sugoinufc Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Avram had Essien, Makelele, Joe Cole, Carvalho and a focused Drogba. Scolari has not had any of these players either consistently or at all. Avram would not be a good move. He has done nothing outside of stepping in as an interim for Chelsea for a few months. No thanks. Seems like the sort players would walk all over too. Sort of like they did to Roeder. Nah, not for me neither. 1. Makelele was'nt any good at this time 2. Why was Drogba focused, and why isn't he now? 3. Incorrect. It was almost an entire season. On top of this Scolari made his signings in the summer and aside from Bosingwa failed. Grant bought one player, Anelka who has been a very good purchase. I'm not saying Grant is an excellent manager, Im saying that saying he's not good enough for us is preposterous. drogba and essien were brilliant last season....and this season they both been injured alot...dont underestimate the importance of that! grant did well for chelsea....but cant really see him being successful here.....at least not at this point! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syrette Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Essien is more or less their best player and of course they're going to miss him, but it's not like the rest of their central midfield is terribly lacking. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cubaricho Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Avram had Essien The only one that really makes a difference. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gazmatron Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Regardless of anything you guys are saying, he IS better than Joe Kinnear. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaizero Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Regardless of anything you guys are saying, he IS better than Joe Kinnear. Kinnear is a "proven" Premiership manager. Grant is a manager who had one of the world's best squads at his disposal. I'd honestly rather keep Kinnear than try Grant. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thespence Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Get him in & we could see a rise in Toon ticket sales in the Bensham area. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 You look at the performances of the likes of Drogba, Ballack, Terry and Cech in particular in comparison with last season and a pretty telling picture is formed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Regardless of anything you guys are saying, he IS better than Joe Kinnear. Kinnear is a "proven" Premiership manager. Grant is a manager who had one of the world's best squads at his disposal. I'd honestly rather keep Kinnear than try Grant. you're off your fucking head mate. The only thing Kinnear has "proved" in the premiership in the last decade is that he's statistically nufc's worst ever manager bar Ardilles Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Regardless of anything you guys are saying, he IS better than Joe Kinnear. Kinnear is a "proven" Premiership manager. Grant is a manager who had one of the world's best squads at his disposal. I'd honestly rather keep Kinnear than try Grant. you're off your fucking head mate. The only thing Kinnear has "proved" in the premiership in the last decade is that he's statistically nufc's worst ever manager bar Ardilles Classic retort. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thespence Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 You look at the performances of the likes of Drogba, Ballack, Terry and Cech in particular in comparison with last season and a pretty telling picture is formed. They were running the fucking show man not Avram. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaizero Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Regardless of anything you guys are saying, he IS better than Joe Kinnear. Kinnear is a "proven" Premiership manager. Grant is a manager who had one of the world's best squads at his disposal. I'd honestly rather keep Kinnear than try Grant. you're off your fucking head mate. The only thing Kinnear has "proved" in the premiership in the last decade is that he's statistically nufc's worst ever manager bar Ardilles In this decade yes, he did a really great job at Wimbledon though, against all odds. And kept them fighting up in the top ten. Wimbledon in the 90s hardly had a squad as great as Chelsea the one season Grant was in charge of them. Then again maybe you don't remember Wimbledon from the 90s, so the comparison on what is a "proven" Premiership manager working on a shoe string budget compared to "One year at one of the world's richest clubs proven Premiership manager". Football's been around longer than the last decade you know, as has the Premiership. I'm not saying Kinnear is a good manager, I've been all for sacking him as I'm certain we could do better. But Avram Grant is not better, he's just a man that's managed Chelsea for one season so everybody spunks at the thought of having an ex-Chelsea manager at the club. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 You look at the performances of the likes of Drogba, Ballack, Terry and Cech in particular in comparison with last season and a pretty telling picture is formed. They were running the f***ing show man not Avram. Yup. Avram is a pushover a la Roeder. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 I cant believe people would rather have Kinnear. Exactly what are you basing that on? