The Wise/Jimenez/Vetere AND KEVIN KEEGAN appreciation thread

[themanupstairs]

 

There isn't half some bollocks being spouted in this thread.

 

Whoever was behind our summer recruitment has done a very good job, as we have assembled a quality (albeit short on numbers) squad of players. We need 2 or 3 additions of similar ilk, and we'll do very well imo should we bring in a quality manager and hold on to Owen.

[NG32]

 

There isn't half some bollocks being spouted in this thread.

 

Whoever was behind our summer recruitment has done a very good job, as we have assembled a quality (albeit short on numbers) squad of players. We need 2 or 3 additions of similar ilk, and we'll do very well imo should we bring in a quality manager and hold on to Owen.

 

 

The players we have brought in have looked half decent BUT they failed to bring enough in.  Despite having months to sort players out.

[Guest The Libertine]

Said from day one Wise is not to blame.

 

So that's obviously why Keegan by the end couldn't stand his guts?

 

the same keegan who was hated by wise and llambias?

 

weird, eh?

[Thespence]

While Keegan wasn't a bad judge of a player, unearthing and buying relatively unknown players for small fees wasn't really his way of doing things otherwise he'd be the most sought after manager in the world.

 

When someone signs a better £ for £ signing at Newcastle than Rob Lee it will be good day. Or we sign striker from the lower leagues as good as Andy Cole, I will be very impressed.

 

Who are these relatively unknown players we signed for the first team? Because everyone of them played in one Europe's major leagues the previous season & I think all of them have some type of international caps.

 

I'm sure you must have recommended us targetting Jonas and Bassong as great potential signings then. Fair play to you, I had f*** all knowlegde of them in truth.

 

Tbf I would rather we had signed another Argentinean from Real Mallorca (Ibagaza) instead of Jonas.

 

Did you recommend him before we signed Jonas or is this our chief scout Mr Hindsight talking?

 

Recommend him to who? To myself?

 

Real Mallorca are in the shite £££'s wise so it was obvious there best players were going to go: Guiza (La Liga top goalscorer last season & Spanish international), Ibagaza (most assists in La Liga last year & a Argie international) & Jonas (out of contract Argie  international). Even West Brom went raided the fuckers & took Valero off them.

 

Any club that is known to be in shite with banks is going to have it roster looked at & raided that seems obvious to me.

 

 

[Thespence]

While Keegan wasn't a bad judge of a player, unearthing and buying relatively unknown players for small fees wasn't really his way of doing things otherwise he'd be the most sought after manager in the world.

 

When someone signs a better £ for £ signing at Newcastle than Rob Lee it will be good day. Or we sign striker from the lower leagues as good as Andy Cole, I will be very impressed.

 

Who are these relatively unknown players we signed for the first team? Because everyone of them played in one Europe's major leagues the previous season & I think all of them have some type of international caps.

 

That was a fair old while ago now. How well do you feel he did in terms overall signings at his more recent clubs like Man City?

 

He signed a lot of older players at city which helped them stop pinging up down as they have not be relegated since KK took them up iirc, which is big thing especially for Man City. Did he sign Benarbia? As I always enjoyed watching him play football.

 

I agree, but will go into more detail below.

 

While Keegan wasn't a bad judge of a player, unearthing and buying relatively unknown players for small fees wasn't really his way of doing things otherwise he'd be the most sought after manager in the world.

 

When someone signs a better £ for £ signing at Newcastle than Rob Lee it will be good day. Or we sign striker from the lower leagues as good as Andy Cole, I will be very impressed.

 

Who are these relatively unknown players we signed for the first team? Because everyone of them played in one Europe's major leagues the previous season & I think all of them have some type of international caps.

 

That was a fair old while ago now. How well do you feel he did in terms overall signings at his more recent clubs like Man City?

 

Keegan brought in a lot of good foreign players at city, but i think his problem with the failures was being TOO adventurous in his transfers, the opposite of what some are suggesting.

 

of his better signings - Anelka, Distin, Bernabia, Berkovic, Tarnat, Van Buyten, Foe.

