Jonas Gutierrez

[Yorkie]

I think Ronaldo had something daft like 5 or 6 assists last year, but that's not really the point.

 

I've been saying the same thing when it comes to Jonas. His contribution would be far more of worth if he wasn't relied upon to produce everything; the assists, the goals, whatever. That doesn't excuse his woeful finishing, however...

 

The point is, he's only a good player. He's not a brilliant player; he's a good one - who's strengths are carrying the ball, and patrolling the wing, basically. He's not an orthodox winger, but that doesn't make him a bad one. If there was somebody in the team who could compensate for his lack of delivery and provide some form of balance in the side, then we'd see the benefits of Jonas a lot more. Such is the shitness of our midfield, in an ideal world, Jonas would be about the third most important player in a four-man midfield. But given the wank personnel, the shite management, the injuries, the lack of continuity with selections... he's a ridiculously important individual who we're being forced to rely on. And it just doesn't suit him.

 

If he ends up buggering off at the end of the season to an actually decent club, i'll be mortified (yet unsurprised).

 

 

Agree entirely with BooBoo, btw. But again - it doesn't make him a bad player. He's just ridiculously unsuited in our midfield. It's depressing; that. You know you've got a shite midfield when a player is too good for it to be of maximum worth.

[Frazzle]

I've said for a while, that he's all fur coat and no nik naks.

 

Well you've been wrong for a while, no-one can deny his importance to the team, even fans of other teams rate him.

 

And Maradona and Basile apparently.

[Skirge]

Why does he shoot so badly then? technique, composure, lack of power?

 

Not lack of power surley, composure maybe a little, panics and snatches at it, or my bet more poor technique, and happily technique and composure can be worked on.

Final ball into the box could be again composure and techique but also he is very head down and maybe tries to do to much instead of getting in that early ball.

[Guest BooBoo]

I've said for a while, that he's all fur coat and no nik naks.

 

Well you've been wrong for a while, no-one can deny his importance to the team, even fans of other teams rate him.

 

And Maradona and Basile apparently.

 

I dont give a flying horses arse what Maradona or Basile think. When he pulls on the Newcastle shirt, he's been very very average. Works his arse off granted, but from a wide man you want good crosses into the box and to chip in with 5-8 goals a year. I'm not seeing it.

[Parky]

Becoming very frustrating, yes okay lack of options anbd movement at times means he doe snot have a chance of a decent final ball but other times dear me its shokcing also for such a big powerful bloke he has a piss poor shot, all of these thngs though should be put right with good coaching. Give 2 hours a day shooting practice, most wide players in all leagues can finish, a lot of them are direct freekick takers too. He needs towork on striker a dead ball and a moving ball, then strikeing the vall whilst under pressure and not just 1 hours wwork but 1 hours every fkn day.

 

He's not a YTS apprentice Skirge, he's a full Argentinian international for God's sake!!!

 

Don't get me wrong, I like Jonas, but his end product is piss poor for us. I've been looking at his stats and one site says he's provided 4 assists and another says 2 assists, whatever the total is it's just not good enough for a player of his undoubted ability.

 

He's pretty crap really. Good close skills and beats the odd man, but hardly any end product to speak of. Also lately he's started giving the ball away a lot.

 

Yeh he must be - so crap he's been picked for Argentina, and we all know how crap they are as a whole.

 

 

Player plays for Argentina so he must be alright. He does next to nothing for us. What he does for us is what we're discussing not whether he plays for Argentina.

 

4 assist and 0 goals in 22 odd games. Bernard Mendy has more. 

 

 

 

Assists as a stat don't really mean anything.  Take C.Ronaldo last season, I think he had about 10 assists last season, yet he would've been heavily involved in about 15-20 more goals without having an assist.

 

As they say...there's lies, damned lies and statistics.

 

Jonas ain't heavily involved with much.

 

Runs back a lot and can hold the ball with his close skills, yet time and time again releases it badly.

[SteveMc]

The Argentina point is very pertinent.  Hasn't he scored and provided an assist in his last 2 games for them?  Fact is we are poor going forward and rely on the lad too much.  He's trying to force things for us and is getting frustrated and lacking a bit of confidence.  Our best player by some margin in many games this year and it astounds me that he's getting grief.

[Gallowgate Toon]

Shooting will be down to confidence like, as much as people say he's never scored a lot he seems to get it on target at least for Argentina and i'm pretty sure he scored all his 5 goals last season iirc?

[Beezeri]

Not just shooting but confidence plays a major role in every area of the game! This is something which we'll need to fix ASAP but unfortunaly it won't be happening any time soon with the current management team as they clearly are not able to motivate the players not to mention any sort of ability to get even 50% out of their potential...

