NUSC - Good or Bad?

[ewerk]

Jesus! How hard is it for the thou shalt do join NUSC or burn in the pits of hell brigade to grasp the really rather simple concept that, yes i will do fuck all to try and help a group whose goals, objectives and methods i oppose! It's exactly that kind of ignorant & arrogant attitude that's a large part of the problem with NUSC. At present NUSC is not a supporters' club if it becomes one i may consider joining but until then i am not going to give them any support or money for the reasons i've already said

 

What I am saying is that this is the best opportunity in a long time to get a proper supporters' group up and running. You might feel that you wouldn't be listened to if you attended a meeting but as Dave says, if there were a number of people who felt like you and you all made your feelings known then you couldn't be ignored. There was no requirement to be a member to attend the last meeting so if youself and others feel so strongly about NUSC's aims then tell them without having to sign your soul away.

 

You mightn't feel that you're being represented at the moment but I still think that NUSC is the best vehicle for change that we have and no one is saying that you have to join but if you really want change at the club then tell NUSC what you want and you may find that they will support your aims. A diversity of views and opinions will only improve NUSC imo.

[Syrette]

So you admit that you're willing to do fuck all then? You're not willing to try and influence them and you're content to sit on your arse while knocking others who are trying to do something. Fair enough then. While there is a lot I see wrong with how NUSC have behaved thus far, I see it as an opportunity to finally get a supporters' group together who may have a decent voice and I'm willing to give them a chance to prove themselves.

 

You say your point of view wouldn't be listened to by NUSC, how the fuck do you know? You haven't tried. So sit behind your computer and snipe from the sidelines if that's what makes you happy but until you've tried to do something useful with your criticism I think it's a bit pathetic.

 

Completely agree. If there were a significant number of people who attended the meetings and made their feelings known then their position wouldn't be a minority would it. NUSC have gone with what most attendees feel; I can't see how on earth they can be criticised for that.

 

I don't get that, at all. So they shouldn't be criticised by outsiders?

 

If people are bothered enough by the NUSC, and feel that their voice might hold some weight and could influence things (perhaps along with similar minds), then yes if they can logistically get to a meeting or whatever then they perhaps should.

[Dave]

So you admit that you're willing to do fuck all then? You're not willing to try and influence them and you're content to sit on your arse while knocking others who are trying to do something. Fair enough then. While there is a lot I see wrong with how NUSC have behaved thus far, I see it as an opportunity to finally get a supporters' group together who may have a decent voice and I'm willing to give them a chance to prove themselves.

 

You say your point of view wouldn't be listened to by NUSC, how the fuck do you know? You haven't tried. So sit behind your computer and snipe from the sidelines if that's what makes you happy but until you've tried to do something useful with your criticism I think it's a bit pathetic.

 

Completely agree. If there were a significant number of people who attended the meetings and made their feelings known then their position wouldn't be a minority would it. NUSC have gone with what most attendees feel; I can't see how on earth they can be criticised for that.

 

I don't get that, at all. So they shouldn't be criticised by outsiders?

 

If people are bothered enough by the NUSC, and feel that their voice might hold some weight and could influence things (perhaps along with similar minds), then yes if they can logistically get to a meeting or whatever then they perhaps should.

 

I didn't say they shouldn't be criticised at all. I'm saying I can't understand how they can be criticised for going with what the vast majority of the people who turn(ed) up think.

 

40% of people on this poll reckon they are totally opposed to the NUSC's views. Do you believe that the NUSC would ignore 40% of a 500-strong crowd? Would they fuck.

[Syrette]

Fair enough, must have misread your post.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

So you admit that you're willing to do fuck all then? You're not willing to try and influence them and you're content to sit on your arse while knocking others who are trying to do something. Fair enough then. While there is a lot I see wrong with how NUSC have behaved thus far, I see it as an opportunity to finally get a supporters' group together who may have a decent voice and I'm willing to give them a chance to prove themselves.

