Still an Ashleyite? Who's with me?

[Kitman]

There are some very good posts in this thread rather than the reactionary rubbish being spouted by a lot of people. Regarding Ashley, I ask myself the question "What has Ashley done wrong?"

 

Attempt to sell Barton?

Attempt to sell Owen?

Successfully sell Milner for £12m?

Unearth players like Colo, Jonas, Guthrie and these new guys?

Make Keegan Manager?

 

You could argue that Owen shouldn't be sold, but he's been offered a contract and doesn't seem committed to sign it yet.

 

Like someone else said in this thread, Keegan seems to be fighting the wrong battles, and if he'd just stick to what he's good at this could all work very well.

 

Depends if Keegan was hired as a coach or a manager.  If it's the latter, he's every right to throw his toys out of the pram. 

[Guest sittingontheball]

Interesting theory Bob.  If you look at his last job at Citeh, KK seemed attached to some non-performers there too. Steve McManaman especially sticks in the mind. Maybe hes gone a bit sentimental compared to the first time he managed us. Personally I think there's a bit of "straw that broke the camel's back" about all this.  Its been brewing for a while due to the divvying up of all the different aspects of managing the team.

 

The funny one is that both sides seem to be have been doing a good job.

 

Keegan has been organising the team great after the disarray that was the fat bastard and we now look an attractive side that we fans can look forward to watching. He's completely revitalised Michael Owen and has got him looking great. 4-4-2 with Shola was probably a mistake at Arsenal, but we had injuries and a bit of false confidence after Manure away was to be expected. Of course, he saved us from the disaster of possible relegation.  As a really likable man, he makes the right noises and gives is all hope.  As a coach, I give him 8/10 so far.

 

The management side have paid off loads of debt before it was a problem with the credit crunch, have signed some good players in Colo and Jonas. Attempts were made for Modric and Woody too but they didn't want to come.  They identified some expensive dead wood in Smith and Barton and a deffo trade in in Milner. The Mido racism thing at Boro was handled skilfully and the Barton one was too without crappy exposes and own goals like "Leeds On Trial". Some of the incentives like free tickets for cup games to ST holders are long overdue.  The main thing they haven't done is keep Keegan happy or keep us in touch when things blew up yesterday.  Some people don't like Ashley wearing the shirt or going in the stands, but I think they are twats. On the whole, I give the management/owner 7 out of 10. The extra point is off because clearly need more players, an extra LB and an extra CM (not some loanee) for starters.

 

This then begs the question. Why can't they all get along!?

[TRon]

There are some very good posts in this thread rather than the reactionary rubbish being spouted by a lot of people. Regarding Ashley, I ask myself the question "What has Ashley done wrong?"

 

Attempt to sell Barton?

Attempt to sell Owen?

Successfully sell Milner for £12m?

Unearth players like Colo, Jonas, Guthrie and these new guys?

Make Keegan Manager?

 

You could argue that Owen shouldn't be sold, but he's been offered a contract and doesn't seem committed to sign it yet.

 

Like someone else said in this thread, Keegan seems to be fighting the wrong battles, and if he'd just stick to what he's good at this could all work very well.

 

Depends if Keegan was hired as a coach or a manager.  If it's the latter, he's every right to throw his toys out of the pram. 

 

If Keegan being 'manager' means keeping the likes of Smith and Milner out of some misplaced loyalty then I'd rather he stuck to coaching...which he's done very well I should add.

[cp40]

I couldn't be bothered to read the opening post, but my view is simple.

 

Kevin Keegan is THE ONLY manager I want at NUFC right now.

 

If we're all honest with ourselves, we know that although this new setup looks fine on paper, in practice it is undermiming KK and that is THE LAST thing that we need.

 

Ashley needs to sort this out, and quickly, if he wants my support.

 

Sorting this out would involve making sure KK has final say on everything, and is involved in EVERY decision with regards to the first team.

 

 

 

Does it look good on paper , not sure about that.

 

 

This set up is a f-king joke,

 

how on earth can kk build a team, when someone else is choosing the players at the club, Its recipe for RELEGATION.

 

When KK made the decisions on Transfers, he took from bottom of the second div, to top of the div, then third in the prem at first try, the Football was brill, the times were good, This is why KK is so popular.....

 

If youy werent around to see it home and away like i was, then you wont truely understand.

