He's back?

[johnnypd]

i dont think there's anything wrong with investing in a scouting system to get in the best youngsters, a youth system to develop them, and then a network of contacts to find the up and coming players that might not be so obvious. in fact, any club worth its salt these days should be investing in that type of behind the scenes infastructure. in the shepherd days we lacked this and it resulted in a lot of money going down the pan. When Roeder was here we apparently had one senior scout - that is farcical.

 

but it can be taken too far if it undermines the manager and therefore the squad. the above is primarily to help the first team perform better, if it isnt doing that then it isnt working effectively. if Ashley is committed to being here for the long-term he'll have to think long and hard about the structure, maybe another of chris mort's strategic reviews is in order. though it doesnt mean we have to miss out on the next bassong or jonas - keep the likes of Vetere, Fucillo and add to them.

[UV]

Does anyone know exactly what the "scouting system" consists of? To my knowledge/understanding it was just Vetere the international scout, Wise the lower league scout and boss of the team, and Jiminez the agent contact "scout" and negotiator. Jiminez has now gone & hasn't been replaced, but was/is there anything more to it than that? I stand to be corrected, but that's hardly a worldwide network of scouts as is being painted.

 

If it's simply a case that Vetere is a good scout, then it's hardly a massive reason to hope we keep going with a system designed with a high turnover of managers in mind to smooth the transition between managers (great work there eh), or even to hope Ashley stays on as owner. I don't think anyone has any problem with someone other than the manager having full control of the Academy, although if we're looking to build a top class one it would have been nice to get in a top class person to run it.

 

Like johnnypd I think Ashley brought in the system to keep a lid on expenses and to bring in players who would increase in value and be sold on at a profit. A massive difference from the idea of buying in the best young talent to build a long term successful team. I know most were overjoyed at the sale of Milner for so much, but the unwillingness we had to negotiate his contract, and his subsequent sale don't signal the intention that we are going to try too hard to hang on to the young players we bring in who do turn out to be any good.

 

Throwing money at big name signings isn't an option - partly because we don't have the finance...

 

Why not? £18m extra TV revenue in 07-08, no interest payments to make, reduced wage bill, money from advance season ticket sales. Where has all the money gone?

[Dan Gleebals]

Does anyone know exactly what the "scouting system" consists of? To my knowledge/understanding it was just Vetere the international scout, Wise the lower league scout and boss of the team, and Jiminez the agent contact "scout" and negotiator. Jiminez has now gone & hasn't been replaced, but was/is there anything more to it than that? I stand to be corrected, but that's hardly a worldwide network of scouts as is being painted.

 

If it's simply a case that Vetere is a good scout, then it's hardly a massive reason to hope we keep going with a system designed with a high turnover of managers in mind to smooth the transition between managers (great work there eh), or even to hope Ashley stays on as owner. I don't think anyone has any problem with someone other than the manager having full control of the Academy, although if we're looking to build a top class one it would have been nice to get in a top class person to run it.

 

Like johnnypd I think Ashley brought in the system to keep a lid on expenses and to bring in players who would increase in value and be sold on at a profit. A massive difference from the idea of buying in the best young talent to build a long term successful team. I know most were overjoyed at the sale of Milner for so much, but the unwillingness we had to negotiate his contract, and his subsequent sale don't signal the intention that we are going to try too hard to hang on to the young players we bring in who do turn out to be any good.

 

Throwing money at big name signings isn't an option - partly because we don't have the finance...

 

Why not? £18m extra TV revenue in 07-08, no interest payments to make, reduced wage bill, money from advance season ticket sales. Where has all the money gone?

 

 

Perhaps it had gone towards repaying some of the 100m he put into reduce all the debt in the first place?

[Colos Short and Curlies]

Does anyone know exactly what the "scouting system" consists of? To my knowledge/understanding it was just Vetere the international scout, Wise the lower league scout and boss of the team, and Jiminez the agent contact "scout" and negotiator. Jiminez has now gone & hasn't been replaced, but was/is there anything more to it than that? I stand to be corrected, but that's hardly a worldwide network of scouts as is being painted.

 

If it's simply a case that Vetere is a good scout, then it's hardly a massive reason to hope we keep going with a system designed with a high turnover of managers in mind to smooth the transition between managers (great work there eh), or even to hope Ashley stays on as owner. I don't think anyone has any problem with someone other than the manager having full control of the Academy, although if we're looking to build a top class one it would have been nice to get in a top class person to run it.