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaizero Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 I cant believe people would rather have Kinnear. Exactly what are you basing that on? His record with Wimbledon, not the best squad and shoe string budgets compared to Grant's one year at Chelsea with a gazillion in his budget and a squad full of already made stars. Neither is good enough for us though, but Kinnear is the lesser of the two evils. Not to mention I've made a fairly long post going on about what I base it on just two posts above yours Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredbob Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 I cant believe people would rather have Kinnear. Exactly what are you basing that on? His record with Wimbledon, not the best squad and shoe string budgets compared to Grant's one year at Chelsea with a gazillion in his budget and a squad full of already made stars. Neither is good enough for us though, but Kinnear is the lesser of the two evils. Not to mention I've made a fairly long post going on about what I base it on just two posts above yours Fucking hell, Im not the biggest fan of Grant myself but Im really struggling to see where your coming from. Grant is worthy of an appointment on the basis of alone that he's not Kinnear, its difficult to say he did a brilliant job at Chelsea, Id like to see how kinnear would do at Chelsea in the exact same circumstances, my guess is that CL final, PL runner up and Carling Cup runners up would be nothing but a pipe dream in Jose's little potato head. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaizero Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 I cant believe people would rather have Kinnear. Exactly what are you basing that on? His record with Wimbledon, not the best squad and shoe string budgets compared to Grant's one year at Chelsea with a gazillion in his budget and a squad full of already made stars. Neither is good enough for us though, but Kinnear is the lesser of the two evils. Not to mention I've made a fairly long post going on about what I base it on just two posts above yours Fucking hell, Im not the biggest fan of Grant myself but Im really struggling to see where your coming from. Grant is worthy of an appointment on the basis of alone that he's not Kinnear, its difficult to say he did a brilliant job at Chelsea, Id like to see how kinnear would do at Chelsea in the exact same circumstances, my guess is that CL final, PL runner up and Carling Cup runners up would be nothing but a pipe dream in Jose's little potato head. You can't compare it that way though, as our situation at the time Keegan left didn't call out for someone who had managed a major club, it called out for someone to come in and stabilize the ship. And when nobody else came in, we got Kinnear. And he was probably quite a long way down on Ashley's "to-call list". On the other hand, he has experience from handling a situation similar to our current financial predicament, and has done well in the past with a shit side by hammering into their heads a "us against the world" mentality, just what we appeared to be needed, and still seem to need at the moment. Having appointed Avram Grant at the same time would perhaps have been a better choice of manager on paper, but he has never been used to a shoe-string budget, nor a relegation fight or to attempt keeping morale up in a club the entire world seemed to think would blow up due to all the turmoil. He has a name, that's it. We don't know his ability with a club that's not filthy rich and already have a successful squad. I'd not have been willing to take such a chance on a manager just because of his name, hence why I think Kinnear under our current circumstances is the better option of the two. And will remain the better option until we have a bottomless transfer kitty or an already successful squad. Though then again, we'd not be looking at Grant as he'd not be good enough anyways. Kinnear is a manager for teams that have an uphill struggle. Grant is a manager for teams that don't have any struggle because the players are good enough to work without a manager. I'm amazed people even need to think about who'd they'd rather have of Kinnear and Grant. Just because Kinnear hasn't done all too well with us, does not mean Grant would have done better. I'd gladly put all my money on the contrary. I still think neither are good enough for us though, as I've said before. I just think Kinnear is the obvious lesser evil here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredbob Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 I cant believe people would rather have Kinnear. Exactly what are you basing that on? His record with Wimbledon, not the best squad and shoe string budgets compared to Grant's one year at Chelsea with a gazillion in his budget and a squad full of already made stars. Neither is good enough for us though, but Kinnear is the lesser of the two evils. Not to mention I've made a fairly long post going on about what I base it on just two posts above yours Fucking hell, Im not the biggest fan of Grant myself but Im really struggling to see where your coming from. Grant is worthy of an appointment on the basis of alone that he's not Kinnear, its difficult to say he did a brilliant job at Chelsea, Id like to see how kinnear would do at Chelsea in the exact same circumstances, my guess is that CL final, PL runner up and Carling Cup runners up would be nothing but a pipe dream in Jose's little potato head. You can't compare it that way though, as our situation at the time Keegan left didn't call out for someone who had managed a major club, it called out