a joke.

 

What has ruined this pre-season is not injuries it is our inability/ reluctance to bring players in. We will bring some in before the season starts; too little too late for me. It will take until the middle/ end of September to get any kind of settled team/ understanding & if I were KK I'd be royally pissed off with the support he's been shown so far. Don't give me the usual bollocks of the offers we've made & missed out on. It doesn't wash anymore. Yes, we have players out but we have hardly managed an attack in the last 3 friendlies never mind score a goal. What's more the opposition has not been anything other than mediocre.

 

We have built absolutely no momentum approaching the season & that is poor in the extreme.

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We should always expect injuries; we knew Viduka wouldn't be fit, Owen/ Martins are always lilkely to pick up knocks & we knew we'd be light in midfield - we knew Emre was on his way, that Smith was shite & that the middle of the park was a bit of a joke.

 

What has ruined this pre-season is not injuries it is our inability/ reluctance to bring players in. We will bring some in before the season starts; too little too late for me. It will take until the middle/ end of September to get any kind of settled team/ understanding & if I were KK I'd be royally pissed off with the support he's been shown so far. Don't give me the usual bollocks of the offers we've made & missed out on. It doesn't wash anymore. Yes, we have players out but we have hardly managed an attack in the last 3 friendlies never mind score a goal. What's more the opposition has not been anything other than mediocre.

 

We have built absolutely no momentum approaching the season & that is poor in the extreme.

 

As I've said, Keegan has said that the players he's in for are players 'the big clubs are also in for'.

 

Would you prefer him to wait to try and sign them or settle for a lesser standard of player like Malbranque and Diouf to get players through the door earlier?

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We should always expect injuries; we knew Viduka wouldn't be fit, Owen/ Martins are always lilkely to pick up knocks & we knew we'd be light in midfield - we knew Emre was on his way, that Smith was s**** & that the middle of the park was a bit of a joke.

 

What has ruined this pre-season is not injuries it is our inability/ reluctance to bring players in. We will bring some in before the season starts; too little too late for me. It will take until the middle/ end of September to get any kind of settled team/ understanding & if I were KK I'd be royally pissed off with the support he's been shown so far. Don't give me the usual bollocks of the offers we've made & missed out on. It doesn't wash anymore. Yes, we have players out but we have hardly managed an attack in the last 3 friendlies never mind score a goal. What's more the opposition has not been anything other than mediocre.

 

We have built absolutely no momentum approaching the season & that is poor in the extreme.

 

As I've said, Keegan has said that the players he's in for are players 'the big clubs are also in for'.

 

Would you prefer him to wait to try and sign them or settle for a lesser standard of player like Malbranque and Diouf to get players through the door earlier?

 

Which "big clubs" is KK referring too? Spurs got Modric; are they a big club, if so then so are we. We aren't in for the players the top 4 want as we wouldn't get them so we are in for players that other "big clubs" want & we can't get them yet; are these players waiting for these other "big clubs" to declare/ decline an interest before coming here then?

 

I'd hope for better than Malbranque & Diouf; but, I'll say this; they are better options than some of our squad.

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We should always expect injuries; we knew Viduka wouldn't be fit, Owen/ Martins are always lilkely to pick up knocks & we knew we'd be light in midfield - we knew Emre was on his way, that Smith was s**** & that the middle of the park was a bit of a joke.

 

What has ruined this pre-season is not injuries it is our inability/ reluctance to bring players in. We will bring some in before the season starts; too little too late for me. It will take until the middle/ end of September to get any kind of settled team/ understanding & if I were KK I'd be royally pissed off with the support he's been shown so far. Don't give me the usual bollocks of the offers we've made & missed out on. It doesn't wash anymore. Yes, we have players out but we have hardly managed an attack in the last 3 friendlies never mind score a goal. What's more the opposition has not been anything other than mediocre.

 

We have built absolutely no momentum approaching the season & that is poor in the extreme.

 

As I've said, Keegan has said that the players he's in for are players 'the big clubs are also in for'.

 

Would you prefer him to wait to try and sign them or settle for a lesser standard of player like Malbranque and Diouf to get players through the door earlier?

 

Which "big clubs" is KK referring too? Spurs got Modric; are they a big club, if so then so are we. We aren't in for the players the top 4 want as we wouldn't get them so we are in for players that other "big clubs" want & we can't get them yet; are these players waiting for these other "big clubs" to declare/ decline an interest before coming here then?

 

I'd hope for better than Malbranque & Diouf; but, I'll say this; they are better options than some of our squad.

 

I think you've hit the nail on the head when you say players are waiting to see what their options are before committing to us.