 

Like johnnypd I think Ashley brought in the system to keep a lid on expenses and to bring in players who would increase in value and be sold on at a profit. A massive difference from the idea of buying in the best young talent to build a long term successful team. I know most were overjoyed at the sale of Milner for so much, but the unwillingness we had to negotiate his contract, and his subsequent sale don't signal the intention that we are going to try too hard to hang on to the young players we bring in who do turn out to be any good.

 

Throwing money at big name signings isn't an option - partly because we don't have the finance...

 

Why not? £18m extra TV revenue in 07-08, no interest payments to make, reduced wage bill, money from advance season ticket sales. Where has all the money gone?

 

£18m extra TV revenue in 07-08 - all clubs will benefit from an increase no? Therefore the increase in revenue will translate to higher prices being paid

 

No interest payments to make - small fry in the scale of things and probably partly exchanged for dividends to MA

 

Reduced wage bill - Do we really want to see the type of money offered to mid-range players just to make them move North that we have in the past? Agreed that this should free up some money though.

 

Money from advance season ticket sales - Spend it all upfront or 'bank' the cash for transfers in subsequent seasons?

 

Anyone who believes that the advance ticket sales were a ploy to increase the immediate transfer kitty is misguided. It was simply an option given to lock people in and guarantee the funds. I personally would have been disappointed if the advance pot had been spent this summer, reducing any available funds in the future

[NE5]

Does anyone know exactly what the "scouting system" consists of? To my knowledge/understanding it was just Vetere the international scout, Wise the lower league scout and boss of the team, and Jiminez the agent contact "scout" and negotiator. Jiminez has now gone & hasn't been replaced, but was/is there anything more to it than that? I stand to be corrected, but that's hardly a worldwide network of scouts as is being painted.

 

If it's simply a case that Vetere is a good scout, then it's hardly a massive reason to hope we keep going with a system designed with a high turnover of managers in mind to smooth the transition between managers (great work there eh), or even to hope Ashley stays on as owner. I don't think anyone has any problem with someone other than the manager having full control of the Academy, although if we're looking to build a top class one it would have been nice to get in a top class person to run it.

 

Like johnnypd I think Ashley brought in the system to keep a lid on expenses and to bring in players who would increase in value and be sold on at a profit. A massive difference from the idea of buying in the best young talent to build a long term successful team. I know most were overjoyed at the sale of Milner for so much, but the unwillingness we had to negotiate his contract, and his subsequent sale don't signal the intention that we are going to try too hard to hang on to the young players we bring in who do turn out to be any good.

 

Throwing money at big name signings isn't an option - partly because we don't have the finance...

 

Why not? £18m extra TV revenue in 07-08, no interest payments to make, reduced wage bill, money from advance season ticket sales. Where has all the money gone?

 

I don't think there is any doubt that Ashley had the idea to find players at low cost and sell them on. As Johnnypd also said, a few announcements made over a year ago clearly signalled this intent.

 

Which is really no good to a club like us. Its behaving like a 2nd rate club, not the big progressive club which we ought to be. Which leads me on to bobyule's comment about "throwing money at big name players". What do you think the other clubs do, do they or do they not buy "big name players". What is the fixation that some of you people have with this attitude that you don't want the club to buy top footballers, then you say on the other hand that we are one of the biggest clubs in the country.

 

What a small time attitude. I can guarantee you one thing, a few more years of Ashley, and you will be screaming for the club to buy these so called "trophy players", or "big name players" again, just like the other trophy winners do. You have seen where the penny pinching leads. Its already lost the manager who could have put us back whereabouts he did the first time, you still haven't learned.

 

What a load of cliche ridden bollocks.

 

Only a few people opposed the sale of Milner, given the fee, and fair enough they are entitled to their opinion of him as a player and his worth. But any progressive club would have handed the manager the money - at least - and told him to go out and buy someone to strengthen the team elsewhere with it, being that Guittierez had came in and was ready to take Milners place. Good scouting ? Of course it is, but poor reactions.

 

 

[Kitman]

Why not? £18m extra TV revenue in 07-08, no interest payments to make, reduced wage bill, money from advance season ticket sales. Where has all the money gone?

