The Kevin Keegan thread

[TooonDoom]

So if Ashley is found to be in the wrong and Keegan wins, it's not actually Ashley's fault that the club will lose that money, it's Keegan's fault for persuing his legal entitlements?

 

What difference does it make who's fault it is? What are the repercussions for the club is what bothers me.

 

Indeed.  Who gives a crap who is right is some legal pissing contest between Ashley and Keegan (or more factually Keegan vs NUFC).  What I care about is the 10million and where that comes from.  We are in being run against what looks like a very tight budget (missing out on loan signings etc).  If we're lose ten million quid due to this we could be f***ed in terms of betting promoted.

 

And again despite who is right or wrong in the argument.  Keegan has chosen to sue the club.  We were relegated and obviously financially stuffed and Keegan still continued with his legal case.  Keegan was offered 4 million (allegedly) and he still carries on with his legal case to make an extra couple million.  All for personal gain.  IMO puts Keegan on an equal footing with Ashely if not worse.

 

 

 

 

Really,  '"Keegan a c*** on an equal footing with Ashley if not worse". Tell me are you ignorant, too young to remember or are you a Sunderland fan?   

 

Serious question

 

It seems to be typical of a significant percentage of posts on here. Thankfully I think you represent only a tiny proportion of Newcastle fans.

 

In my experience of talking to Newcastle fans at games, particularly the travelling supporters, your views and other views similar to yours have no credibility whatsoever, in fact they are quite offensive   

 

You have not responded to any thing I had to say just insulted me as my opinion is different to yours.... and yet you imply I am a child. 

 

I have no problem with your opinion being different to mine about whether Keegan should be claiming money that he thinks he is entitled to - thats what forums are all about.

 

I have a problem with you calling Keegan a c*** 

 

 

Fair enough my bad I take back calling him a c***. 

 

 

 

And again despite who is right or wrong in the argument.  Keegan has chosen to sue the club.  We were relegated and obviously financially stuffed and Keegan still continued with his legal case.  Keegan was offered 4 million (allegedly) and he still carries on with his legal case to make an extra couple million.  All for personal gain.  IMO puts Keegan on an equal footing with Ashely if not worse.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[UV]

This fits well into this thread I think.

 

The People tastefully compares Keegan leaving to getting cancer:

 

http://www.people.co.uk/sport/kidd/

 

Your description of the article is not at all accurate, is it? The message is that people should think carefully about who they call a hero, and it's a fair enough statement, in life as in football.

 

Should I consider all people who get cancer to be heroes? or all referees? or only those referees who get cancer and referee a game they couldn't possibly have their mind fully focused on?

 

If Keegan had cancer would it be ok for him to sue the club? Or would his wife have to have leukaemia & he have to have played non league football as a player too?

 

It's a ludicrous attempt to put Keegan in a bad light by contrasting his situation with someone you would naturally feel sympathy for and pretending there's some comparison to be made. Fortunately it's only the simple minded who fall for this kind of stuff. Unfortunately there seem to be enough of them out there to keep papers like the people going.

[Keefaz]

Were any of you lot at West Monkseaton post office about an hour ago? I was queuing to post some stuff and the gadgie ahead of me in the queue started talking about how Keegan 'walked away from every job he's had' and that he's a 'disgrace'. I swear there was almost a blazing row: it's like someone took this thread and made it real.

[cp40]

Were any of you lot at West Monkseaton post office about an hour ago? I was queuing to post some stuff and the gadgie ahead of me in the queue started talking about how Keegan 'walked away from every job he's had' and that he's a 'disgrace'. I swear there was almost a blazing row: it's like someone took this thread and made it real.

 

If hes still there, aal gaan doon an chin em!

[Keefaz]

Were any of you lot at West Monkseaton post office about an hour ago? I was queuing to post some stuff and the gadgie ahead of me in the queue started talking about how Keegan 'walked away from every job he's had' and that he's a 'disgrace'. I swear there was almost a blazing row: it's like someone took this thread and made it real.

 

If hes still there, aal gaan doon an chin em!

 

Fair to say that the fella behind the counter--who I know is a long-term ST holder and away dayer--had to bite his lip.

[Guest BooBoo]

I was in the Newcastle Arms post match after the Plymouth game and was surprised at the mass (well about 30-40 people) booing when KK's mush came on ESPNs tv coverage.

 

His crown has well and truly slipped.

[cp40]

I was in the Newcastle Arms post match after the Plymouth game and was surprised at the mass (well about 30-40 people) booing when KK's mush came on ESPNs tv coverage.