 

Unless you think the club just haven't got around to putting bids in yet.

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smith's all round game was summed up perfectly by something he did early in the game last night. the ball was played into him along the floor, slowly, he had no team mates around him and clearly needed to hold the ball up with a defender on his back and wait for support, a pretty easy task really. the defender did nothing but get tight to his back, no challenge, no nipping infront to get the ball. he slid along the floor and kicked the ball away, away from himself, away from all his team mates.

 

i was stunned, i dont know why, but it stopped me dead. all i could do was collapse in laughter. it was so, so bad. its shocking football, thoughtless, talentless, no instinct, nothing, just shit. i got my first coaching badge last week and it involved studying quite a lot of youngsters playing football, i can say with all confidence that an 8 year old could have done better.

 

he needs to be removed from this club NOW. i never want to see him in a newcastle shirt again, he's the fucking anti-christ.

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We should always expect injuries; we knew Viduka wouldn't be fit, Owen/ Martins are always lilkely to pick up knocks & we knew we'd be light in midfield - we knew Emre was on his way, that Smith was s**** & that the middle of the park was a bit of a joke.

 

What has ruined this pre-season is not injuries it is our inability/ reluctance to bring players in. We will bring some in before the season starts; too little too late for me. It will take until the middle/ end of September to get any kind of settled team/ understanding & if I were KK I'd be royally pissed off with the support he's been shown so far. Don't give me the usual bollocks of the offers we've made & missed out on. It doesn't wash anymore. Yes, we have players out but we have hardly managed an attack in the last 3 friendlies never mind score a goal. What's more the opposition has not been anything other than mediocre.

 

We have built absolutely no momentum approaching the season & that is poor in the extreme.

 

As I've said, Keegan has said that the players he's in for are players 'the big clubs are also in for'.

 

Would you prefer him to wait to try and sign them or settle for a lesser standard of player like Malbranque and Diouf to get players through the door earlier?

 

Which "big clubs" is KK referring too? Spurs got Modric; are they a big club, if so then so are we. We aren't in for the players the top 4 want as we wouldn't get them so we are in for players that other "big clubs" want & we can't get them yet; are these players waiting for these other "big clubs" to declare/ decline an interest before coming here then?

 

I'd hope for better than Malbranque & Diouf; but, I'll say this; they are better options than some of our squad.

 

I think you've hit the nail on the head when you say players are waiting to see what their options are before committing to us.

 

Unless you think the club just haven't got around to putting bids in yet.

 

I don't know what to think tbh. We look a shambles at the moment.

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We should always expect injuries; we knew Viduka wouldn't be fit, Owen/ Martins are always lilkely to pick up knocks & we knew we'd be light in midfield - we knew Emre was on his way, that Smith was s**** & that the middle of the park was a bit of a joke.

 

What has ruined this pre-season is not injuries it is our inability/ reluctance to bring players in. We will bring some in before the season starts; too little too late for me. It will take until the middle/ end of September to get any kind of settled team/ understanding & if I were KK I'd be royally pissed off with the support he's been shown so far. Don't give me the usual bollocks of the offers we've made & missed out on. It doesn't wash anymore. Yes, we have players out but we have hardly managed an attack in the last 3 friendlies never mind score a goal. What's more the opposition has not been anything other than mediocre.

 

We have built absolutely no momentum approaching the season & that is poor in the extreme.

 

Nail on head. The irony of this thread..

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Guest rebel_yell12

One thing to take away from the mess of having so many players missing -- no one ELSE knows how Newcastle United are going to be playing this season either.  Even if a team were interested in scouting Newcastle for tactics/hints of formation, there's no real chance.  It's been pretty damn close to the Reserves side playing in pre-season.  

 

The list of those "out" for most of it (or all) includes three forwards, three (?) top defenders and two probably top midfielders (unsure w/Barton).  The numbers by themselves is painful, the names are worse: Owen, Martins, Viduka, Coloccini (?), Beye, Faye, Guitierrez, & Barton.  Okay so Barton...I'm less concerned about, tbh.  But I'm fairly sure that with Nicky Butt, four of those constituted the five better/best players last season.  Plus one who was essentiall in getting the new system to work (Viduka).

 

The only GOOD thing about the list is the, aside from Coloccini, the above players all played together last season in the new formation or have been present in training, at least, for the majority of pre-season (Jonas).  So the issue of "gel" is a little less essential.  One would presume that the three forwards have become relatively accustomed to one another at this point.  Same with Beye and Faye.  So the issues will be in getting the midfield to adjust to the forwards (esp. if Owen is playing deeper, knowing where Owen's runs will end up/how to read his movement will be very important) and communicating with the defence, and hopefully getting Coloccini fully imbedded in the back four.  If nothing else, ManUtd away is out of the way early, and that's with Cronaldo and Tevez likely to be out.  And it's a "trial by fire" for the new midfield and defenders.  

