fredbob Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Protest won't force Ashley take a loss sale. Relegation can. Am i reading this right? You want to risk the future of the club just to force out the man who could change it all, even though he;s given us the best first team in 5 years? Yet we're in our worst position as a club since gaining promotion in 1993. So its isnt the best first team we've had in 5 years? Is that what you're saying? No because it's not better than the team we had in 2004. Id say it was mighty close, closer than it has been for 4 years at least. Point pretty much stands still. How does your point still stand when it isn't even the best for 5 years? Best in 4 years then? January 05, the window we signed Boumsong and Babayaro. Id still argue that this first team would give the SBR 04 team a run for its money. My opinion anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebellious Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Right I'll do my best to address Lien and HTT's posts together. I understand the fans anger I really do. I'm not exactly tickety-boo myself and I imagine paying to watch today must have increased that anger ten-fold. But on the other hand you've paid the money, you know the crack, youre not going to get a quality performance from this bunch. We're currently on a poor run of form with an injury hit squad, yes I expect professionalism and effort from the players but it was clear today we just weren't going to get it and that's not good enough, especially if we went behind. So as a fan sitting in the away end what do you do? Do you think to your self: "I know what will get the lads going, a good old chant about Dennis Wise" or do you turn the noise up a couple of notches and let the lads know we're still behind them. I completely understand why the former option was taken under the circumstances but do I agree with it? No, because it wasn't productive in the slightest. Then that begs the question what can we as the fans do to let our hurt be known without upsetting the apple cart? Well that is an incredibly difficult question. Do we sit tight lipped and hope we see out the season or do we go in all guns blazing demanding an upheaval and change. Well I think most fans want the latter, but there is very little we can do without doing more damage than good and that's what's so frustrating. Any kind of change at this club is going to bring negatives at this time of the season. We all know Ashley is too thick skinned to change his approach, he's shown us that already, he has his methods and whether they're right or wrong it looks like he's sticking to them. Chanting at Ashley and the so Called "cockney mafia" isn't going to get us anywhere. So what about Kinnear, hypothetically so we kick up a fuss and get him binned then what? Who would realistically want this job that is an improvement on Kinnear given the current circumstances? An owner who's got "looking to sell up when the price is right" written all over him, supposed limited control of transfers, a team that throws in the towel when things aren't going their way and a restless fan base. It really isn't that attractive. It's also worth noting we're in the middle of a transfer market which will have shut before the new man can take control. So change isn't going to be easy it takes time for the dust to settle time we don't have. The fact is with returning players we still have a squad that is more than capable of finishing mid-table this season. The problem for me now is that since that Liverpool rape the players confidence is shot they just don't look up for it. So how can we, the fans help that? Like HTT we do have the support but we don't have the positive support. It's difficult in these dark times to motivate the fans, we need noise we need positive, productive chants that makes those players believe they can win any game. We need to stop jumping on their backs and riling them up them so they have the motivation even if they themselves or their manager can't produce it. The damage is done, we've dug our hole and we need to climb out of it. All the negative chanting in the world might make the fans feel better, but it isn't going to change a thing apart from how deep that hole gets. Yes I'm hurting, and I want change, our club is a joke and it isn't good enough. But before we go demanding change at this very moment in time I think it's worth engaging our brains instead of our knees and we at least consider the short term consequences it will have on the team and our position in the league. Good Post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prophet Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Protest won't force Ashley take a loss sale. Relegation can. Am i reading this right? You want to risk the future of the club just to force out the man who could change it all, even though he;s given us the best first team in 5 years? Yet we're in our worst position as a club since gaining promotion in 1993. So its isnt the best first team we've had in 5 years? Is that what you're saying? No because it's not better than the team we had in 2004. Id say it was mighty close, closer than it has been for 4 years at least. Point pretty much stands still. How does your point still stand when it isn't even the best for 5 years? Best in 4 years then? January 05, the window we signed Boumsong and Babayaro. Id still argue that this first team would give the SBR 04 team a run for its money. My opinion anyway. With the right man in charge, definitely. The problem is since the Bobby Robson era the rest of the league has improved and progressed while our continuous conveyer-belt of managers have continued to tare apart the spine of the squad and attempted to build from scratch resulting in little if not no progress. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Protest won't force Ashley take a loss sale. Relegation can. Am i reading this right? You want to risk the future of the club just to force out the man who could change it all, even though he;s given us the best first team in 5 years? Yet we're in our worst position as a club since gaining promotion in 1993. So its isnt the best first team we've had in 5 years? Is that what you're saying? No because it's not better than the team we had in 2004. Id say it was mighty close, closer than it has been for 4 years at least. Point pretty much stands still. How does your point still stand when it isn't even the best for 5 years? Best in 4 years then? January 05, the window we signed Boumsong and Babayaro. Id still argue that this first team would give the SBR 04 team a run for its money. My opinion anyway. Gerraway man you can't change your argument like that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredbob Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Protest won't force Ashley take a loss sale. Relegation can. Am i reading this right? You want to risk the future of the club just to force out the man who could change it all, even though he;s given us the best first team in 5 years? Yet we're in our worst position as a club since gaining promotion in 1993. So its isnt the best first team we've had in 5 years? Is that what you're saying? No because it's not better than the team we had in 2004. Id say it was mighty close, closer than it has been for 4 years at least. Point pretty much stands still. How does your point still stand when it isn't even the best for 5 years? Best in 4 years then? January 05, the window we signed Boumsong and Babayaro. Id still argue that this first team would give the SBR 04 team a run for its money. My opinion anyway. With the right man in charge, definitely. The problem is since the Bobby Robson era the rest of the league has improved and progressed while our continuous conveyer-belt of managers have continued to tare apart the spine of the squad and attempted to build from scratch resulting in little if not no progress. Absolutely, dont disagree with you for one second, thats why i think we're so close, just the right manin charge and we're set to go. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoreboard82 Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Protesting caused part of this s****. Surely protests were a reaction to the problems at SJP and not the cause of them. Further protests won't do any good unfortunately, but fans can't be expected to say nothing as the club falls apart. Anger and frustration will be shown in some shape or form. As someone pointed out, act poorly in this transfer window, then, heaven forbid, lose to the Mackems, and i don't think everyone will go home quietly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robster Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Absolutely, dont disagree with you for one second, thats why i think we're so close, just the right manin charge and we're set to go. That was basically the case the second Keegan left the club. I just dont think Ashley is interested Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtype Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 I actually agree with HTT. I'm probably the only Toon fan in a 100 mile radius. I'll never understand what it's like to be in Newcastle as everyone around me is devastated by bad news after bad news after bad news, watching the entire city sink into depression. Whatever pain and anger I'm feeling right now, I'm sure you're feeling more. That's not why I think protesting during the match is a bad idea though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LucaAltieri Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 I actually agree with HTT. I'm probably the only Toon fan in a 100 mile radius. I'll never understand what it's like to be in Newcastle as everyone around me is devastated by bad news after bad news after bad news, watching the entire city sink into depression. Whatever pain and anger I'm feeling right now, I'm sure you're feeling more. That's not why I think protesting during the match is a bad idea though. Nah it's bollocks. I am local and I don't fall into a downward spiral of depression when we lose. Half my mates aren't even Newcastle fans. Also, while living in London and Italy I got equally as pissed off when we lost. The 'local thing' is just used by those who want to make their opinions seem more valid than the people they disagree with. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Nah it's bollocks. I am local and I don't fall into a downward spiral of depression when we lose. Half my mates aren't even Newcastle fans. Also, while living in London and Italy I got equally as pissed off when we lost. The 'local thing' is just used by those who want to make their opinions seem more valid than the people they disagree with. I found it harder while living away, especially if the locals had won. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 I actually agree with HTT. I'm probably the only Toon fan in a 100 mile radius. I'll never understand what it's like to be in Newcastle as everyone around me is devastated by bad news after bad news after bad news, watching the entire city sink into depression. Whatever pain and anger I'm feeling right now, I'm sure you're feeling more. That's not why I think protesting during the match is a bad idea though. Nah it's bollocks. I am local and I don't fall into a downward spiral of depression when we lose. Half my mates aren't even Newcastle fans. Also, while living in London and Italy I got equally as pissed off when we lost. The 'local thing' is just used by those who want to make their opinions seem more valid than the people they disagree with. Who was it before who basically said it was acceptable if you chinned your lass whenever we lose? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Nah it's bollocks. I am local and I don't fall into a downward spiral of depression when we lose. Half my mates aren't even Newcastle fans. Also, while living in London and Italy I got equally as pissed off when we lost. The 'local thing' is just used by those who want to make their opinions seem more valid than the people they disagree with. I found it harder while living away, especially if the locals had won. Your wife says she's never found it hard with you yet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Your wife says she's never found it hard with you yet. The kids say she has. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Your wife says she's never found it hard with you yet. The kids say she has. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robster Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Your wife says she's never found it hard with you yet. The kids say she has. Your kids talk about stuff like that with you Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Your kids talk about stuff like that with you They never talk to me about anything. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robster Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Your kids talk about stuff like that with you They never talk to me about anything. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Your kids talk about stuff like that with you They never talk to me about anything. "Dad will you ever let me on that bastard computer?" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredbob Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Protest won't force Ashley take a loss sale. Relegation can. Am i reading this right? You want to risk the future of the club just to force out the man who could change it all, even though he;s given us the best first team in 5 years? Yet we're in our worst position as a club since gaining promotion in 1993. So its isnt the best first team we've had in 5 years? Is that what you're saying? No because it's not better than the team we had in 2004. Id say it was mighty close, closer than it has been for 4 years at least. Point pretty much stands still. How does your point still stand when it isn't even the best for 5 years? Best in 4 years then? January 05, the window we signed Boumsong and Babayaro. Id still argue that this first team would give the SBR 04 team a run for its money. My opinion anyway. Gerraway man you can't change your argument like that. What? Are you having one? The argument is the same its the timescale thats changed. If we hadnt improved our squad after Roeder i would be worried, if we hadnt improved our squad even further after Allardyce id be on your side, but we have, we improved our team continually throuoghout the reguime, its only people like you who dont want to acknowledge that. I dont understand why. Its emphtaic proof that he's doing good things for the club. albeit with one monstrous mistake, appointing Keegan. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilko Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Your kids talk about stuff like that with you They never talk to me about anything. "Dad will you ever let me on that bastard computer?" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nile Rangers Dreads Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 I think protesting will only do damage to the fans reputation. We're getting the reputation that we're quick to jump the gun now. Ashley doesn't have money to spend even if the protests were constructive... His businesses will be haemorrhaging cash, and he takes more notice over them than his toy football club. If he honestly cared and wanted to strengthen the team.. surely he'd have to sell shares, to get some money in. Which would also mean he couldnt make these knee-jerk reactions on his own...(appointing JFK) but would he do this? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 I just want a bit of communication from those who Kinnear reports into. That's not much to ask is it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cp40 Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Your kids talk about stuff like that with you They never talk to me about anything. "Dad will you ever let me on that bastard computer?" sounds like my place today..except more swearing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robster Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 I just want a bit of communication from those who Kinnear reports into. That's not much to ask is it? Dont forget Big Mike is going to tell us everything once the window closes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtype Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 I just want a bit of communication from those who Kinnear reports into. That's not much to ask is it? Dont forget Big Mike is going to tell us everything once the window closes. If there is actually a big grandstand Mike Ashley "statement" at the end of the window, I'll eat my hat. I'll eat two if we end up liking anything he said. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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