[TRon]

I couldn't be bothered to read the opening post, but my view is simple.

 

Kevin Keegan is THE ONLY manager I want at NUFC right now.

 

If we're all honest with ourselves, we know that although this new setup looks fine on paper, in practice it is undermiming KK and that is THE LAST thing that we need.

 

Ashley needs to sort this out, and quickly, if he wants my support.

 

Sorting this out would involve making sure KK has final say on everything, and is involved in EVERY decision with regards to the first team.

 

 

 

Does it look good on paper , not sure about that.

 

 

This set up is a f-king joke,

 

how on earth can kk build a team, when someone else is choosing the players at the club, Its recipe for RELEGATION.

 

When KK made the decisions on Transfers, he took from bottom of the second div, to top of the div, then third in the prem at first try, the Football was brill, the times were good, This is why KK is so popular.....

 

If youy werent around to see it home and away like i was, then you wont truely understand.

 

How can KK make all the decisions on transfers when he hasn't even seen many players in world football? He's a big fan of Henry, we all know that, but it was Wenger who bought him when he was relatively unknown, and KK wanted to buy him after he's past his peak.

[madras]

I couldn't be bothered to read the opening post, but my view is simple.

 

Kevin Keegan is THE ONLY manager I want at NUFC right now.

 

If we're all honest with ourselves, we know that although this new setup looks fine on paper, in practice it is undermiming KK and that is THE LAST thing that we need.

 

Ashley needs to sort this out, and quickly, if he wants my support.

 

Sorting this out would involve making sure KK has final say on everything, and is involved in EVERY decision with regards to the first team.

 

 

 

Does it look good on paper , not sure about that.

 

 

This set up is a f-king joke,

 

how on earth can kk build a team, when someone else is choosing the players at the club, Its recipe for RELEGATION.

 

When KK made the decisions on Transfers, he took from bottom of the second div, to top of the div, then third in the prem at first try, the Football was brill, the times were good, This is why KK is so popular.....

 

If youy werent around to see it home and away like i was, then you wont truely understand.

 

But on paper, Keegan is meant to have the final say on everything. That's the problem here surely.... that he isn't having the final say.

and if he hasn't been having the final say he's been lying to us.

[buzza]

Ashley has deffo turned the club into a more serious business, there are no more silly signings and the people who have come through the door have obviously been well researched and are players who could realistically be at the club for another 7-8 years. I also like the fact that we don't throw silly titbits to the press and we let them dig large holes for themselves.

The obvious drawback is that Keegan feels his authority is dwindling if the "rumours/speculation" are true in that the club was willing to sell Smith/Milner behind his back. I have my doubts that this is completely true, I expect Keegan was satisfied if he got the players in exchange for sellingthese players.

 

My personal take is this:

I would have been more than happy offloading smith (ecstatic) to everton and at 12.000.000 it was too good to be true for Milner! I, like Keegan, would have hoped for another two signings and think that perhaps there were strings pulled above keegans head and new players were not searched for with the vigour that is required. Keegan has got into a hissy and should just get on with his job, yes, he has reason to moan but not enough to quit!!

[Guest mobiius]

we have got ashley its his company lock ,stock and all that goes with it so until we have someone different i support him 100%. It has made me laugh at the amount of us that have bought into the whole has he gone or hasn't he debacle. Watching SSN 2 fairy commentators squirm when they realized that they had been reporting a load of bollocks all day yesterday was good to watch then reality hit me in a strange way it was during the live Fat Freddy Shepard phone call i started thinking to myself that this could of been them asking him how was life in the championship, the fat knob had the audacity to say that it was plain to see that the club was in a worse state now than when he was there. People need to realize that a lot surrounding us, is media orientated,they play us like a fiddle and we fall for it everytime. I'm not saying that keegan hadn't resigned or that he hadn't been sacked, what i am saying is they(the media) print or say it and they know we will kick off and give them 2 days worth of coverage on a half baked rumour.All the while the manchester mafia get there man and we are the laughing stock AGAIN.

[greydos]

if Ashley tried to get involved in the sale of ANY player he did wrong. This is the manager's choice, and his alone.

 

Ashley won't make the team good on the pitch, Keegan will, with Keegan's chosen tools. Regardless of whether fan X, Y or Z sees a need for a certain player or not. And regardless of whether Ashley agrees with that fan's opinion.