 

The first XI isn't bad, imo, assuming everyone is fit.  I'm assuming it will look something like this:

 

Keeper (Given or Harper, unsure atm)

 

Beye     Coloccini     Faye     Enrique

 

                Guthrie/Butt

 

Guitierrez                        Duff/N'Zogbia/Barton

 

                   Owen ©

 

        Viduka               Martins

 

As I said, that really doesn't look bad.  I can be fond of Joey Barton (on the pitch) and N'Zogbia can be quite nice as well -- but neither has shown an attitude that makes me comfortable making them an "automatic" starter (Barton, unreliable and temperamental, and N'Zogbia has his issues about being a blatant want-away) and Duff thus far has looked good in pre-season.  Butt played well in that DM position at the close of the season, but Guthrie is a more-likely long-term option so would like to see him deputised heavily there.  Other than that, and the fact that Newcastle has two great keepers, thus making it hard to choose, the first XI picks itself.  And I'd be comfortable with that team heading out essentially every match.

 

The problem, as others have stated, is in the "cover" players.

 

Keeper:  No problems here, with either Given or Harper as first runner-up, and if needed both Forster and Krul, who while young look promising thus far.

 

Defenders:  Cacapa (32), Taylor (22), Edgar (21), Bassong (22), Tozer (18).  Taylor and Bassong are decent to good cover at CB, but the fullbacks are not well-covered at all.  Only promising bit is that what we do have is quite young, barring Cacapa, so could be good future prospects.

 

Midfield:  N'Zogbia (22), Guthrie (21), Barton (26), Milner (22), Geremi (29), LuaLua (17), Doninger, Godsmark.  The numbers seem tolerable, surprisingly.  We really should be able to field a decent 4-man midfield with that many on the squad.  The problem is in quality/experience -- the last three are too young to play senior side regularly, Geremi is older than his age (or looks it, when he plays), and Barton may or may not be eligible to play.    

 

Forwards:  Since the above starting XI deploys three strikers, the bench looks thin here.  For once, the striking options are one of Newcastle's weaknesses.  The first three are top-class.  The remnants are Smith, Ameobi, Danquah, Carroll and Donaldson:  three very young players and two players who we've all seen shouldn't be playing for Newcastle.  Considering particularly Viduka's fitness, at least one more striker is desperately needed.  With another big striker in I would be much more comfortable in the likelihood of goals when one of the strikers take an injury.

 

How many of those options should be anywhere near a Top 8 team?  Not nearly enough to make me comfortable in Newcastle's ability to reach that mark this season.  Particular weak spots are at CM, fullback and CF.  If anyone in the XI takes an injury, as preseason has shown quite clearly, it's not going to be pretty.  For this reason, the preseason has not been utterly useless.  It has shown us all just how thin the cover is for an XI that looks vaguely promising.  Without injuries, it could be a good season.  But what are the odds of not taking an injury to the first XI, when that XI includes Viduka, Owen & (probably) Duff?  I don't think the problem is in the initial quality, but in the depth. 

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pre season is the next two ganes if most of the first teamers who haven't played so far are fit enough to play.also  i'd be surprised if there wasn't at least 1 full scale behind closed doors game scheduled for next week.

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We should always expect injuries; we knew Viduka wouldn't be fit, Owen/ Martins are always lilkely to pick up knocks & we knew we'd be light in midfield - we knew Emre was on his way, that Smith was s**** & that the middle of the park was a bit of a joke.

 

What has ruined this pre-season is not injuries it is our inability/ reluctance to bring players in. We will bring some in before the season starts; too little too late for me. It will take until the middle/ end of September to get any kind of settled team/ understanding & if I were KK I'd be royally pissed off with the support he's been shown so far. Don't give me the usual bollocks of the offers we've made & missed out on. It doesn't wash anymore. Yes, we have players out but we have hardly managed an attack in the last 3 friendlies never mind score a goal. What's more the opposition has not been anything other than mediocre.

 

We have built absolutely no momentum approaching the season & that is poor in the extreme.

 

Nail on head. The irony of this thread..

 

 

Indeed; I nearly simply queried the negativity.........................

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IT'S PRE-SEASON, THE MAIN AIM OF WHICH IS TO BUILD FITNESS, IT HAS NO ACTUAL BEARING ON THE SEASON

 

It does if you haven't had one, which is kind of the point. Can't be helped but it's not going to do us any favours.

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