 

His crown has well and truly slipped.

 

 

boo

boo

[Mowen]

I was in the Newcastle Arms post match after the Plymouth game and was surprised at the mass (well about 30-40 people) booing when KK's mush came on ESPNs tv coverage.

 

His crown has well and truly slipped.

 

Not exactly related but I don't know how anyone can boo and keep a straight face. I've tried; it's impossible. You literally sound ridiculous, like you're trying to do a rubbish monkey impression or something.

[cp40]

I was in the Newcastle Arms post match after the Plymouth game and was surprised at the mass (well about 30-40 people) booing when KK's mush came on ESPNs tv coverage.

 

His crown has well and truly slipped.

 

Not exactly related but I don't know how anyone can boo and keep a straight face. I've tried; it's impossible. You literally sound ridiculous, like you're trying to do a rubbish monkey impression or something.

 

 

why would you try?

[Keefaz]

I was in the Newcastle Arms post match after the Plymouth game and was surprised at the mass (well about 30-40 people) booing when KK's mush came on ESPNs tv coverage.

 

His crown has well and truly slipped.

 

Not exactly related but I don't know how anyone can boo and keep a straight face. I've tried; it's impossible. You literally sound ridiculous, like you're trying to do a rubbish monkey impression or something.

 

That's why you just shout, "Boo, ya cunt".

[M4]

I was in the Newcastle Arms post match after the Plymouth game and was surprised at the mass (well about 30-40 people) booing when KK's mush came on ESPNs tv coverage.

 

His crown has well and truly slipped.

 

Good to hear

[Mowen]

I was in the Newcastle Arms post match after the Plymouth game and was surprised at the mass (well about 30-40 people) booing when KK's mush came on ESPNs tv coverage.

 

His crown has well and truly slipped.

 

Not exactly related but I don't know how anyone can boo and keep a straight face. I've tried; it's impossible. You literally sound ridiculous, like you're trying to do a rubbish monkey impression or something.

 

 

why would you try?

 

I was joining in. Think it was when Chopra got the ball at Cardiff. I listened to myself and had to stop.

[Guest BooBoo]

Booing is a strange thing. Yes its ridiculous but its a basic way in such a circumstance as a match to show annoyed displeasure.

 

It's also something that hardly anybody ever will have the guts to admit they do. Its like the walk out at the Wolves game in Bobby's reign. I know a lot of people who went to that game but no bugger will admit that they left early!

[Ishmael]

One good thing is that if Keegan wins THE CIRCUS STAYS OPEN

 

:frantic:

[Thespence]

One good thing is that if Keegan wins THE CIRCUS STAYS OPEN

 

It has lasted through the worst of the credit crunch so far. 

[Robster]

One good thing is that if Keegan wins THE CIRCUS STAYS OPEN

:frantic:

Yes. NUFC will stay open.

[TRon]

So if Ashley is found to be in the wrong and Keegan wins, it's not actually Ashley's fault that the club will lose that money, it's Keegan's fault for persuing his legal entitlements?

 

What difference does it make who's fault it is? What are the repercussions for the club is what bothers me.

 

Indeed.  Who gives a crap who is right is some legal pissing contest between Ashley and Keegan (or more factually Keegan vs NUFC).  What I care about is the 10million and where that comes from.  We are in being run against what looks like a very tight budget (missing out on loan signings etc).  If we're lose ten million quid due to this we could be f***ed in terms of betting promoted.

 

And again despite who is right or wrong in the argument.  Keegan has chosen to sue the club.  We were relegated and obviously financially stuffed and Keegan still continued with his legal case.  Keegan was offered 4 million (allegedly) and he still carries on with his legal case to make an extra couple million.  All for personal gain.  IMO this makes Keegan a c*** on equal footing with Ashely if not worse.

 

 

So the players must be c***s for picking up their wages each week.  In fact any member of staff picking up their legal entitlements from the club is a bigger c*** than Ashley according to this logic.  I mean, nobody should be taking money from the club under the current circumstances.  Even if they are legally entitled to it.

 

That's a completely false analogy. Keegan isn't claiming for work that he's done for the club. He's claiming that he should be paid up for the rest of his contract, despite the fact that he left the job early. There's also a suggestion that he's claiming for loss of supposed future earnings at other clubs. All of which would have to come out of the club.