 

Benitez won the champion's league with Djimi Traore and Vladimir Smicer, 2 truly woeful players. But they were useful in the match that got them the champion's league. Crap players do not ALWAYS give crap performances, sometimes they knock out a rare stellar one in a useful situation.

 

I'm not using that as an argument to back keegan on smith, milner and barton. I'm merely saying that the best person, no sorry, the ONLY person who should judge whether a player is worth keeping at a club, especially our club, is KEVIN KEEGAN!!

 

As for Kaka's OP, you prefer to keep Ashley's team because of 4 serious games and 6 pre-season friendlies (and the 4 signings didn't even play in all of these) as opposed to Keegan's 30 year history in football as twice European player of the year and the glorious manager that made us the best football playing club in England?!

 

I always try to respect posters and their views and never try to offend anybody, so i'll merely say: Kaka, i think your view is mistaken.

[Kitman]

There are some very good posts in this thread rather than the reactionary rubbish being spouted by a lot of people. Regarding Ashley, I ask myself the question "What has Ashley done wrong?"

 

Attempt to sell Barton?

Attempt to sell Owen?

Successfully sell Milner for £12m?

Unearth players like Colo, Jonas, Guthrie and these new guys?

Make Keegan Manager?

 

You could argue that Owen shouldn't be sold, but he's been offered a contract and doesn't seem committed to sign it yet.

 

Like someone else said in this thread, Keegan seems to be fighting the wrong battles, and if he'd just stick to what he's good at this could all work very well.

 

Depends if Keegan was hired as a coach or a manager.  If it's the latter, he's every right to throw his toys out of the pram. 

 

If Keegan being 'manager' means keeping the likes of Smith and Milner out of some misplaced loyalty then I'd rather he stuck to coaching...which he's done very well I should add.

 

Keegan's judgement on players has usually been pretty good.  I doubt he'd be that attached to average players like Smith and Milner if the squad had sufficient depth,  but it doesn't.  It's up to Keegan to build a team, how can he be expected to do that if he has little say in transfers?

[Guest Mcdonald36]

Superfan ilicious

[Theregulars]

I don't like the fact that transfer business is going above KK's head, but I'm not going to pretend that I'm not keen on the players they have bought for him - it's the wrong way of doing it, but it seems to be getting us good enough players. A different what if would be what we would look like with the players Keegan wants - if it's true he wanted Schweinsteiger, I'd be more pleased with him alone than Xisco and Gonzalez combined. However, this is about principle - Ashley hasn't necessarily done anything wrong, he's done something foolish that goes against Keegan's character and desires completely. He clearly doesn't understand Keegan and hasn't really done his homework on him. I like the idea of having a good scouting team - think Wise is a twat but if he's responsible for players like Jonas and Colo, then I thank him for it. I think there is a case to say Keegan needs to calm down a bit and understand that football is different, the way clubs run is different, but Ashley also needs to understand that by installing Keegan, he has effectively hamstrung himself and cannot mess around with a man so adored by his footballing public. Both need to back down a bit and compromise a bit, ideally, but I don't see it happening. It's a clear-cut choice between a clean break - a very risky strategy as fans will be disillusioned to say the very least - and a compromise solution, again risky as it is not a god foundation on which to run a football club. I blame Ashley and co for the mess as it is clear that they have told Keegan things which are not true and given him assurances on which they haven't delievered. I like Ashley and hate all this paper shit about him being a beer-swilling incompetent buffoon, but he certainly needs to change his position on this matter.

[biggs]

Wonder if there is any way back for KK after this ,how can Ashley be trusted now if Kev is so pissed off with interference from above and it has been said that this was going to happen by various posters on here .

Atm i hope Ashley can find a buyer and sell up because i do not think we will ever catch up with the rest with way we are running our business now .Everyone thought he was the knight in shining armour slaying the fat dragon and building the kingdom again but i feel he doesnt have a clue how to get the right people in place too get us back up to the upper heights of the premiership with this penny pinching flog and not replace attitude ,surely he must know our squad is threadbare and injurys will be inevitable in key positions and his team cannot get the bodies in after being in place for so long and identifying a list of targets after selling players for good profit .