 

In all probability it's gone on ill advised spread betting or lucky number 13 at the Golden Nugget, with a kebab for afters with the money left over

[Kitman]

Does anyone know exactly what the "scouting system" consists of? To my knowledge/understanding it was just Vetere the international scout, Wise the lower league scout and boss of the team, and Jiminez the agent contact "scout" and negotiator. Jiminez has now gone & hasn't been replaced, but was/is there anything more to it than that? I stand to be corrected, but that's hardly a worldwide network of scouts as is being painted.

 

If it's simply a case that Vetere is a good scout, then it's hardly a massive reason to hope we keep going with a system designed with a high turnover of managers in mind to smooth the transition between managers (great work there eh), or even to hope Ashley stays on as owner. I don't think anyone has any problem with someone other than the manager having full control of the Academy, although if we're looking to build a top class one it would have been nice to get in a top class person to run it.

 

Like johnnypd I think Ashley brought in the system to keep a lid on expenses and to bring in players who would increase in value and be sold on at a profit. A massive difference from the idea of buying in the best young talent to build a long term successful team. I know most were overjoyed at the sale of Milner for so much, but the unwillingness we had to negotiate his contract, and his subsequent sale don't signal the intention that we are going to try too hard to hang on to the young players we bring in who do turn out to be any good.

 

Throwing money at big name signings isn't an option - partly because we don't have the finance...

 

Why not? £18m extra TV revenue in 07-08, no interest payments to make, reduced wage bill, money from advance season ticket sales. Where has all the money gone?

 

I don't think there is any doubt that Ashley had the idea to find players at low cost and sell them on. As Johnnypd also said, a few announcements made over a year ago clearly signalled this intent.

 

Which is really no good to a club like us. Its behaving like a 2nd rate club, not the big progressive club which we ought to be. Which leads me on to bobyule's comment about "throwing money at big name players". What do you think the other clubs do, do they or do they not buy "big name players". What is the fixation that some of you people have with this attitude that you don't want the club to buy top footballers, then you say on the other hand that we are one of the biggest clubs in the country.

 

What a small time attitude. I can guarantee you one thing, a few more years of Ashley, and you will be screaming for the club to buy these so called "trophy players", or "big name players" again, just like the other trophy winners do. You have seen where the penny pinching leads. Its already lost the manager who could have put us back whereabouts he did the first time, you still haven't learned.

 

What a load of cliche ridden bollocks.

 

Only a few people opposed the sale of Milner, given the fee, and fair enough they are entitled to their opinion of him as a player and his worth. But any progressive club would have handed the manager the money - at least - and told him to go out and buy someone to strengthen the team elsewhere with it, being that Guittierez had came in and was ready to take Milners place. Good scouting ? Of course it is, but poor reactions.

 

 

 

To put a slightly different way, it makes good sense to scout and sign good prospects but they won't develop into top footballers overnight.  In the meantime you have to have a squad fit to compete and that costs money unless you have a reserve team stuffed full of talent, which we didn't.  it was obvious to everyone, including every manager from Roeder onwards, that the squad was thin and needed building up and that needed investment.  We haven't invested enough on players for the first team, it's that simple.

[NE5]

Why not? £18m extra TV revenue in 07-08, no interest payments to make, reduced wage bill, money from advance season ticket sales. Where has all the money gone?

 

In all probability it's gone on ill advised spread betting or lucky number 13 at the Golden Nugget, with a kebab for afters with the money left over

 

ah, now THAT [ie all that buying people beer and sitting with his NUFC top on] was obviously all PR bollocks and a complete sham at the time too. Amazed so many people actually thought it was anything else.

 

 

 

[ToonTastic]

There is no need for Ashley to apologise, his vision and infrastructure he was implementing  was the best thing that happened to this club in a very long time. The only mistakes he made was hiring Llambias, should have been someone with experience in Football and the other was joining the fans in the Terraces, listening to all the Geordie sentimentalists talking about the good old days when Keegan was in charge and if he hired him, he would bring back the those glory days.

 

And Wise who has had no experience in that role whatsoever and was hired in a jobs for the boys role.

[Colos Short and Curlies]

Does anyone know exactly what the "scouting system" consists of? To my knowledge/understanding it was just Vetere the international scout, Wise the lower league scout and boss of the team, and Jiminez the agent contact "scout" and negotiator. Jiminez has now gone & hasn't been replaced, but was/is there anything more to it than that? I stand to be corrected, but that's hardly a worldwide network of scouts as is being painted.

