That crazy high line

[oldtype]

A lot of people lambast Kinnear for playing long-ball tactics, probably out of the common myth that s*** football = long ball.

 

The reality is that we actually play a mixed passing style with a very high line that tries to put pressure on the opponent and play the offisde trap.

 

And that high line is precisely what's dropping us in the s***.

 

Just look at the second half today, Mowbray noticed what we were doing and just had his players ping high ball after high ball after high ball in the second half, and we suffered for it.

 

This used to work decently well when we had Beye coordinating things and playing last-ditch tackles to make up for the empty space, but our current backline simply isn't well-coordinated enough to play this kind of defense.

 

This is also precisely the wrong system for Coloccini, who doesn't have the physical presence to head away long balls and get exposed way, way too often when he's forced to stand on a high line like that.

 

We got away with it today, there is going to have to be some adapting done if we're going to stay up.

 

 

 

[Dave]

Yeah but defence is all Kinnear works on.

[Mistle17]

Colo and Enrique got caught a few times today and we were pretty lucky not to get punished.

 

Against a better side we could've paid dearly for it.

[Yorkie]

I have noticed us playing too high up a couple of times now. What's more frustrating is that when it's blatantly obvious it isn't working, we don't alter it. Happened at home to West Ham aswell.

 

Agree with the long-ball comment btw - we don't play that. We're fairly route one but not necassarily just pumping it long all the time, and i'm glad you've highlighted that 'myth' - as you say.

[relámpago blanco]

Imagine if we played this high line and we had Lovenkrands and Martins against it.  It's shame no other manager is retarded enough to use it like we do, considering the type of defenders we have.

[Guest LucaAltieri]

Imagine if we played this high line and we had Lovenkrands and Martins against it.  It's shame no other manager is retarded enough to use it like we do, considering the type of defenders we have.

 

Megson has used it this season.

[ikri]

And because we don't practice what to do when we're not defending our attacking play has turned to shit

[Guest Chris P]

Totally agree. We tried the same against City and lost . The only advantage i can see is that it compensates for a complete lack of a midfield, Butt  was atrocious today again .

[TRon]

Totally agree. We tried the same against City and lost . The only advantage i can see is that it compensates for a complete lack of a midfield, Butt  was atrocious today again .

 

I think the high line is played because of the lack of mobility in midfield. Butt has problems getting up and down the pitch because he's a relic and from what I've seen of Nolan he doesn't look like he's got much of an engine either...or maybe he's just not fit yet. The high line allows the midfielders to play in one half so they don't get gassed as quickly.

[Guest Phil K]

We're playing crap

And we'll be lucky to survive this season

Things need to change - NOT look for excuses for them

[Slugsy]

Very much agree, good op post

[hakka]

Totally agree. We tried the same against City and lost . The only advantage i can see is that it compensates for a complete lack of a midfield, Butt  was atrocious today again .

 

Butt did some odd things today.  There was one point where he did a really clever spin on the spot which conned the opposition player in to running around him.  After doing this move with bit of guile, he then has a man to pass to about 3 yards away to his left.  Instead of making this simple pass, he fucks up by hitting it wrong and it goes too far forward and lands closer to another opposition player.  So frustrating to watch him do something positive and then nullify it with something so stupid.

[Raconteur]

This really was the standout tactical flaw I noticed last night too (not to mention the mackems goal lest week) - it really seems as though the defenders aren't on the same page when it comes to the offside trap. It wasn't just Colo and Enrique either (though they were the worst offenders) - Taylor was guilty of it a few times as well.

 

And when you consider that JFK and Hughton were both defenders, it beggars belief that our defenders can't operate a simple offside trap!

[Jayson]

Bassong gave Enrique a right rollocking yesterday....he nearly played one of their players through for a 1 on 1 at one point. We were v lucky.

 

Problem is we sit back and the ball goes around our box we're done

If we play a high line and try to get them offside we'll get done

 

Either way we'll get done

Just depends on whether individually they're having good games or not. Colo & taylor cause us problems.

