Why is losing like this acceptable?

[Guest neesy111]

people accept it because they know we're not good enough and won't be for a very long time

 

it doesn't help when you have a team that doesn't give a fuck

 

apathy has set in big time now

 

i'm finished with spending money at the club etc

[Mowen]

I agree that we should always aim as high as possible.

 

I guess my point is really that being a 'top 6 club' is a meaningless thing imo. The league is a fluid thing that will inevitably go in cycles with different clubs feeling they're not doing or chasing what they should at certain times. Luck plays a huge part in the short term.

 

I don't think anyone 'deserves' anything in football.

 

I agree, but we need to adopt a mentality that we are a top 6 club and anything outside of that is not and never will be acceptable in the same way that finishing second isn't acceptable to Man Utd. I think that isn't too much to ask for.

 

I'm not sure I agree. I might demand we stay in the top flight, but other than that I just follow the team and am grateful for anything I can enjoy. It could be a lot worse, look at Leeds.

[NJS]

I agree that we should always aim as high as possible.

 

I guess my point is really that being a 'top 6 club' is a meaningless thing imo. The league is a fluid thing that will inevitably go in cycles with different clubs feeling they're not doing or chasing what they should at certain times. Luck plays a huge part in the short term.

 

I don't think anyone 'deserves' anything in football.

 

I agree, but we need to adopt a mentality that we are a top 6 club and anything outside of that is not and never will be acceptable in the same way that finishing second isn't acceptable to Man Utd. I think that isn't too much to ask for.

 

I'm not sure I agree. I might demand we stay in the top flight, but other than that I just follow the team and am grateful for anything I can enjoy. It could be a lot worse, look at Leeds.

 

That's what worries me - people using Leeds as an excuse to never give it a go - why don't you mention Chelsea or Villa who've had a go and seen it pay off to varying extents?

 

I've seen us play at the wrong end of the second division and I'd take that and worse if you could tell me we'd at least have a go anytime soon rather than being happy being comatose in the premiership and bending over for other clubs.

 

 

[Mowen]

I'm not saying don't give it a go. If you remember we did under SBR and it was fucking brilliant. That doesn't mean I expect it to always be like that. Being mediocre in the premiership is far from ideal, but I had a magic day out at Portsmouth, Spurs was amazing - it's not all doom and bloody gloom. There will be a point in the next few years when we're a team in the ascendency again imo.

[Baggio]

I agree that we should always aim as high as possible.

 

I guess my point is really that being a 'top 6 club' is a meaningless thing imo. The league is a fluid thing that will inevitably go in cycles with different clubs feeling they're not doing or chasing what they should at certain times. Luck plays a huge part in the short term.

 

I don't think anyone 'deserves' anything in football.

 

I agree, but we need to adopt a mentality that we are a top 6 club and anything outside of that is not and never will be acceptable in the same way that finishing second isn't acceptable to Man Utd. I think that isn't too much to ask for.

 

I'm not sure I agree. I might demand we stay in the top flight, but other than that I just follow the team and am grateful for anything I can enjoy. It could be a lot worse, look at Leeds.

 

That's what worries me - people using Leeds as an excuse to never give it a go - why don't you mention Chelsea or Villa who've had a go and seen it pay off to varying extents?

 

I've seen us play at the wrong end of the second division and I'd take that and worse if you could tell me we'd at least have a go anytime soon rather than being happy being comatose in the premiership and bending over for other clubs.

 

 

 

But you thought we would be 6th if Keegan stayed.

 

 

[Parsley]

I'm not saying don't give it a go. If you remember we did under SBR and it was f***ing brilliant. That doesn't mean I expect it to always be like that. Being mediocre in the premiership is far from ideal, but I had a magic day out at Portsmouth, Spurs was amazing - it's not all doom and bloody gloom. There will be a point in the next few years when we're a team in the ascendency again imo.

Good post, couldn't agree more.

[pedro111]

I agree with HTT here.

 

Big club? call it what you like, one things for sure, we are a club of stature. That cannot be denied by anybody. The ONLY thing missing to be truely regarded as an elite club is the lack of a winning mentality engrained within the corridors and foundations of the club which enables teams to be assembled who succeed on a regular basis.

 

For me there are only 3 clubs in this league who I see as 'bigger' than us.  That is why results like this should be unacceptable.