[TRon]

One of the problems of giving the manager absolute say in who stays and who goes, is that when he leaves you have to start all over again with the new manager wanting his own players. In this scenario, I like the continental system better in that when a new coach is brought in it doesn't mean an absolute squad overhaul. Keegan obviously isn't happy that he isn't getting his way more, but I honestly believe that his forte is coaching and motivating, and it would be a mistake to give him too much say in who stays or goes. He should have input but he can't be allowed to undermine the transfer set up.

[Skirge]

As long as this KK thing gets sorted out I am behind him, does appear a lot goes on at the club that he has nothing to do with though, put his faith in Llambias and Wise and got let down..

[AyeDubbleYoo]

One of the problems of giving the manager absolute say in who stays and who goes, is that when he leaves you have to start all over again with the new manager wanting his own players. In this scenario, I like the continental system better in that when a new coach is brought in it doesn't mean an absolute squad overhaul. Keegan obviously isn't happy that he isn't getting his way more, but I honestly believe that his forte is coaching and motivating, and it would be a mistake to give him too much say in who stays or goes. He should have input but he can't be allowed to undermine the transfer set up.

 

I agree, the new system is better and will be in the long-term interests of the club.

 

The problem is if Keegan just refuses to accept it. If that's the case then he will have to be the one to go, as much as I love him it is better that he be sacrificed than for the club to return to the insability and panic-buying of the past.

 

I've said I think the way to resolve this is to tweak the system so that Keegan has a greater say, without removing team Wise. I don't see any reason why KK can't tag along on their scouting trips and have a good amount of input.

[Tachikoma]

One of the problems of giving the manager absolute say in who stays and who goes, is that when he leaves you have to start all over again with the new manager wanting his own players. In this scenario, I like the continental system better in that when a new coach is brought in it doesn't mean an absolute squad overhaul. Keegan obviously isn't happy that he isn't getting his way more, but I honestly believe that his forte is coaching and motivating, and it would be a mistake to give him too much say in who stays or goes. He should have input but he can't be allowed to undermine the transfer set up.

 

The new system is like having a computer that thinks for you. What if it decides that you aren't needed anymore?

[Cronky]

I keep coming across posts which state that the Manager should have 'full control' over transfers, but in practice no manager is in that position. He has to work with the people who hold the purse strings, and inevitably some players are going to be sold and others are not going to arrive when the manager would prefer something different. That's life.

 

The only boundary that I think should not be crossed is players arriving who the manager explicitly says he doesn't want. But has that happened here? Does anyone seriously think that Keegan said he didn't want Xisco and Wise still went right ahead?

[madras]

One of the problems of giving the manager absolute say in who stays and who goes, is that when he leaves you have to start all over again with the new manager wanting his own players. In this scenario, I like the continental system better in that when a new coach is brought in it doesn't mean an absolute squad overhaul. Keegan obviously isn't happy that he isn't getting his way more, but I honestly believe that his forte is coaching and motivating, and it would be a mistake to give him too much say in who stays or goes. He should have input but he can't be allowed to undermine the transfer set up.

 

The new system is like having a computer that thinks for you. What if it decides that you aren't needed anymore?

and if you try to fight back it travels back in time to  kill you as a child.

[Northern Monkey]

There are some very good posts in this thread rather than the reactionary rubbish being spouted by a lot of people. Regarding Ashley, I ask myself the question "What has Ashley done wrong?"

 

Attempt to sell Barton?

Attempt to sell Owen?

Successfully sell Milner for £12m?

Unearth players like Colo, Jonas, Guthrie and these new guys?

Make Keegan Manager?

 

You could argue that Owen shouldn't be sold, but he's been offered a contract and doesn't seem committed to sign it yet.

 

Like someone else said in this thread, Keegan seems to be fighting the wrong battles, and if he'd just stick to what he's good at this could all work very well.

 

 

Fail to sack Barton.

Fail to sell Smith/Ameobi/etc.

Fail to get in enough players.

Give Dennis Wise a BOARD position.

Allow Dennis Wise power over recruitment/retention.

Make us like liek an even bigger bunch of twats that those supporting Souness/Allardyce did.

[Kitman]

I keep coming across posts which state that the Manager should have 'full control' over transfers, but in practice no manager is in that position. He has to work with the people who hold the purse strings, and inevitably some players are going to be sold and others are not going to arrive when the manager would prefer something different. That's life.