 

You say your point of view wouldn't be listened to by NUSC, how the fuck do you know? You haven't tried. So sit behind your computer and snipe from the sidelines if that's what makes you happy but until you've tried to do something useful with your criticism I think it's a bit pathetic.

 

Completely agree. If there were a significant number of people who attended the meetings and made their feelings known then their position wouldn't be a minority would it. NUSC have gone with what most attendees feel; I can't see how on earth they can be criticised for that.

 

I don't get that, at all. So they shouldn't be criticised by outsiders?

 

If people are bothered enough by the NUSC, and feel that their voice might hold some weight and could influence things (perhaps along with similar minds), then yes if they can logistically get to a meeting or whatever then they perhaps should.

 

I didn't say they shouldn't be criticised at all. I'm saying I can't understand how they can be criticised for going with what the vast majority of the people who turn(ed) up think.

 

40% of people on this poll reckon they are totally opposed to the NUSC's views. Do you believe that the NUSC would ignore 40% of a 500-strong crowd? Would they fuck.

 

That's completely true Dave, but it's also part of the problem. The reason that the NUSC don't have those 40% is because they started out (and are still suffering the reputation) as an Ashley-out protest group and most people who hold another view would see joining as pointless.

 

We can argue for ever on the rights and wrongs of that but I think it's the current reality.

[Dave]

They started out as an Ashley-out protest group because that was the overwhelming view of the people who went to the first few meetings. They represented the view of the people who were bothered enough to go to the meetings and make themselves heard. Their overall views will only change if the views of the majority of people turning up and/or their members change.

[Parky]

They started out as an Ashley-out protest group because that was the overwhelming view of the people who went to the first few meetings. They represented the view of the people who were bothered enough to go to the meetings and make themselves heard. Their overall views will only change if the views of the majority of people turning up and/or their members change.

 

That's too complicated Dave. 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

They started out as an Ashley-out protest group because that was the overwhelming view of the people who went to the first few meetings. They represented the view of the people who were bothered enough to go to the meetings and make themselves heard. Their overall views will only change if the views of the majority of people turning up and/or their members change.

 

I understand that, you're completely correct.

 

All I'm saying is that the fact you point out means that people with other views are unlikely to join.

 

(Thanks for the patronising dig though Parky!)

[Parky]

They started out as an Ashley-out protest group because that was the overwhelming view of the people who went to the first few meetings. They represented the view of the people who were bothered enough to go to the meetings and make themselves heard. Their overall views will only change if the views of the majority of people turning up and/or their members change.

 

I understand that, you're completely correct.

 

All I'm saying is that the fact you point out means that people with other views are unlikely to join.

 

(Thanks for the patronising dig though Parky!)

 

No worries.

[indi]

For the last time. People who are opposed to NUSC do not have to go along and should not feel obliged or be pressured to do so. The NUSC supporters are essentially saying that if you're a nufc fan then you have to be involved with NUSC, that's total bollocks!! When they are a supporters' club then supporters will get involved, whilst they're a protest group only protesters will join. It's a very simple concept i'm surprised so many are struggling with it.

[Syrette]

For the last time. People who are opposed to NUSC do not have to go along and should not feel obliged or be pressured to do so. The NUSC supporters are essentially saying that if you're a nufc fan then you have to be involved with NUSC, that's total bollocks!! When they are a supporters' club then supporters will get involved, whilst they're a protest group only protesters will join. It's a very simple concept i'm surprised so many are struggling with it.

 

Exactly. It's pretty simple.

[ewerk]

For the last time. People who are opposed to NUSC do not have to go along and should not feel obliged or be pressured to do so. The NUSC supporters are essentially saying that if you're a nufc fan then you have to be involved with NUSC, that's total bollocks!! When they are a supporters' club then supporters will get involved, whilst they're a protest group only protesters will join. It's a very simple concept i'm surprised so many are struggling with it.