for someone to come in and stabilize the ship. And when nobody else came in, we got Kinnear. And he was probably quite a long way down on Ashley's "to-call list". On the other hand, he has experience from handling a situation similar to our current financial predicament, and has done well in the past with a shit side by hammering into their heads a "us against the world" mentality, just what we appeared to be needed, and still seem to need at the moment. Having appointed Avram Grant at the same time would perhaps have been a better choice of manager on paper, but he has never been used to a shoe-string budget, nor a relegation fight or to attempt keeping morale up in a club the entire world seemed to think would blow up due to all the turmoil. He has a name, that's it. We don't know his ability with a club that's not filthy rich and already have a successful squad. I'd not have been willing to take such a chance on a manager just because of his name, hence why I think Kinnear under our current circumstances is the better option of the two. And will remain the better option until we have a bottomless transfer kitty or an already successful squad. Though then again, we'd not be looking at Grant as he'd not be good enough anyways. Kinnear is a manager for teams that have an uphill struggle. Grant is a manager for teams that don't have any struggle because the players are good enough to work without a manager. I'm amazed people even need to think about who'd they'd rather have of Kinnear and Grant. Just because Kinnear hasn't done all too well with us, does not mean Grant would have done better. I'd gladly put all my money on the contrary. I still think neither are good enough for us though, as I've said before. I just think Kinnear is the obvious lesser evil here. We got Kinnear becasue he's the only man who'd take it on such a temp basis, I'm sorry i really dont see your point, a good manager will be able to coach good play into good players, style of football has nothing to do with this, nor does mentiality, nor history, there should be no other criteria for suitablilty for the job other than the most suitable candidate for the job being the manager who will do the best with the players we have through good management. The mere fact that Kinnear has battled so many relegations is becasue he's a poor manager who allows his teams to get to that sitatuion through poor management. Although Grant has only delved once into European football at Chelseas, Im pretty confident that he's managed on budgets at the clubs he's been at. I mentioned Kinnear at Chelsea becasue it lends itself to a fair comparision of what how you percieve there skill levels, for me there is no way Kinnear would of achieved what Grant did (or didnt achieve) so what Im syaing is that with the stregnth of Chleseas squad not being a variable between the 2 compairiosn, any difference would be the skill of the manager, which is why i think Grant would shit all over Kinnear. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 The big difference with the premier experience is 'then' as in the 90's with kinnear in a team constantly fighting relegation and 'now' as in last season grant taking Chelsea within a whisker of winning the Champions League and the title. Kinnear was managing Nottingham Forest before us, ask any fan of there's whether he cries 'Premiership experience manager' over someone like Avram Grant. I have, and the answer was a clear 'no' Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 From the day Grant got the job onwards, he accumulated more points than a Man U team many rank as the best they've seen in world football for years. Hell of an achievment tbh Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syrette Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 I can't believe someone rates Kinnear over a CL finalist who took the title fight all the way to the last weekend (regardless of the quality of his squad). Come on man, Grant has not really done too badly with his other teams either, and has yet to really manage an English side where he can really prove himself (by this I mean in terms of the length of his reign, and to a lesser extent, with a squad of less quality than Chelsea's). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Drogba missed half the season, Lampard was far from his brilliant best, quite remarkable that Grant got them to within a kick of being the champions of Europe. Their football also was pretty damn good to watch btw Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 From the day Grant got the job onwards, he accumulated more points than a Man U team many rank as the best they've seen in world football for years. Hell of an achievment tbh Interesting, I didnt know that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slugsy Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Anyone who would rather have Kinnear than Grant needs their head read. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sicko2ndbest Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 For me it would be like replacing a 1982 lada with 1989 skoda Grant did ok as the players were still in Mourinhos mindset. Grant brings nothing to the table and would be a complete failure here! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 For me it would be like replacing a 1982 lada with 1989 skoda Grant did ok as the players were still in Mourinhos mindset. Grant brings nothing to the table and would be a complete failure here! key point for me Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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