Guest Howaythetoon Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 Defending deep is the cause of most of our woes under Kinnear which acts as a snowball effect. It is no coincidence that we're conceding penalties a lot because our defenders are usually on top of Shay in the box as we hold a deep defensive line. The midfield gets sucked in too and the forwards then become isolated or get sucked in as well, forcing us to play on the back foot and to concede not only possession but the initiative. Look what happened when we pushed up after the break, we penned them in and forced them deep. On the ball we pump ridiculous flat long balls forward willy nilly and play too narrow. Our full-backs rarely get forward to the bye line either, they get around the area but play the ball back inside a lot. I've never seen us play so many square balls which are dangerous balls to play as they often get intercepted. We're not good enough and lack the movement in the middle to keep the ball tikcing over like that. When we get to the byeline we need to cross it in or get an overlap going and we just don't do that so we are crossing in balls that the defenders are facing which is piss easy to defend against. This is very basic too which pisses me off no end because Kinnear and Hughton are experience guys and the players themselves, surely they have the savvy to see what works and what doesn't for themselves? Enrique for example pumped in long ball after long ball yet none of them really came off for him so why persist? Clueless the lot of them. We are scrapping goals and conceding silly goals. We are yet to perfom well as a collective and I really do worry for us. Passion, spirit and graft are getting us through but that will soon go, especially as Jan comes with a good number eying the exit doors and the more we lose games which will sap the spirit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Liam Liam O Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 Nail on head. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 Our players must spend more time standing still on the ball than any others, particularly the full backs Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
STM Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 Those tactics beat Villa and West Brom, as well as getting draws against Everton and Man City. I'm not suggesting you don't have some valid points, infact you do but the tactics have worked for us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest michaelfoster Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 we concede too many pens cause Nicky Butt plays Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Heneage Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 Must admit long ball against Hangeland makes no sense. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 Didn't read the post, but read the title and i agree. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
STM Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 By the way, i'm hoping these tactics are temporary, as well as the manager. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shak Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 Kinnear is extremely limited, anyone can see that. He's instilled a good spirit and brought some pride back to our performances. But that said, sooner we get taken over and get a real manager in the better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 Kinnear is extremely limited, anyone can see that. He's instilled a good spirit and brought some pride back to our performances. But that said, sooner we get taken over and get a real manager in the better. Agreed. He's the new Roeder Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prophet Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 So what do you propose we do about it? We're snookered until Ashley sells up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 Those tactics beat Villa and West Brom, as well as getting draws against Everton and Man City. I'm not suggesting you don't have some valid points, infact you do but the tactics have worked for us. No they didn't and nor are they working for us, individualism and space opening up in the final 3rd and someone daring to actually take a chance (Martins with his first and then Jonas running with the ball with Martins again taking a chance to get his second) won us the Villa game. We sat deep against them especially the first half and they had two glorious chances to take the lead as a result which had they, would have resulted in a certain defeat. Against West Brom we sat deep in the second half and give them the half which they scored from. Thankfully we had scored twice ourselves before that to give us a slim cushion. Had we set out like that from the off though we'd have lost that game. Our tactics against Everton and Man City saw us concede first btw. Passion, graft and team-work got us back into those games as well as individualism of course but the trend is there for all to see. Man City dropping off helped us a great deal in that game too. It is no coincidence that we are starting games badly and have to get back into games due to conceding first. This is down to our tactics of sitting deep first and foremost which surrenders territory, initiative and makes it extremely hard to keep possession or regain it. And when we do get on the ball by playing such a one-dimensional game we are basically relying on the opposition to make a mistake or to force a scrappy goal which is exactly the kind we are grabbing. We'd do better with no tactics believe it or not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 Kinnear is extremely limited, anyone can see that. He's instilled a good spirit and brought some pride back to our performances. But that said, sooner we get taken over and get a real manager in the better. Can you stay at home next weekend? We need the points. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ian56 Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 We need new tactics. 1. This is a BALL. BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALL. This BALL goes in the NET. This is called scoring a GOAL. YOU are NOT allowed to use your HANDS. YOU can only use your HEAD or FEET to touch the ball. 2. That bloke over there wearing the same jumper and shorts as you is your TEAM MATE. HE is on YOUR side. YOU pass the ball to HIM. 3. The TEAM that wins is the one who gets the BALL into the NET more than the other team who are NOT wearing the same jumper or shorts as YOURS. 4. TONGUE is NOT allowed when celebrating a GOAL. 5. If the other TEAM scores more GOALS than our TEAM you get YOUR arse KICKED and no more MONEY. Note: Use CRAYONS for Duff. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Heneage Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 Kinnear is worrying me with certain substitutions and player choices. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.S.R. Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 Kinnear is worrying me with certain substitutions and player choices. "Okay, who decided that Cacapa should play?" Kinnear: "I did" "You're a cunt." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 Kinnear is worrying me with certain substitutions and player choices. "Okay, who decided that Cacapa should play?" Kinnear: "I did" "You're a cunt." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtype Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 we're not defending deep and we're not only playing long balls. I think there's a good mix of passing variety. If anything we tend to get into a bit of trouble when our fullbacks push up too hard. I agree that Kinnear has tactical issues, but it's not because of "long-ball." What's worried me is his horrible substitutions and his seeming inability to adapt our shape to the opponent's tactics. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LucaAltieri Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 Sadly Kinnear hasn't had the luxury of finding the players that can pull-off the tactics he wants to use... I don't even pretend to know the tactics he would play given the choice, but it is true that none of those players are his and he has to make do with what was there when he turned up. Our shocking passing has bugger all to do with tactics, we just have crap players. Manager after manager has proven that. Even at the height of Keegan's brief reign we'd still only rarely string a few passes together. As for defending deep; How many times do we need to be punished on the break? Seriously. I've lost count of the goals we've conceded over the last season and a half from one of our attacks breaking down and a fast counter. We really have no other option but to sit deep. With the likes of Martins, N'Zogiba, Jonas, and (to a certain extent) Barton we at least have the speed to mount a counter attack from a defensive position. Our main problem has been getting the ball to them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LucaAltieri Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 we're not defending deep and we're not only playing long balls. I think there's a good mix of passing variety. If anything we tend to get into a bit of trouble when our fullbacks push up too hard. I agree that Kinnear has tactical issues, but it's not because of "long-ball." What's worried me is his horrible substitutions and his seeming inability to adapt our shape to the opponent's tactics. This. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 What I can't figure out is why Barton and Butt are both sitting so deep. I really expected Barton to be driving forward a lot more if Butt is supposedly in the team to protect the back four. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thespence Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 What I can't figure out is why Barton and Butt are both sitting so deep. Because our wingers are our main attacking points & with our CB's not being the best & overall our defence being shit they both sit deep to cover them back four. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_69 Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 We severely lacked pace in midfield today. Duff does a lot of running but creates nothing, Butt and Barton have no pace at all and Jonas is left trying to create everything. Fuck knows what N'Zogbia has done to piss Kinnear off so much but we really need his pace at he moment. OK he's a sulky little cunt, and to be honest i wouldn't be too unhappy to see him leave but at the moment i'd stick him in from the start. Now then Joe, Cacapa.......talk me through that one?! One word for you - Bassong. He's been very impressive whenever he's played this season and you leave him on the bench for the whole game, choosing coco the clown to play instead. On the plus side Enrique was very good and Collicini put in another good performance (penalty aside). That's it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElDiablo Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 Nail on head. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Toon Army from farawa Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 The reason Charlie does get picked is JFK's irish connection. There are a few undroppable under JFK, Butt, Duff and Ameobi. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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