 

Do you believe that Mike Ashley's running of the club is the biggest issue for us at the moment?

[Dave]

For the last time. People who are opposed to NUSC do not have to go along and should not feel obliged or be pressured to do so. The NUSC supporters are essentially saying that if you're a nufc fan then you have to be involved with NUSC, that's total bollocks!! When they are a supporters' club then supporters will get involved, whilst they're a protest group only protesters will join. It's a very simple concept i'm surprised so many are struggling with it.

 

How do you expect their position to change when nearly everyone who turns up is supportive of the original position, which was based on the feelings of the people who turned up originally? They are representing the feelings of the vast majority of the people who go to their meetings, why would they do any different?

[Syrette]

I didn't say they shouldn't be criticised at all. I'm saying I can't understand how they can be criticised for going with what the vast majority of the people who turn(ed) up think.

 

40% of people on this poll reckon they are totally opposed to the NUSC's views. Do you believe that the NUSC would ignore 40% of a 500-strong crowd? Would they fuck.

 

Actually...

 

Let's not call it criticism, let's just call it disagreeing. If I disagree with certain elements of them, how they go or have gone about things, why shouldn't I?

 

If the vast majority of them think something, then fair enough, good for them, I still might disagree with it.

 

Would anything like 40% turn up? I doubt it. I'm not saying they wouldn't listen.

[Syrette]

For the last time. People who are opposed to NUSC do not have to go along and should not feel obliged or be pressured to do so. The NUSC supporters are essentially saying that if you're a nufc fan then you have to be involved with NUSC, that's total bollocks!! When they are a supporters' club then supporters will get involved, whilst they're a protest group only protesters will join. It's a very simple concept i'm surprised so many are struggling with it.

 

How do you expect their position to change when nearly everyone who turns up is supportive of the original position, which was based on the feelings of the people who turned up originally? They are representing the feelings of the vast majority of the people who go to their meetings, why would they do any different?

 

I'm pretty sure his point was one against the idea that if you're opposed to them, then you must let them know.

 

He's just saying being opposed to them does not equal an obligation to attend their meetings to tell them.

[Dave]

FWIW I'm not saying people are not entitled to their opinion on the NUSC and their aims, there are elements that I feel could have been dealt with better too.

 

It just irritates me that some are so snidey about it and eager to mock from the anonymous safety of an internet forum.

[OzzieMandias]

FWIW I'm not saying people are not entitled to their opinion on the NUSC and their aims, there are elements that I feel could have been dealt with better too.

 

It just irritates me that some are so snidey about it and eager to mock from the anonymous safety of an internet forum.

 

Ban all discussion of it, then.

 

If there IS discussion, then those critical of the NUSC will of course have their say, and you will be irritated.

[OzzieMandias]

They started out as an Ashley-out protest group because that was the overwhelming view of the people who went to the first few meetings. They represented the view of the people who were bothered enough to go to the meetings and make themselves heard. Their overall views will only change if the views of the majority of people turning up and/or their members change.

 

They started out as an Ashley-out protest group because they started out as an anti-Ashley protest group. Now there's a kind of lock-in phenomenon working. Those who want to moan about Ashley gravitate towards it. Those with a less simplistic viewpoint steer well clear.

[Guest The Libertine]

It just irritates me that some are so snidey about it and eager to mock from the anonymous safety of an internet forum.

 

you've been on this forum before, yeah?

[indi]

For the last time. People who are opposed to NUSC do not have to go along and should not feel obliged or be pressured to do so. The NUSC supporters are essentially saying that if you're a nufc fan then you have to be involved with NUSC, that's total bollocks!! When they are a supporters' club then supporters will get involved, whilst they're a protest group only protesters will join. It's a very simple concept i'm surprised so many are struggling with it.

 

Do you believe that Mike Ashley's running of the club is the biggest issue for us at the moment?