 

In order to support Keegan you have to believe a) that his job had become impossible and  b) that it is fair that he gets paid compensation in quite large quantities (note - this is compensation, not earned wages). I find both difficult to accept.

 

There are also posters on here who actually believe that a) and b) are compatible with him 'loving' the club. None of us are on our best behaviour when there's large amounts of money at stake, and we shouldn't get too much on our high horse when someone tries to use grey areas of the law to make money. But we shouldn't look at it in any other way than as blatant self-seeking.

 

All that Keegan will get is what he's found to be legally entitled to.  It might be millions, it might be nothing but he won't be getting any money unless it's found (by the people who actually have the evidence in front of them) that he's in the right and the club was in the wrong.  In which case, the flow of money out of the club is down to the man that made the poor decisions rather than Keegan.

 

If it proves that Keegan is entitled to that money, I don't exactly see why he's a c*** for not pumping millions of what will effectively be his own cash directly into Ashley's pocket the club.

 

Well if Keegan's entitled to his wages after walking out of a job and fans are going to argue on his behalf from a legal perspective, then they can't really complain if Ashley keeps the club and bleeds it dry either. He put the money down and invested and he's just as entitled as Keegan to cash in I suppose, by that logic.

[Ishmael]

Any talk of Keegan being rightfully entitled to the money he could have potential eared prior to walking out is a bit daft.

 

 

[bovineblue]

So if Ashley is found to be in the wrong and Keegan wins, it's not actually Ashley's fault that the club will lose that money, it's Keegan's fault for persuing his legal entitlements?

 

What difference does it make who's fault it is? What are the repercussions for the club is what bothers me.

 

Indeed.  Who gives a crap who is right is some legal pissing contest between Ashley and Keegan (or more factually Keegan vs NUFC).  What I care about is the 10million and where that comes from.  We are in being run against what looks like a very tight budget (missing out on loan signings etc).  If we're lose ten million quid due to this we could be f***ed in terms of betting promoted.

 

And again despite who is right or wrong in the argument.  Keegan has chosen to sue the club.  We were relegated and obviously financially stuffed and Keegan still continued with his legal case.  Keegan was offered 4 million (allegedly) and he still carries on with his legal case to make an extra couple million.  All for personal gain.  IMO this makes Keegan a c*** on equal footing with Ashely if not worse.

 

 

So the players must be c***s for picking up their wages each week.  In fact any member of staff picking up their legal entitlements from the club is a bigger c*** than Ashley according to this logic.  I mean, nobody should be taking money from the club under the current circumstances.  Even if they are legally entitled to it.

 

That's a completely false analogy. Keegan isn't claiming for work that he's done for the club. He's claiming that he should be paid up for the rest of his contract, despite the fact that he left the job early. There's also a suggestion that he's claiming for loss of supposed future earnings at other clubs. All of which would have to come out of the club.

 

In order to support Keegan you have to believe a) that his job had become impossible and  b) that it is fair that he gets paid compensation in quite large quantities (note - this is compensation, not earned wages). I find both difficult to accept.

 

There are also posters on here who actually believe that a) and b) are compatible with him 'loving' the club. None of us are on our best behaviour when there's large amounts of money at stake, and we shouldn't get too much on our high horse when someone tries to use grey areas of the law to make money. But we shouldn't look at it in any other way than as blatant self-seeking.

 

All that Keegan will get is what he's found to be legally entitled to.  It might be millions, it might be nothing but he won't be getting any money unless it's found (by the people who actually have the evidence in front of them) that he's in the right and the club was in the wrong.  In which case, the flow of money out of the club is down to the man that made the poor decisions rather than Keegan.

 

If it proves that Keegan is entitled to that money, I don't exactly see why he's a c*** for not pumping millions of what will effectively be his own cash directly into Ashley's pocket the club.

 

Well if Keegan's entitled to his wages after walking out of a job and fans are going to argue on his behalf from a legal perspective, then they can't really complain if Ashley keeps the club and bleeds it dry either. He put the money down and invested and he's just as entitled as Keegan to cash in I suppose, by that logic.

 

Of course the fans can complain.  They can complain about anything they like.  They probably couldn't mount a legal objection to anything Ashley does though.

 

I'd just like to know exactly how it's Keegan's fault if it's found that Ashley didn't fulfill his legal and contratual obligations?

[TRon]

So if Ashley is found to be in the wrong and Keegan wins, it's not actually Ashley's fault that the club will lose that money, it's Keegan's fault for persuing his legal entitlements?