 

If it's simply a case that Vetere is a good scout, then it's hardly a massive reason to hope we keep going with a system designed with a high turnover of managers in mind to smooth the transition between managers (great work there eh), or even to hope Ashley stays on as owner. I don't think anyone has any problem with someone other than the manager having full control of the Academy, although if we're looking to build a top class one it would have been nice to get in a top class person to run it.

 

Like johnnypd I think Ashley brought in the system to keep a lid on expenses and to bring in players who would increase in value and be sold on at a profit. A massive difference from the idea of buying in the best young talent to build a long term successful team. I know most were overjoyed at the sale of Milner for so much, but the unwillingness we had to negotiate his contract, and his subsequent sale don't signal the intention that we are going to try too hard to hang on to the young players we bring in who do turn out to be any good.

 

Throwing money at big name signings isn't an option - partly because we don't have the finance...

 

Why not? £18m extra TV revenue in 07-08, no interest payments to make, reduced wage bill, money from advance season ticket sales. Where has all the money gone?

 

I don't think there is any doubt that Ashley had the idea to find players at low cost and sell them on. As Johnnypd also said, a few announcements made over a year ago clearly signalled this intent.

 

Which is really no good to a club like us. Its behaving like a 2nd rate club, not the big progressive club which we ought to be. Which leads me on to bobyule's comment about "throwing money at big name players". What do you think the other clubs do, do they or do they not buy "big name players". What is the fixation that some of you people have with this attitude that you don't want the club to buy top footballers, then you say on the other hand that we are one of the biggest clubs in the country.

 

What a small time attitude. I can guarantee you one thing, a few more years of Ashley, and you will be screaming for the club to buy these so called "trophy players", or "big name players" again, just like the other trophy winners do. You have seen where the penny pinching leads. Its already lost the manager who could have put us back whereabouts he did the first time, you still haven't learned.

 

What a load of cliche ridden bollocks.

 

Only a few people opposed the sale of Milner, given the fee, and fair enough they are entitled to their opinion of him as a player and his worth. But any progressive club would have handed the manager the money - at least - and told him to go out and buy someone to strengthen the team elsewhere with it, being that Guittierez had came in and was ready to take Milners place. Good scouting ? Of course it is, but poor reactions.

 

 

 

But do you agree that at this point in time the last thing we need is for £20m to be spend on one player leaving nothing left to strengthen the rest of the squad?

 

I would love to see a Robinho here, but not if it means having Babayaro and Carr at full back.

 

All too often we've spent big on one player then scrimped elsewhere - hence the 'Trophey Player' tag.

 

Man U and Chelsea can afford to spend big on individual players as they have built up their squad over a period of time, likewise Liverpool two years ago felt that they had a strong enough first team squad to spend £25m on Torres (give or take a couple of mil). This summer they spent big on Keane, but many dipper fans are crying out for stronger full backs now.

 

We can't, spending £5m on 4 players would improve us short term more than one £20m player (who would get injured anyway knowing our luck!)

 

Of course should we get to a top 6 position I would expect £5m players to become £10m etc, but thats for the future

[NE5]

Does anyone know exactly what the "scouting system" consists of? To my knowledge/understanding it was just Vetere the international scout, Wise the lower league scout and boss of the team, and Jiminez the agent contact "scout" and negotiator. Jiminez has now gone & hasn't been replaced, but was/is there anything more to it than that? I stand to be corrected, but that's hardly a worldwide network of scouts as is being painted.

 

If it's simply a case that Vetere is a good scout, then it's hardly a massive reason to hope we keep going with a system designed with a high turnover of managers in mind to smooth the transition between managers (great work there eh), or even to hope Ashley stays on as owner. I don't think anyone has any problem with someone other than the manager having full control of the Academy, although if we're looking to build a top class one it would have been nice to get in a top class person to run it.

 

Like johnnypd I think Ashley brought in the system to keep a lid on expenses and to bring in players who would increase in value and be sold on at a profit. A massive difference from the idea of buying in the best young talent to build a long term successful team. I know most were overjoyed at the sale of Milner for so much, but the unwillingness we had to negotiate his contract, and his subsequent sale don't signal the intention that we are going to try too hard to hang on to the young players we bring in who do turn out to be any good.

 

Throwing money at big name signings isn't an option - partly because we don't have the finance...

 

Why not? £18m extra TV revenue in 07-08, no interest payments to make, reduced wage bill, money from advance season ticket sales. Where has all the money gone?