 

 

[NJS]

But you thought we would be 6th if Keegan stayed.

 

You won't let that lie will you

 

I said we'd be 5th or 6th now - I still think we wouldn't have finished there given the lack of depth.

 

I also said that modest year on year improvement would only ever see us at the periphery of where I think we could be if Ashley had followed Lerner's model.

 

 

[NJS]

There will be a point in the next few years when we're a team in the ascendency again imo.

 

Not with Kinnear in charge - imo.

 

 

[Baggio]

But you thought we would be 6th if Keegan stayed.

 

You won't let that lie will you

 

I said we'd be 5th or 6th now - I still think we wouldn't have finished there given the lack of depth.

 

I also said that modest year on year improvement would only ever see us at the periphery of where I think we could be if Ashley had followed Lerner's model.

 

 

 

How much did Villa spend last season for them to jump from a bottom half team up to 6th?

[Mowen]

There will be a point in the next few years when we're a team in the ascendency again imo.

 

Not with Kinnear in charge - imo.

 

I agree. He won't be here past this season though imo. Be positive!

[Dave]

There will be a point in the next few years when we're a team in the ascendency again imo.

 

Not with Kinnear in charge - imo.

 

I agree. He won't be here past this season though imo. Be positive!

 

Considering the lovefest between Kinnear and Ashley in the press I'm not so sure he'll go.

[Mowen]

There will be a point in the next few years when we're a team in the ascendency again imo.

 

Not with Kinnear in charge - imo.

 

I agree. He won't be here past this season though imo. Be positive!

 

Considering the lovefest between Kinnear and Ashley in the press I'm not so sure he'll go.

 

What can I say, I'm an optimist. He'll go!

[NJS]

But you thought we would be 6th if Keegan stayed.

 

You won't let that lie will you

 

I said we'd be 5th or 6th now - I still think we wouldn't have finished there given the lack of depth.

 

I also said that modest year on year improvement would only ever see us at the periphery of where I think we could be if Ashley had followed Lerner's model.

 

 

 

How much did Villa spend last season for them to jump from a bottom half team up to 6th?

 

I don't know the whens and the whos but I read Lerner had spent £70m since taking over.

 

As I've said before I support Ashley's "responsible" plan but only if there'd been an initial splurge to kick it off.

 

 

[Neil]

I agree with HTT here.

 

Big club? call it what you like, one things for sure, we are a club of stature. That cannot be denied by anybody. The ONLY thing missing to be truely regarded as an elite club is the lack of a winning mentality engrained within the corridors and foundations of the club which enables teams to be assembled who succeed on a regular basis.

 

For me there are only 3 clubs in this league who I see as 'bigger' than us.  That is why results like this should be unacceptable.

 

 

 

Who are they?

[thewellander]

I'll admit that I didn't read the rest of the thread, so I apologize if I'm repeating what someone else said earlier.

 

I'm not happy about this result, but I keep in mind that we didn't have Martins, Barton, Bassong, or Beye. Those four players are arguably the most important players for us to have on the pitch based on this season's performances.

 

[Dokko]

Who's fuking team is it anyway? 

 

And therein lies the problem, we've had more managers than Kerry Katona's had prawn rings and more footballers through our doors than Daniel Lloyd's bedroom.

 

Good point. We should be sticking with Kinnear through thick and thin then?

 

I think Kinnear for the last 4 seasons would have been better than Souness/Roeder/Allardyce/Keegan/Kinnear.

 

Probably right.

 

Unfortunately i really reckon so.

 

TT, you're right. The past few years haven't been Keegan managing Keegan's team, and Allardyce managing Allardyce's team.

 

There hasn't been a manager since Bobby who has been able to build their squad and team. They've all come and go so quickly. Kinnear isn't managing his team, he's managing a combination of Roeder's, Allardyce's, Keegan's etc. He wouldn't pick these players. Just look at today's lineup:

 

Given - Dalglish

 

Edgar - Bobby

Taylor - Bobby

Colocinni - Keegan

Enrique - Allardyce

 

Jonas - Keegan

Butt - Bobby

Guthrie - Keegan

N'Zogbia - Bobby

 

Owen - Souness

Duff - Roeder

 

Ridiculous that really.

 

Hammers home the real mess everyone with any power at the club has made over the past few seasons, undoing everything SBR worked so hard to build.

 

We are the biggest joke in the Premiership, without a doubt.