 

What difference does it make who's fault it is? What are the repercussions for the club is what bothers me.

 

Indeed.  Who gives a crap who is right is some legal pissing contest between Ashley and Keegan (or more factually Keegan vs NUFC).  What I care about is the 10million and where that comes from.  We are in being run against what looks like a very tight budget (missing out on loan signings etc).  If we're lose ten million quid due to this we could be f***ed in terms of betting promoted.

 

And again despite who is right or wrong in the argument.  Keegan has chosen to sue the club.  We were relegated and obviously financially stuffed and Keegan still continued with his legal case.  Keegan was offered 4 million (allegedly) and he still carries on with his legal case to make an extra couple million.  All for personal gain.  IMO this makes Keegan a c*** on equal footing with Ashely if not worse.

 

 

So the players must be c***s for picking up their wages each week.  In fact any member of staff picking up their legal entitlements from the club is a bigger c*** than Ashley according to this logic.  I mean, nobody should be taking money from the club under the current circumstances.  Even if they are legally entitled to it.

 

That's a completely false analogy. Keegan isn't claiming for work that he's done for the club. He's claiming that he should be paid up for the rest of his contract, despite the fact that he left the job early. There's also a suggestion that he's claiming for loss of supposed future earnings at other clubs. All of which would have to come out of the club.

 

In order to support Keegan you have to believe a) that his job had become impossible and  b) that it is fair that he gets paid compensation in quite large quantities (note - this is compensation, not earned wages). I find both difficult to accept.

 

There are also posters on here who actually believe that a) and b) are compatible with him 'loving' the club. None of us are on our best behaviour when there's large amounts of money at stake, and we shouldn't get too much on our high horse when someone tries to use grey areas of the law to make money. But we shouldn't look at it in any other way than as blatant self-seeking.

 

All that Keegan will get is what he's found to be legally entitled to.  It might be millions, it might be nothing but he won't be getting any money unless it's found (by the people who actually have the evidence in front of them) that he's in the right and the club was in the wrong.  In which case, the flow of money out of the club is down to the man that made the poor decisions rather than Keegan.

 

If it proves that Keegan is entitled to that money, I don't exactly see why he's a c*** for not pumping millions of what will effectively be his own cash directly into Ashley's pocket the club.

 

Well if Keegan's entitled to his wages after walking out of a job and fans are going to argue on his behalf from a legal perspective, then they can't really complain if Ashley keeps the club and bleeds it dry either. He put the money down and invested and he's just as entitled as Keegan to cash in I suppose, by that logic.

 

Of course the fans can complain.  They can complain about anything they like.  They probably couldn't mount a legal objection to anything Ashley does though.

 

I'd just like to know exactly how it's Keegan's fault if it's found that Ashley didn't fulfill his legal and contratual obligations?

 

Of course it's not Keegan's fault if it's found that Ashley didn't fulfil his legal and contractual obligations. On the other hand it will be Keegan's fault if it's found he did. This is a correct and perfectly legal response to your post, I sent the draft to my solicitor to check before posting.

[Tooj]

Has this been posted?

 

What a coincidence that on the day Kevin Keegan’s tribunal battle with Mike Ashley ended, quotes appear from a “club source“ saying Keegan is crazy, and claiming the club will be forced into administration if he wins a pay out of up to £25 million.

 

Surely that would send the Toon Army into a panic, and get them railing against their ex-manager and hero?

 

Not likely. The Geordie fans are not stupid. They can spot a piece of devious, conniving spin aimed at trashing Keegan and the good reputation he earned from a thrilling playing and managerial career at St James’s Park.

 

Anyone remember the “club source" who claimed Keegan was mad 12 months ago, saying his transfer wish list was a joke and like fantasy football?

 

Or the club source who briefed a year ago that Ashley would not be appointing Alan Shearer because it would be like putting a graduate trainee in charge of his Sport Direct business?

 

If this is how nasty it gets in public, imagine how heated, abusive and vindictive it got between Keegan and Ashley’s cronies in private or via email.

 

The latest attempt to discredit Keegan was being peddled around the North East last week and the people who fell for it should be showing more insight into the financial affairs of the club, and the agendas of those involved.

 

Keegan has every right to claim damages for being forced out through a tribunal. It is what any worker is entitled to do if they’d been treated unfairly.

 

To claim he is trying to force the club into administration - resulting in a ten point deduction - is ludicrous.