 

Anelka was an obvious signing, certainly not uncovering a gem, though I grant he was one of the few he ever made a profit on.

Van Buyten was only on loan, as was Foe I think.

Distin was a good buy I'll grant you, though you would hope so as a record signing as a defender (just like Colo) and he left on a free (not Keegans fault though).

Berkovic, yes a good player, but he had already been through 4 british club on big transfers so hardly a massive spot. Besides he only lasted a year or so after er... falling out with Keegan, and left on a free.

Tarnat lasted what, a season as well? Same with Bernabia who was 32 when he arrived.

 

So I wouldn't class any of those as showing the ability to spot a bargain or as we were discussing, showing an ability to sign talented youngsters.

 

When KK took over getting & then keeping Man City in PL is the main thing, as in recent times they have slumped as far down as the old 2nd division. You don't need to sign many youngsters when you have Jim Cassell running your Academy, I am sure the KK teams had a number of homegrown players in the side like Barton, Flood, SWP etc. It is like saying when KK tookover NUFC (1st time) from Ozzie he did not sign a lot of youngsters he didn't need to as we already had as stack of home grown good players coming through or playing 1st team football.

 

[Thespence]

While Keegan wasn't a bad judge of a player, unearthing and buying relatively unknown players for small fees wasn't really his way of doing things otherwise he'd be the most sought after manager in the world.

 

When someone signs a better £ for £ signing at Newcastle than Rob Lee it will be good day. Or we sign striker from the lower leagues as good as Andy Cole, I will be very impressed.

 

Who are these relatively unknown players we signed for the first team? Because everyone of them played in one Europe's major leagues the previous season & I think all of them have some type of international caps.

 

I'm sure you must have recommended us targetting Jonas and Bassong as great potential signings then. Fair play to you, I had f*** all knowlegde of them in truth.

 

Tbf I would rather we had signed another Argentinean from Real Mallorca (Ibagaza) instead of Jonas.

 

Good luck he's at Villarreal.

 

NO FUCKING SHIT!!! Well spotted

 

Oh I feel silly now.....

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I knew this thread was a risky idea!

[Thespence]

I knew this thread was a risky idea!

 

Aye, people thinking the mastermind behind signing Huntingdon for Leeds is now Pini Zahavi.

 

 

[NJS]

Of course this is brilliant new concept - we have never ever signed any good foreigners before the holy trinity came. I imagined Ginola, Solano, Albert, Robert and Beye - hat's off to Ashley for coming up with fantastic new idea.

 

 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Of course this is brilliant new concept - we have never ever signed any good foreigners before the holy trinity came. I imagined Ginola, Solano, Albert, Robert and Beye - hat's off to Ashley for coming up with fantastic new idea.

 

So because someone has done a good job in the past no modern regime can get any credit?

[steve_69]

Of course this is brilliant new concept - we have never ever signed any good foreigners before the holy trinity came. I imagined Ginola, Solano, Albert, Robert and Beye - hat's off to Ashley for coming up with fantastic new idea.

 

 

 

Beye was signed by Ashley.....actually he was signed by Fat Sam but it was during Ashley's reign

[relámpago blanco]

Of course this is brilliant new concept - we have never ever signed any good foreigners before the holy trinity came. I imagined Ginola, Solano, Albert, Robert and Beye - hat's off to Ashley for coming up with fantastic new idea.

 

 

 

Ooh, an entire 5 in  13 years?  There have been other good foreigners come in during that time anyway, but still ashley's regime brought in 3 alone this summer that have been outstanding.

[Tooj]

Of course this is brilliant new concept - we have never ever signed any good foreigners before the holy trinity came. I imagined Ginola, Solano, Albert, Robert and Beye - hat's off to Ashley for coming up with fantastic new idea.

 

 

 

Beye was signed by Ashley.....actually he was signed by Fat Sam but it was during Ashley's reign

 

But neither Wise, Jiminez and Vetere were employed by the club at the time, and knowing how the system employed under these they wouldn't have let Big Sam sign Beye.

[madras]

Of course this is brilliant new concept - we have never ever signed any good foreigners before the holy trinity came. I imagined Ginola, Solano, Albert, Robert and Beye - hat's off to Ashley for coming up with fantastic new idea.