 

I don't think there is any doubt that Ashley had the idea to find players at low cost and sell them on. As Johnnypd also said, a few announcements made over a year ago clearly signalled this intent.

 

Which is really no good to a club like us. Its behaving like a 2nd rate club, not the big progressive club which we ought to be. Which leads me on to bobyule's comment about "throwing money at big name players". What do you think the other clubs do, do they or do they not buy "big name players". What is the fixation that some of you people have with this attitude that you don't want the club to buy top footballers, then you say on the other hand that we are one of the biggest clubs in the country.

 

What a small time attitude. I can guarantee you one thing, a few more years of Ashley, and you will be screaming for the club to buy these so called "trophy players", or "big name players" again, just like the other trophy winners do. You have seen where the penny pinching leads. Its already lost the manager who could have put us back whereabouts he did the first time, you still haven't learned.

 

What a load of cliche ridden bollocks.

 

Only a few people opposed the sale of Milner, given the fee, and fair enough they are entitled to their opinion of him as a player and his worth. But any progressive club would have handed the manager the money - at least - and told him to go out and buy someone to strengthen the team elsewhere with it, being that Guittierez had came in and was ready to take Milners place. Good scouting ? Of course it is, but poor reactions.

 

 

 

To put a slightly different way, it makes good sense to scout and sign good prospects but they won't develop into top footballers overnight.  In the meantime you have to have a squad fit to compete and that costs money unless you have a reserve team stuffed full of talent, which we didn't.  it was obvious to everyone, including every manager from Roeder onwards, that the squad was thin and needed building up and that needed investment.  We haven't invested enough on players for the first team, it's that simple.

 

of course. Even the building of the young players isn't guaranteed. How many top potential players at this club have faded away over the years ? Its the same everywhere, not just here. It isn't too often that a youth policy throws together a solid core of 4 or 5 players that make the grade to the first team, of a successful and quality team.

 

Success costs money. You need players the other top clubs themselves want. End of story.

 

 

[Tooj]

There is no need for Ashley to apologise, his vision and infrastructure he was implementing  was the best thing that happened to this club in a very long time. The only mistakes he made was hiring Llambias, should have been someone with experience in Football and the other was joining the fans in the Terraces, listening to all the Geordie sentimentalists talking about the good old days when Keegan was in charge and if he hired him, he would bring back the those glory days.

 

Look towards the end of last season at how he got the team playing compared to the previous manager, with the right backing I think we'd have given it a good shot under Keegan. Due to the financial gap between us and the top four I think that was unrealistic, but the feel good factor was certainly back. So who knows where he would have taken us, something we'll never know unfortunately.

[UV]

£18m extra TV revenue in 07-08 - all clubs will benefit from an increase no? Therefore the increase in revenue will translate to higher prices being paid

 

Only if you're buying from each other or competing with another PL club for a player. We are much stonger financially than most other European or lower league clubs. Anyway, most other clubs spent their windfall on transfer fees, and on raising their wage bill closer to ours which is why we by not spending it are dropping back into the pack.

 

No interest payments to make - small fry in the scale of things and probably partly exchanged for dividends to MA

 

So effectively we might as well still have the debt.

 

Money from advance season ticket sales - Spend it all upfront or 'bank' the cash for transfers in subsequent seasons?

 

That's fine if Ashley stays, but would the money still have been there if he'd been able to sell up as he wanted or if he sells in the Summer? I'm not as convinced as most his desire to sell up started in September.

[NE5]

Does anyone know exactly what the "scouting system" consists of? To my knowledge/understanding it was just Vetere the international scout, Wise the lower league scout and boss of the team, and Jiminez the agent contact "scout" and negotiator. Jiminez has now gone & hasn't been replaced, but was/is there anything more to it than that? I stand to be corrected, but that's hardly a worldwide network of scouts as is being painted.

 

If it's simply a case that Vetere is a good scout, then it's hardly a massive reason to hope we keep going with a system designed with a high turnover of managers in mind to smooth the transition between managers (great work there eh), or even to hope Ashley stays on as owner. I don't think anyone has any problem with someone other than the manager having full control of the Academy, although if we're looking to build a top class one it would have been nice to get in a top class person to run it.