 

Remember one man who said as much during the summer. MD Derek Llambias himself, who said: “There is absolutely no truth in the story whatsoever. It’s ridiculous, it’s usually based on a rumour and I don’t know where these things are hatched.”.

[Mowen]

Kinnear will be fuming.

[Cronky]

The big assumption is that a story in a newspaper must have a 'source'. It's nonsense. Journalists will often make things up from nothing.

[UV]

Unfortunately, Simon Bird gives some of our support too much credit.

 

There's also this from 2 weeks ago

 

Kevin Keegan is risking his reputation as a Newcastle hero by taking on Mike Ashley this week for a £10 million pay off..... but he is right to fight his corner.

 

The former boss will be smeared with accusations that he is being greedy, kicking the club when it is down, and cashing in after walking out when the going got tough.

 

But Keegan’s case against Ashley, which will go before a Premier League Arbitration Panel this week, will serve as a warning to owners that undermining managers by appointing directors of football, above their head and holding all the transfer power, is no way to run a football club.

 

Especially when the man you appoint is Dennis Wise, and his chums, whose track record of buying and selling at St James’s Park left the club with a squad heading towards the Championship.

 

Keegan has kept a low profile in the last 12 months, emerging recently as a pundit on ESPN’s new Premier League coverage. He has not gone public to explain the details of his case against Ashley, but it appears to be a powerful one.

 

It is a misconception that Geordies still go all misty eyed over Keegan. There is plenty of debate on Tyneside whether the legend is right to still pursue Ashley, and ultimately the club, for a huge sum, when the finances at St James’s are already in a mess.

 

Many believe that the sale of Newcastle has been held up because Keegan’s case has been pending. Who wants to buy a club for £100 million... then immediately have to pay out £10 million to an ex-manager?

 

And many believe that Keegan’s claim has given Ashley a convenient excuse to withhold funds of transfers this summer.

 

And there are plenty who say that Keegan has always been obsessed by money - take as evidence his frequent mentions of finances in his autobiography where he detailed many a novel scheme to cash in during his playing career... including a percentage of the increase in gate money when he first joined United as a player.

 

Yet Keegan is fighting for a principle too, albeit a lucrative one.

 

He believed he would have the final say on all transfer dealings, but it soon became clear that targets he mentioned were being derided behind the scenes by Wise and his transfer team.

 

Instead Wise bought players like Fabricio Coloccini at huge cost - Joe Kinnear claimed that including agent fees it was £12 million.

 

And the final straw was on transfer deadline day, that now infamous deal to sign Spain U21 international Xisco and Ignacio Gonzalez, offer most of Keegan’s squad up for sale, and fail to land the man he wanted to replace James Milner, German star Sebastian Schweinsteiger.

 

Keegan will be able to cite a raft of evidence from club publications to show he was supposed to be in charge of transfers. The match day programme, the club website and magazine all carried promises from Wise that Keegan was running the show... only for the reality to be very different.

 

The reality was Keegan was treated with disdain by Wise and his transfer team who spoke to him during meetings with disrespect for his standing in the game.

 

So put yourself in Keegan’s position. You haven’t been backed by the owner. They’ve signed you a team who you did not choose. Then you are expected to go out and manage them, knowing if they fail, you get the sack because it is supposed to be your team.

 

That is not how football management works.

 

There is an argument that Keegan should have sat tight at St James’s Park. He could have got his message across at the behind the scenes turmoil he was embroiled in, and the fans have rowed in behind him and understood his plight.

 

But as many of Ashley’s business rivals have found out, get into a battle with him and he fights tough, and as owner he’d be the eventual winner.

 

We have not heard Ashley’s side yet, but I am sure there will be dirt thrown. Just like the briefings when Keegan left that he was deluded, living in the past and had a ridiculous fantasy wish list of transfer targets.

 

By the way that ignores the fact that Keegan, not Wise, used his contacts to land Sebastian Bassong for a bargain £500,000, helping the club to a £7 million profit when he was sold last month.

 

If the Premier League can’t sort out the dispute then it may go to the High Court, and at last we’ll have the full story laid out in all its messy glory.

 

So don’t just think of the vast sum that Keegan will trouser if he wins his case. Think of it as victory for how a football club should be run - with a manager as the figurehead and pulling the strings in the transfer market.

 

Think of it as a deserved slap in the face for Ashley who wanted to use Keegan’s appointment to be popular with the fans, and ended up treating him with contempt.

 

And that’s a familiar old story isn’t it. Just ask Alan Shearer.

[Mowen]

Good article that. Who does Bird write for?