[dustynrg]

Not just shooting but confidence plays a major role in every area of the game! This is something which we'll need to fix ASAP but unfortunaly it won't be happening any time soon with the current management team as they clearly are not able to motivate the players not to mention any sort of ability to get even 50% out of their potential...

 

That might be true but it's always a puzzle to me why players earning what they earn need to be "motivated", who motivates the fans? Certainly not this team. It's high time they took collective responsibility, overpaid and the "so what" attitude if we go down? They'll all have clauses in their contracts letting them go to wherever will have them. Puddins the lot of them with a handful of honourable exceptions.

 

As for Jonas, it's laughable when I see that people think getting picked for Argentina means very little, not good enough when he plays for us yet good enough for Argentina? Might have something to do with the "unmotivated" mob that play around him then.

[Parky]

Silly picking Jonas over Di Maria, I suppose Maradona knows what he's doing. 

[tmonkey]

Not just shooting but confidence plays a major role in every area of the game! This is something which we'll need to fix ASAP but unfortunaly it won't be happening any time soon with the current management team as they clearly are not able to motivate the players not to mention any sort of ability to get even 50% out of their potential...

 

That might be true but it's always a puzzle to me why players earning what they earn need to be "motivated", who motivates the fans? Certainly not this team. It's high time they took collective responsibility, overpaid and the "so what" attitude if we go down? They'll all have clauses in their contracts letting them go to wherever will have them. Puddins the lot of them with a handful of honourable exceptions.

 

What a footballer gets paid is irrelevant. To us it's a fortune, to them it's just something that is a standard. I'm sure there's kids working in sweatshops in war-torn, third world countries who if they're lucky will be feasting on a handful of boiled rice tonight who'll look at many of us and the salary or education we are receiving and the lifestyle that goes with it, and fail to understand why we aren't bending over backwards for our employers/teachers/etc. It's all comparative, and when a salary level becomes the standard, then it's not going to motivate unless it's excessive.

 

Hence, you have to take money out of the equation, and when you do, you see that it boils down to being just another team sport. And like most team sports, players at a certain standard need to be motivated by their manager in order to compete at a high level. They need to be told what the gameplan is, what they're meant to be doing, how they're meant to do it, they need to be told the right things that will put them in the right frame of mind for the match ahead, they need to go out there pumped up ready to annihilate the opposition, and most importantly, they need to believe in all of that themselves. A few players might not need that, you'll have your Stuart Pearce's of this world who'll smash lockers before going out on the pitch, but for others they need that motivation from their manager. Without the right sort of leadership, you'll probably have footballers going onto the pitch having no understanding or faith in their role, the team selection, the tactics, etc, and thinking about anything from what supermodel babe they're going to hit on at the afterparty or what supercar they're going to get next, to what gourmet meal they're going to have for supper.

 

In fact, I'd say that earning the amount of money they do would be even more reason for them not to be motivated for a game of football to the extent that they're willing to bust a gut for the team and the fans. If I was earning what they were earning and wasn't a fan of the club paying my wages, unless my manager grabbed me by my balls and told me wonderful I was with my 12 incher and how I needed to prove just how big I was compared to my teammates by being Zidane reincarnated on the pitch, I'd do enough to just get by, i.e. put in a shift that wont have the fans, the media, and those within the game singling me out. More than enough to make sure im not labelled the new Luque, Babayaro, Marcelino, etc, but if I see an opportunity to run 80 yards on the counter and tire myself out to do so, or a 50-50 that might risk a collision, then I'll sit that round out. Or, if I had a crap manager in charge and saw that the team was going nowhere, with or without my efforts, I'd probably feign injury and bang a different hot chick every night because I'm a Premiership footballer and I can do that, or if I'm settled with the wife, probably focus on going nuts on a hobby that I love whilst im "injured".

[Jayson]

probably focus on going nuts on a hobby that I love whilst im "injured".

 

Which would be football more than anything else surely, doesnt make to much sense to me.

 

Obviously lots is down to character.

 

The kind of players who would become unmotivated by the fact that they have a crap manager are not the kind of players who are good enough anyway. The character of someone like that is not built for winning. The kind of players that get big have a perfectonist attitude and a drive to improve endlessly...to be better than everyone else and better than they were previously. They want to improve status & reputation...get into the national teams etc

 

Id hope that anyone who makes it to premiership level thinks like that in the first place. Dont believe its down to natural ability in the most, more character.

 

If we're playing badly it shouldnt be down to lack of motivation, but down to purely not having a clue wtf their role is in the team. Like hulls first goal, s taylor was busy pointing at colo to go mark Fagan as he was running down the wing...colo didnt move so taylor had to run back out again...didnt get their soon enough...cross & goal.