 

Like johnnypd I think Ashley brought in the system to keep a lid on expenses and to bring in players who would increase in value and be sold on at a profit. A massive difference from the idea of buying in the best young talent to build a long term successful team. I know most were overjoyed at the sale of Milner for so much, but the unwillingness we had to negotiate his contract, and his subsequent sale don't signal the intention that we are going to try too hard to hang on to the young players we bring in who do turn out to be any good.

 

Throwing money at big name signings isn't an option - partly because we don't have the finance...

 

Why not? £18m extra TV revenue in 07-08, no interest payments to make, reduced wage bill, money from advance season ticket sales. Where has all the money gone?

 

I don't think there is any doubt that Ashley had the idea to find players at low cost and sell them on. As Johnnypd also said, a few announcements made over a year ago clearly signalled this intent.

 

Which is really no good to a club like us. Its behaving like a 2nd rate club, not the big progressive club which we ought to be. Which leads me on to bobyule's comment about "throwing money at big name players". What do you think the other clubs do, do they or do they not buy "big name players". What is the fixation that some of you people have with this attitude that you don't want the club to buy top footballers, then you say on the other hand that we are one of the biggest clubs in the country.

 

What a small time attitude. I can guarantee you one thing, a few more years of Ashley, and you will be screaming for the club to buy these so called "trophy players", or "big name players" again, just like the other trophy winners do. You have seen where the penny pinching leads. Its already lost the manager who could have put us back whereabouts he did the first time, you still haven't learned.

 

What a load of cliche ridden bollocks.

 

Only a few people opposed the sale of Milner, given the fee, and fair enough they are entitled to their opinion of him as a player and his worth. But any progressive club would have handed the manager the money - at least - and told him to go out and buy someone to strengthen the team elsewhere with it, being that Guittierez had came in and was ready to take Milners place. Good scouting ? Of course it is, but poor reactions.

 

 

 

But do you agree that at this point in time the last thing we need is for £20m to be spend on one player leaving nothing left to strengthen the rest of the squad?

 

I would love to see a Robinho here, but not if it means having Babayaro and Carr at full back.

 

All too often we've spent big on one player then scrimped elsewhere - hence the 'Trophey Player' tag.

 

Man U and Chelsea can afford to spend big on individual players as they have built up their squad over a period of time, likewise Liverpool two years ago felt that they had a strong enough first team squad to spend £25m on Torres (give or take a couple of mil). This summer they spent big on Keane, but many dipper fans are crying out for stronger full backs now.

 

We can't, spending £5m on 4 players would improve us short term more than one £20m player (who would get injured anyway knowing our luck!)

 

Of course should we get to a top 6 position I would expect £5m players to become £10m etc, but thats for the future

 

I've got to go now, I'll try and get back later to this, you have a fair point when you talk about a figure of 32m quid, but also bear in mind that generally speaking forward players cost more than defenders which has always correctly been the case ie a lot more money is spent on forwards than defenders by every successful club.

 

 

[Dave]

What would Ashley have to do to convince you he's right for Newcastle United, NE5?

 

I mean to put this debacle completely to bed, for you - assuming any sale is off.

 

Is it purely and simply about spending money? So if the club spent £20m net this window you'd be convinced and happy?

 

Genuine questions btw, please don't bring up the usual stuff about the old lot.

[Baggio]

Like johnnypd I think Ashley brought in the system to keep a lid on expenses and to bring in players who would increase in value and be sold on at a profit. A massive difference from the idea of buying in the best young talent to build a long term successful team. I know most were overjoyed at the sale of Milner for so much, but the unwillingness we had to negotiate his contract, and his subsequent sale don't signal the intention that we are going to try too hard to hang on to the young players we bring in who do turn out to be any good.

 

I don't see how either you or Johnny can say what he was planning to do, the idea behind bringing in younger players is that it does cut down on expenses in that you have them develop at your club rather than have them develop somewhere else, our biggest problem in the Summer was that we didn't buy enough of them but who's fault that was I don't know.

 

As for Milner, Are you for real? He was fucking shite, man. Even the Villa fans think so yet we should have tried to keep even though we sold him for double what he was worth?! Madness.

[UV]

What would Ashley have to do to convince you he's right for Newcastle United, NE5?

 

I mean to put this debacle completely to bed, for you - assuming any sale is off.

 

Is it purely and simply about spending money? So if the club spent £20m net this window you'd be convinced and happy?

 

Genuine questions btw, please don't bring up the usual stuff about the old lot.

 

Personally, I'd be appeased, but no more.