[merlin]

To play a high defensive line successfully, you need several qualities in your side;-

1. Pacey defenders

2.Intelligent defenders with a great organiser running the back 4

3.An ability throughout the side - but esp the midfield - not to lose possession easily

4.A keeper who reads the game well and is quick off his line.

 

Of the 4 qualities mentioned above, I reckon we only have possibly one - the latter, and even THAT is not certain ; when Beye is in the side, we go some way to addressing Point 1, but that is all.

 

Liverpool in the 70s/80s used to play that way because they had most of the qualities mentioned above, but even they got caught out sometimes - we did them in 1974, 6 months after the infamous Cup Final, and Derby did them a few years earlier, simply by exploiting the high line. I think they were beaten by 4-1 and 4-0 respectively, but it worked for them most of the time by catching opposition forwards offside..a dangerous game when the opposition have speedy forwards.

[Thespence]

To play a high defensive line successfully, you need several qualities in your side;-

1. Pacey defenders

2.Intelligent defenders with a great organiser running the back 4

3.An ability throughout the side - but esp the midfield - not to lose possession easily

4.A keeper who reads the game well and is quick off his line.

 

So we need quick intelligent defenders & one of them should be a leader, who play in front of a keeper who reads the game well & is quick off his line & our team overall should have the ability not to lose  possession easily. I think you would want them sort of qualities in any tactics.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

We either play too deep or too high a line, seemingly unable to play either depending on the shape of the game. The better organised sides don't play one way or another, they adjust during the game based on how the game is being played out. It is absolutely criminal to go into any game deciding we'll play high up or deep, you play high or deep based on what's happening around you.

[Skirge]

Nothing wrong with a high line at least we do not sit back and invite trouble like we did under Big Sam but its the stupid offside trap we try to use to offten that is causing up problems, Colo is terrible at it, slow to get out all the time and a pure lack of comunication across the back.

We should defend the balla ct to the situation not just try to all push out together coz we can't do it.

[ElDiablo]

We either play too deep or too high a line, seemingly unable to play either depending on the shape of the game. The better organised sides don't play one way or another, they adjust during the game based on how the game is being played out. It is absolutely criminal to go into any game deciding we'll play high up or deep, you play high or deep based on what's happening around you.

 

Our midfield doesn't help, they just drop off 15 yards or so when we lose the ball and surrender the initiative, meaning we're succeptible to a ball over the top due to the defence not having time to get back.

[Heron]

To play a high defensive line successfully, you need several qualities in your side;-

1. Pacey defenders

2.Intelligent defenders with a great organiser running the back 4

3.An ability throughout the side - but esp the midfield - not to lose possession easily

4.A keeper who reads the game well and is quick off his line.

 

Of the 4 qualities mentioned above, I reckon we only have possibly one - the latter, and even THAT is not certain ; when Beye is in the side, we go some way to addressing Point 1, but that is all.

 

Liverpool in the 70s/80s used to play that way because they had most of the qualities mentioned above, but even they got caught out sometimes - we did them in 1974, 6 months after the infamous Cup Final, and Derby did them a few years earlier, simply by exploiting the high line. I think they were beaten by 4-1 and 4-0 respectively, but it worked for them most of the time by catching opposition forwards offside..a dangerous game when the opposition have speedy forwards.

 

I kind of disagree. Not on the points you mentioned but on what you claim we do and don't have. I believe we have pacey defenders (well at least two) in Bassong and Beye. We have intelligent defenders like Coloccini and Bassong, Beye and even Enrique. We don't have a leader I agree and I think we are reasonably OK Goalkeeper wise.

 

Like I say we are missing a leader and I agree with that, but I reckon our biggest flaw is our managers' (and possibly scouts') work in addressing our oppositions strengths and weaknesses. For example, playing a high line like you say against pacey strikers is pretty dangerous as it is more than likely at least 1 will come off. Sitting deep is equally as dangerous if you don't have the players with the legs to pressure in and around their own goal, especially when you're playing a team with players who can strike one from distance and score.

 

So aye, I don't think it's necessarily our back four, but I would say it is our lack of a midfield and our managerial/scouting weaknesses that force us to concede goals.