 

Its that kind of basic bs that is doing us in, not motivation.

[Frazzle]

I've said for a while, that he's all fur coat and no nik naks.

 

Well you've been wrong for a while, no-one can deny his importance to the team, even fans of other teams rate him.

 

And Maradona and Basile apparently.

 

I dont give a flying horses arse what Maradona or Basile think. When he pulls on the Newcastle shirt, he's been very very average. Works his arse off granted, but from a wide man you want good crosses into the box and to chip in with 5-8 goals a year. I'm not seeing it.

 

I'm a sucker for a hard worker  , so try to forgive Jonas for his other negatives.

[Lotus]

His problem is that he's the only outlet in midfield, he 's the only guy the others can give it to to try and create something, everyone else in midf isn't up to it. He's not Cronaldo or Messi so he can't do all that on his own.

I like him, he's a decent player and, as others have said, with more quality in the team he's be more effective.

As it is, the opposition just have to double up on him everytime he gets the ball and he'll either run into trouble cause he's got no one to pass it forwarsd and square to or wait for him to try and cross it to one of our strikers hiding behind their CB by the back stick.

[Lenny]

It doesnt help that he's doubled up on a lot of the time because teams know he's our only threat. If he was at a decent club he would probably shine because the opposition couldnt afford to do it.

[Elliottman]

The Argentina point is very pertinent.  Hasn't he scored and provided an assist in his last 2 games for them?  Fact is we are poor going forward and rely on the lad too much.  He's trying to force things for us and is getting frustrated and lacking a bit of confidence.  Our best player by some margin in many games this year and it astounds me that he's getting grief.

 

exactly.

[plenum]

It doesnt help that he's doubled up on a lot of the time because teams know he's our only threat. If he was at a decent club he would probably shine because the opposition couldnt afford to do it.

 

True, so true. He needs "a partner" (possibly Lovenkrands?) in midfield that will result in some trickery and split the opposition apart.

[Consortium of one]

It's hard to soar with the eagles when you play with a bunch of turkeys.

 

Who has he played with consistently?

 

The midfield has been a mess and our healthy forwards have been awful.  He has very little talent around him week in and week out.  Whenever he does have talent arounf him, they're coming back from injury or about to be injured.  He's a good support player with nothing to support.

 

He needs a creative central midfielder to play off of and a couple of good, healthy forwards to pass to.

[Mike]

The left side could have been something with Enrique at LB, Jonas on the wing, Zog in CM and Martins up front all working together on a regular basis.

[Jayson]

If enrique overlapped with him more often it would make life a lot easier for him.

He has to learn to cut inside more to...he's so left footed that he always goes on the outside. Makes him to predictable.

[Parky]

The left side could have been something with Enrique at LB, Jonas on the wing, Zog in CM and Martins up front all working together on a regular basis.

 

If only.

[Mike]

If enrique overlapped with him more often it would make life a lot easier for him.

He has to learn to cut inside more to...he's so left footed that he always goes on the outside. Makes him to predictable.

 

Enrique should be the one doing the crossing, imo. Jonas can do the leg work, draw the double team and then feed the ball to Enrique. The forwards should be getting in a position for a cross from Jose, rather than Jonas.

 

When was the last time we scored a goal through buildup in the middle of the pitch?

[Jayson]

If enrique overlapped with him more often it would make life a lot easier for him.

He has to learn to cut inside more to...he's so left footed that he always goes on the outside. Makes him to predictable.

 

Enrique should be the one doing the crossing, imo. Jonas can do the leg work, draw the double team and then feed the ball to Enrique. The forwards should be getting in a position for a cross from Jose, rather than Jonas.

 

When was the last time we scored a goal through buildup in the middle of the pitch?

 

Happened exactly like that once during the hull match, two players on Jonas....Enrique made the run down the line. Gets the ball as one player follows him but he has the advantage of being in full flight...crossed the ball to the near post & none of the striker had anticipated it. Went for a corner for Geremi to waste. Shame they only tried it once.

 

Last goal through middle was from Martins first v aston villa i think ?

 

[TRon]

The left side could have been something with Enrique at LB, Jonas on the wing, Zog in CM and Martins up front all working together on a regular basis.

 

If only.

 

Funny how so many of us could see that being a really exciting prospect, yet our managers seem to think Butt, Smith and Geremi are the midfield answer. Then complain that michael owen didn't score because he needs better service.

[Parky]

The left side could have been something with Enrique at LB, Jonas on the wing, Zog in CM and Martins up front all working together on a regular basis.

 

If only.

 

Funny how so many of us could see that being a really exciting prospect, yet our managers seem to think Butt, Smith and Geremi are the midfield answer. Then complain that michael owen didn't score because he needs better service.

 

It's a simple game really.