 

If he spends money now I will think he's doing it because he feels he has to (to keep his investment in the PL) not because he wants to (to improve the team as much as he can year on year).

 

It would take years of him regularly putting every penny of the club's self generated revenue back into the club as a minimum before I would believe in Ashley now (and that doesn't include paying off the debts to himself).

[Colos Short and Curlies]

£18m extra TV revenue in 07-08 - all clubs will benefit from an increase no? Therefore the increase in revenue will translate to higher prices being paid

 

Only if you're buying from each other or competing with another PL club for a player. We are much stonger financially than most other European or lower league clubs. Anyway, most other clubs spent their windfall on transfer fees, and on raising their wage bill closer to ours which is why we by not spending it are dropping back into the pack.

 

No interest payments to make - small fry in the scale of things and probably partly exchanged for dividends to MA

 

So effectively we might as well still have the debt.

 

Money from advance season ticket sales - Spend it all upfront or 'bank' the cash for transfers in subsequent seasons?

 

That's fine if Ashley stays, but would the money still have been there if he'd been able to sell up as he wanted or if he sells in the Summer? I'm not as convinced as most his desire to sell up started in September.

 

IF he was trying to sell then putting cash onto the Balance is a bad idea as no investor would want to pay a premium for cash.

 

Also, by taking it upfront Ashley has created a liability to the club in terms of future obligations, if he took out the cash then the value of the club decreases.

 

In short, other than a pretty pointless 'look at the guaranteed income' exercise (I say pretty pointless as I guess that the number of people paying upfront is less than 50% of ticket holders and past performance would suggest crowds well in advance of 26k going forward), having the cash up front does little for the total value Ashley could extract from the club.

[Dave]

What would Ashley have to do to convince you he's right for Newcastle United, NE5?

 

I mean to put this debacle completely to bed, for you - assuming any sale is off.

 

Is it purely and simply about spending money? So if the club spent £20m net this window you'd be convinced and happy?

 

Genuine questions btw, please don't bring up the usual stuff about the old lot.

 

Personally, I'd be appeased, but no more.

 

If he spends money now I will think he's doing it because he feels he has to (to keep his investment in the PL) not because he wants to (to improve the team as much as he can year on year).

 

It would take years of him regularly putting every penny of the club's self generated revenue back into the club as a minimum before I would believe in Ashley now (and that doesn't include paying off the debts to himself).

 

Fair enough, though the bit about needing/wanting to put the money in is quite harsh IMO. I realise he's burnt many bridges but I suppose the only acid test as you say would be him not only putting in money to ensure we got out of trouble, but to continue the spending to push us further.

 

What concerns me should that happen is the Kinnear situation. He's done a decent job in steadying the ship but fuck me, I wouldn't want him in charge of £20m spending sprees.

[mrmojorisin75]

What would Ashley have to do to convince you he's right for Newcastle United, NE5?

 

I mean to put this debacle completely to bed, for you - assuming any sale is off.

 

Is it purely and simply about spending money? So if the club spent £20m net this window you'd be convinced and happy?

 

Genuine questions btw, please don't bring up the usual stuff about the old lot.

 

Personally, I'd be appeased, but no more.

 

If he spends money now I will think he's doing it because he feels he has to (to keep his investment in the PL) not because he wants to (to improve the team as much as he can year on year).

 

It would take years of him regularly putting every penny of the club's self generated revenue back into the club as a minimum before I would believe in Ashley now (and that doesn't include paying off the debts to himself).

 

Fair enough, though the bit about needing/wanting to put the money in is quite harsh IMO. I realise he's burnt many bridges but I suppose the only acid test as you say would be him not only putting in money to ensure we got out of trouble, but to continue the spending to push us further.

 

What concerns me should that happen is the Kinnear situation. He's done a decent job in steadying the ship but fuck me, I wouldn't want him in charge of £20m spending sprees.

 

this is why its all bullshit, not a fucking chance ashley spends 20m, even less him letting joe kinnear spend it

[Dave]

What would Ashley have to do to convince you he's right for Newcastle United, NE5?

 

I mean to put this debacle completely to bed, for you - assuming any sale is off.

 

Is it purely and simply about spending money? So if the club spent £20m net this window you'd be convinced and happy?

 

Genuine questions btw, please don't bring up the usual stuff about the old lot.

 

Personally, I'd be appeased, but no more.