 

The only boundary that I think should not be crossed is players arriving who the manager explicitly says he doesn't want. But has that happened here? Does anyone seriously think that Keegan said he didn't want Xisco and Wise still went right ahead?

 

I think there's a good chance he wasn't consulted at all about Xisco and Gonzalez.  And I think he's being largely ignored over who he'd like to stay, who he'd like to sign, and who he wants to give new contracts to.  Keegan wants to shape his own squad.  Wise and co think it's none of his business.  That's what this showdown is all about, and this transfer window has brought it all to a head.

[madras]

I keep coming across posts which state that the Manager should have 'full control' over transfers, but in practice no manager is in that position. He has to work with the people who hold the purse strings, and inevitably some players are going to be sold and others are not going to arrive when the manager would prefer something different. That's life.

 

The only boundary that I think should not be crossed is players arriving who the manager explicitly says he doesn't want. But has that happened here? Does anyone seriously think that Keegan said he didn't want Xisco and Wise still went right ahead?

 

I think there's a good chance he wasn't consulted at all about Xisco and Gonzalez.  And I think he's being largely ignored over who he'd like to stay, who he'd like to sign, and who he wants to give new contracts to.  Keegan wants to shape his own squad.  Wise and co think it's none of his business.  That's what this showdown is all about, and this transfer window has brought it all to a head.

based on ?

[TRon]

There are some very good posts in this thread rather than the reactionary rubbish being spouted by a lot of people. Regarding Ashley, I ask myself the question "What has Ashley done wrong?"

 

Attempt to sell Barton?

Attempt to sell Owen?

Successfully sell Milner for £12m?

Unearth players like Colo, Jonas, Guthrie and these new guys?

Make Keegan Manager?

 

You could argue that Owen shouldn't be sold, but he's been offered a contract and doesn't seem committed to sign it yet.

 

Like someone else said in this thread, Keegan seems to be fighting the wrong battles, and if he'd just stick to what he's good at this could all work very well.

 

 

Fail to sack Barton.

Fail to sell Smith/Ameobi/etc.

Fail to get in enough players.

Give Dennis Wise a BOARD position.

Allow Dennis Wise power over recruitment/retention.

Make us like liek an even bigger bunch of twats that those supporting Souness/Allardyce did.

 

I highlighted the only semi-valid point from your rant. The rest of it isn't worth addressing tbh.

[Kitman]

I keep coming across posts which state that the Manager should have 'full control' over transfers, but in practice no manager is in that position. He has to work with the people who hold the purse strings, and inevitably some players are going to be sold and others are not going to arrive when the manager would prefer something different. That's life.

 

The only boundary that I think should not be crossed is players arriving who the manager explicitly says he doesn't want. But has that happened here? Does anyone seriously think that Keegan said he didn't want Xisco and Wise still went right ahead?

 

I think there's a good chance he wasn't consulted at all about Xisco and Gonzalez.  And I think he's being largely ignored over who he'd like to stay, who he'd like to sign, and who he wants to give new contracts to.  Keegan wants to shape his own squad.  Wise and co think it's none of his business.  That's what this showdown is all about, and this transfer window has brought it all to a head.

based on ?

 

I think that was Henry Winter's take on it, and it makes sense to me.  What else do you think this is about other than who calls the shots over transfers? 

[madras]

I keep coming across posts which state that the Manager should have 'full control' over transfers, but in practice no manager is in that position. He has to work with the people who hold the purse strings, and inevitably some players are going to be sold and others are not going to arrive when the manager would prefer something different. That's life.

 

The only boundary that I think should not be crossed is players arriving who the manager explicitly says he doesn't want. But has that happened here? Does anyone seriously think that Keegan said he didn't want Xisco and Wise still went right ahead?

 

I think there's a good chance he wasn't consulted at all about Xisco and Gonzalez.  And I think he's being largely ignored over who he'd like to stay, who he'd like to sign, and who he wants to give new contracts to.  Keegan wants to shape his own squad.  Wise and co think it's none of his business.  That's what this showdown is all about, and this transfer window has brought it all to a head.

based on ?

 

I think that was Henry Winter's take on it, and it makes sense to me.  What else do you think this is about other than who calls the shots over transfers?  

money for transfers is a possible