[pedro111]

I agree with HTT here.

 

Big club? call it what you like, one things for sure, we are a club of stature. That cannot be denied by anybody. The ONLY thing missing to be truely regarded as an elite club is the lack of a winning mentality engrained within the corridors and foundations of the club which enables teams to be assembled who succeed on a regular basis.

 

For me there are only 3 clubs in this league who I see as 'bigger' than us.  That is why results like this should be unacceptable.

 

 

Who are they?

 

Man U, Liverpool, Arsenal.

 

Sure, others may have won more than us (yes your club I know) but thats the way I see it.  Im sorry if you dissagree.

 

 

[Guest Howaythetoon]

I agree with HTT here.

 

Big club? call it what you like, one things for sure, we are a club of stature. That cannot be denied by anybody. The ONLY thing missing to be truely regarded as an elite club is the lack of a winning mentality engrained within the corridors and foundations of the club which enables teams to be assembled who succeed on a regular basis.

 

For me there are only 3 clubs in this league who I see as 'bigger' than us.  That is why results like this should be unacceptable.

 

 

Who are they?

 

Man U, Liverpool, Arsenal.

 

Sure, others may have won more than us (yes your club I know) but thats the way I see it.  Im sorry if you dissagree.

 

 

 

I see it the same, potentially anyway.

[Neil]

Don't be sorry, it's the whole point of a forum imo.

 

How would you define 'stature'? Does 'stature' = 'big club'?

[Wullie]

It isn't.

[Mowen]

Don't be sorry, it's the whole point of a forum imo.

 

How would you define 'stature'? Does 'stature' = 'big club'?

 

Marge, I don't apologise. I'm sorry, it's just the way I am.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

Don't be sorry, it's the whole point of a forum imo.

 

How would you define 'stature'? Does 'stature' = 'big club'?

 

Size of stadium, fanbase, history, turnover etc.

 

NUFC despite what some of our own fans would rubbish is a big club, one of the biggest in the country although not an elite club which I regard Man Utd, Liverpool and Arsenal as. I'd say Everton are a big club too along with Villa, Spurs and Chelsea. Clubs of stature.

[Neil]

Don't be sorry, it's the whole point of a forum imo.

 

How would you define 'stature'? Does 'stature' = 'big club'?

 

Size of stadium, fanbase, history, turnover etc.

 

NUFC despite what some of our own fans would rubbish is a big club, one of the biggest in the country although not an elite club which I regard Man Utd, Liverpool and Arsenal as. I'd say Everton are a big club too along with Villa, Spurs and Chelsea. Clubs of stature.

 

I don't disagree that Newcastle is still a big club. You only have to see the lengths the national media go to, to report every little event at the club in bizarrely extensive detail.

 

In terms of fanbase, I don't think it's as easy as saying "you have more fans". The geography of the area has to be taken into account, i.e. the fact you're the only club in a huge city.

 

I'm also a bit sceptical about the 'history' factor, because most clubs will say they have 'history', and ultimately what will determine the strength of this factor in making an overall decision will be the nature of that history, i.e. impact, success.

 

I do agree with the turnover bit though. No, it doesn't accurately measure the financial state of the club but it still is a good indicator of the level of 'stature' it has in the football industry, albeit not the only one.

 

 

[bobbydazzla]

I agree with HTT here.

 

Big club? call it what you like, one things for sure, we are a club of stature. That cannot be denied by anybody. The ONLY thing missing to be truely regarded as an elite club is the lack of a winning mentality engrained within the corridors and foundations of the club which enables teams to be assembled who succeed on a regular basis.

 

For me there are only 3 clubs in this league who I see as 'bigger' than us.  That is why results like this should be unacceptable.

 

 

Who are they?

 

Man U, Liverpool, Arsenal.

 

Sure, others may have won more than us (yes your club I know) but thats the way I see it.  Im sorry if you dissagree.

 

 

 

Spurs, Villa, Everton, Man City, Chelsea all clubs that are currently much "bigger" than us. They have had more recent success or stability and attract better players.

 

We think because we have played Champions League for a few seasons and finished 2nd in the league and cup in the 90's we are "big". Which is shite as far as I'm concerned.

 

Take away the stadium and away following and what do we have to offer apart from cringeworthy tabloid headlines. No wonder other fans think we are deluded clowns.