 

If he spends money now I will think he's doing it because he feels he has to (to keep his investment in the PL) not because he wants to (to improve the team as much as he can year on year).

 

It would take years of him regularly putting every penny of the club's self generated revenue back into the club as a minimum before I would believe in Ashley now (and that doesn't include paying off the debts to himself).

 

Fair enough, though the bit about needing/wanting to put the money in is quite harsh IMO. I realise he's burnt many bridges but I suppose the only acid test as you say would be him not only putting in money to ensure we got out of trouble, but to continue the spending to push us further.

 

What concerns me should that happen is the Kinnear situation. He's done a decent job in steadying the ship but fuck me, I wouldn't want him in charge of £20m spending sprees.

 

this is why its all bullshit, not a fucking chance ashley spends 20m, even less him letting joe kinnear spend it

 

Agreed.

[oldtype]

TBH I can't imagine how we could actually have literally "no money to spend."

 

I can understand Ashley not wanting to invest any more of his own personal funds into the club.

 

But if I remember correctly last summer was a net plus for us, and doesn't the club generate SOME sort of revenue?

 

Fair enough it's Ashley's club and he can insist on pocketing all of that instead of spending it on transfers, but you'd think it'd make common sense to at least release the funds that the club is generating considering that we're in the thick of a relegation fight.

[NG32]

20 million only gets you a Kenwyn Jones these days.

 

 

[Guest firetotheworks]

It might not be a popular choice but I think at this stage if he stood by his convictions and continued with the system he used for signing players in the summer it would make sense. First of all Id be impressed by his balls to do so considering whats happened, and Id also think he knows whats best for the club IE not letting Kinnear dictate who comes and goes. The idea of Kinnear selling our players when he's not our proper manager fills me with utter dread.

 

Of course its a double edged sword in that if we were to get a decent manager under Ashley again, then he'd probably still continue with his transfer policy. And so the cycle begins again, unless they're happy to work under that system.

 

I was happy with the way we progressing prior to Keegan leaving. I'd like him to stay if we were to get a good manager who would be willing to work within that system, but I think that that situation is now pure fantasy after whats happened, and naive to believe that a good manager would a)come into this mess or b) work within that system.

 

Its probably best he does sell, but time will tell I suppose.

[UV]

Like johnnypd I think Ashley brought in the system to keep a lid on expenses and to bring in players who would increase in value and be sold on at a profit. A massive difference from the idea of buying in the best young talent to build a long term successful team. I know most were overjoyed at the sale of Milner for so much, but the unwillingness we had to negotiate his contract, and his subsequent sale don't signal the intention that we are going to try too hard to hang on to the young players we bring in who do turn out to be any good.

 

I don't see how either you or Johnny can say what he was planning to do, the idea behind bringing in younger players is that it does cut down on expenses in that you have them develop at your club rather than have them develop somewhere else, our biggest problem in the Summer was that we didn't buy enough of them but who's fault that was I don't know.

 

As for Milner, Are you for real? He was fucking shite, man. Even the Villa fans think so yet we should have tried to keep even though we sold him for double what he was worth?! Madness.

 

When all other things are equal (existing contract duration, current ability, etc) a young player will cost more than an older player. You pay a premium for potential. As a way of putting together a team that can compete NOW it would be a more expensive route to go, not a cost saving exercise.

 

If the young players you're bringing in are cheap, they're usually cheap for a reason, and the chances are they have a long way to go to before they are ready to be first choice selections. Of course you can get lucky and find a player like Bassong, or to a lesser extent Guthrie, but more often than not these youngster's who all clubs are on the lookout for will take years to develop, and in in most cases wont in fact reach their potential. Also, the system didn't find these players, the people within the system found them. The ones which were brought in, Keegan was obviously happy with. Who knows how successful the ones Keegan tuned down would have been, maybe Keegan was the one who could filter out the good ones. There's more chance that he knows how to spot a player than Wise, simply through having more experience at it.

 

 

As for Milner, he's 22 & at least 2 clubs were in for him. It wasn't a one-time not to be missed sale, yet we were so desperate to offload him and get the cash before Mike tried to sell up, we rushed it thorough so he could play for Villa at the weekend while we were short on numbers in midfield. When you consider the low wages he'll be on & the years of professional, fairly consistent, low injury rate, uncomplaining service he'll give Villa, I think he'll easily be worth his transfer fee in value in the long run. I bet he'll create and score more goals than Jonas this season for a start [puts tin hat on].