 

 

 

Beye was signed by Ashley.....actually he was signed by Fat Sam but it was during Ashley's reign

 

But neither Wise, Jiminez and Vetere were employed by the club at the time, and knowing how the system employed under these they wouldn't have let Big Sam sign Beye.

nor barton or smith hopefully.

[Tooj]

Can I ask people btw what qualifies Dennis Wise to be in such an important role as a DOF? As going from his previous experience I can't see anything there that shows he has a good eye for youngsters all across the continent, or anything else to suggest he would make a good DOF.

[relámpago blanco]

Can I ask people btw what qualifies Dennis Wise to be in such an important role as a DOF? As going from his previous experience I can't see anything there that shows he has a good eye for youngsters all across the continent.

HE signed Paul Huntingdon from us, what more do you need to know?

 

[Guest Howaythetoon]

The proof of the pudding is a good team.

 

FAIL

 

Where do you think we would have finished this season if Keegan had stayed?

 

If they supported KK 100% in a reasonable fashion and got him the players he wanted in the positions he wanted, a lot higher than our aims will be this season, top 8 perhaps, maybe top 6

[Lotus]

The proof of the pudding is a good team.

 

FAIL

 

Where do you think we would have finished this season if Keegan had stayed?

 

If they supported KK 100% in a reasonable fashion and got him the players he wanted in the positions he wanted, a lot higher than our aims will be this season, top 8 perhaps, maybe top 6

 

We're only a couple of points off that now.

 

[BottledDog]

While Keegan wasn't a bad judge of a player, unearthing and buying relatively unknown players for small fees wasn't really his way of doing things otherwise he'd be the most sought after manager in the world.

 

When someone signs a better £ for £ signing at Newcastle than Rob Lee it will be good day. Or we sign striker from the lower leagues as good as Andy Cole, I will be very impressed.

 

Who are these relatively unknown players we signed for the first team? Because everyone of them played in one Europe's major leagues the previous season & I think all of them have some type of international caps.

 

That was a fair old while ago now. How well do you feel he did in terms overall signings at his more recent clubs like Man City?

 

He signed a lot of older players at city which helped them stop pinging up down as they have not be relegated since KK took them up iirc, which is big thing especially for Man City. Did he sign Benarbia? As I always enjoyed watching him play football.

 

I agree, but will go into more detail below.

 

While Keegan wasn't a bad judge of a player, unearthing and buying relatively unknown players for small fees wasn't really his way of doing things otherwise he'd be the most sought after manager in the world.

 

When someone signs a better £ for £ signing at Newcastle than Rob Lee it will be good day. Or we sign striker from the lower leagues as good as Andy Cole, I will be very impressed.

 

Who are these relatively unknown players we signed for the first team? Because everyone of them played in one Europe's major leagues the previous season & I think all of them have some type of international caps.

 

That was a fair old while ago now. How well do you feel he did in terms overall signings at his more recent clubs like Man City?

 

Keegan brought in a lot of good foreign players at city, but i think his problem with the failures was being TOO adventurous in his transfers, the opposite of what some are suggesting.

 

of his better signings - Anelka, Distin, Bernabia, Berkovic, Tarnat, Van Buyten, Foe.

 

Anelka was an obvious signing, certainly not uncovering a gem, though I grant he was one of the few he ever made a profit on.

Van Buyten was only on loan, as was Foe I think.

Distin was a good buy I'll grant you, though you would hope so as a record signing as a defender (just like Colo) and he left on a free (not Keegans fault though).

Berkovic, yes a good player, but he had already been through 4 british club on big transfers so hardly a massive spot. Besides he only lasted a year or so after er... falling out with Keegan, and left on a free.

Tarnat lasted what, a season as well? Same with Bernabia who was 32 when he arrived.

 

So I wouldn't class any of those as showing the ability to spot a bargain or as we were discussing, showing an ability to sign talented youngsters.

 

When KK took over getting & then keeping Man City in PL is the main thing, as in recent times they have slumped as far down as the old 2nd division. You don't need to sign many youngsters when you have Jim Cassell running your Academy, I am sure the KK teams had a number of homegrown players in the side like Barton, Flood, SWP etc. It is like saying when KK tookover NUFC (1st time) from Ozzie he did not sign a lot of youngsters he didn't need to as we already had as stack of home grown good players coming through or playing 1st team football.

 

 

Agreed, he got them back up and kept them up, but that does not take away from the fact that the majority of his signings, and especially the younger ones brought in as the next big things were misses, or abject disasters, and as a consequence they were not continuing to move forward. That was my point which I had further down in my post, and why I was happy with the setup showing a certain amount of quality control when spending our money.

 

If as HTT said, it doesn't matter, Keegan is purely a motivator and not interested in the other facets of the job (pretty astounding thing for him to say considering his pro Keegan stance, but would point towards why Keegan was never a world class manager), then that adds even more weight to the arguement for having those safeguards put in place.

 

It didn't work out (whether that was down to Keegans unwillingness to relinquish a degree of control, or quite possibly just a complete breakdown in trust from both sides), but that does not take away from what this thread is all about. That the Wise/Jimenez/Vetere/Keegan system as a whole did a good job in not wasting money while bringing in talented players with good characters who have improved the sqaud. And for me, whoever the manager, its a shame that it has seemingly now been scrapped.

[Guest Heneage]

Said from day one Wise is not to blame.

 

So that's obviously why Keegan by the end couldn't stand his guts?

So? Just because Keegan doesn't like him equates to what? He was ruining the club, the fact the fella walked out showed we are not first in his mind. I fail to see what Wise has done bar stop us getting over-rated trophy signings and securing some good young talent.

[themanupstairs]

Said from day one Wise is not to blame.

 

So that's obviously why Keegan by the end couldn't stand his guts?

So? Just because Keegan doesn't like him equates to what? He was ruining the club, the fact the fella walked out showed we are not first in his mind. I fail to see what Wise has done bar stop us getting over-rated trophy signings and securing some good young talent.

 

Don't talk sense mate! If you don't dream of sucking on Keegan's nads every night in your sleep then you need your head checked

[TRon]

Said from day one Wise is not to blame.

 

So that's obviously why Keegan by the end couldn't stand his guts?

So? Just because Keegan doesn't like him equates to what? He was ruining the club, the fact the fella walked out showed we are not first in his mind. I fail to see what Wise has done bar stop us getting over-rated trophy signings and securing some good young talent.

 

Well yes...that's the point, it's quite good that he's done those things

 

 

[Robster]

Said from day one Wise is not to blame.

 

So that's obviously why Keegan by the end couldn't stand his guts?

So? Just because Keegan doesn't like him equates to what? He was ruining the club, the fact the fella walked out showed we are not first in his mind. I fail to see what Wise has done bar stop us getting over-rated trophy signings and securing some good young talent.

Not someone else who believed Keegan was really chasing Frank Lampard et al

[Tooj]

Said from day one Wise is not to blame.

 

So that's obviously why Keegan by the end couldn't stand his guts?

So? Just because Keegan doesn't like him equates to what? He was ruining the club, the fact the fella walked out showed we are not first in his mind. I fail to see what Wise has done bar stop us getting over-rated trophy signings and securing some good young talent.

 

Don't talk sense mate! If you don't dream of sucking on Keegan's nads every night in your sleep then you need your head checked

 

Very mature response.

 

If the manager couldn't stand Wise then I can't see how this abstains him from not taking any blame.

[Tooj]

Said from day one Wise is not to blame.

 

So that's obviously why Keegan by the end couldn't stand his guts?

So? Just because Keegan doesn't like him equates to what? He was ruining the club, the fact the fella walked out showed we are not first in his mind. I fail to see what Wise has done bar stop us getting over-rated trophy signings and securing some good young talent.

 

"I'm here to help Kevin, bringing young players through and also recommend certain players to him. He'll say yes and no, he has the final word, no-one else. Everything that happens will be run past him. I'm not going to bring players in behind his back - I'm not into that."

Dennis Wise, via BBC Sport website - February 1, 2008

 

If the rumours are true of course.