 

I don't see in as simplistic a way as that, so no.

 

There are many issues affecting the club, involving the actions of Ashley, the previous board, and the fans. No one person is to blame for the situation we find ourselves in at present.

 

NUSC offer nothing at all to the situation.

[indi]

For the last time. People who are opposed to NUSC do not have to go along and should not feel obliged or be pressured to do so. The NUSC supporters are essentially saying that if you're a nufc fan then you have to be involved with NUSC, that's total bollocks!! When they are a supporters' club then supporters will get involved, whilst they're a protest group only protesters will join. It's a very simple concept i'm surprised so many are struggling with it.

 

How do you expect their position to change when nearly everyone who turns up is supportive of the original position, which was based on the feelings of the people who turned up originally? They are representing the feelings of the vast majority of the people who go to their meetings, why would they do any different?

 

I don't expect their position to change regardless of whether people turn up to oppose, it or not.

 

Are you seriously claiming that a whole load of people just happened to randomly turn up in the same place at the same time and after having gone into the room with a totally open mind they came out hating Ashley's guts, wanting him out and having formed NUSC!?!

 

NUSC was set up as a protest group, it remains a protest group, it is not a supporters' club, whatever it says on the tin.

 

Do you think the BNP would decide to change to stop being a load of racist cunts and change all their policies if a load of black people went to their meetings and joined their party? If a load of City traders started turning up at the Communist Party meetings, do you think they'd renounce collective ownership and "to each according to their needs", put up a framed picture of Maggie Thatcher and hand out red braces and blue shirts with white cuffs and collars to all their members?

 

Of course they wouldn't!

 

NUSC's agenda was set before it even existed, it has consistently stuck to that agenda throughout it's existence and will continue to do so, it will not change, whether I and those like me, sign up or not. You've listened to the meeting, are you really telling me that the couple of people who made comments that weren't obviously anti-Ashley were taken seriously?

 

 

Apart from anything, and I keep bringing this up and hardly anyone responds, but NUSC are doing a shit job of representing their members anyway. A grand total of 3 meetings in 6 months, of which only one was a genuine NUSC meeting, does that really sound like an organisation that wants to find out what its members want and then discuss with them how to go about getting it? I'd have thought that an organisation in it's infancy like NUSC, would be all about meetings and discussion, how else do you form the goals and aims of such a thing? The only reason I can think of for having so few meetings would be if there was no need to find out and discuss what the club was all about, if that was already decided and went without saying, yet I'm reliably told that they'll listen to me if I go along and might even change their direction as a result. They don't even listen to the people who agree with them, why the fuck would they listen to me and others who disagree. NUSC is not about debate, it's about a few people trying to gather support behind their agenda, that agenda is getting Ashley out at all costs. If you don't have the same agenda NUSC is not the place for you...

 

...but they'll happily take your tenner off you.

 

Seriously though, what benefit have NUSC had for their members?

 

I wouldn't even join NUSC if I agreed with them.

[Dave]

FWIW I'm not saying people are not entitled to their opinion on the NUSC and their aims, there are elements that I feel could have been dealt with better too.

 

It just irritates me that some are so snidey about it and eager to mock from the anonymous safety of an internet forum.

 

Ban all discussion of it, then.

 

If there IS discussion, then those critical of the NUSC will of course have their say, and you will be irritated.

 

Can you not read? How wonderfully ironic that you of all people are resorting to such rubbish.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

Indi is actually right in so far as it is up to NUSC to become a supporters club for supporters rather than it being all down to fans in general to shape NUSC. Of course NUSC needs new members to help set the agenda or in their case to help change it but only because they have set the agenda themselves instead of allowing the membership to dictate. Now that isn't their fault because the agenda itself is what created NUSC. They now need to ditch all agendas however and start afresh and rather than appeal to fans to join a rally, boycott or to share some common anti-Ashley view, they need to appeal to fans to join a supporters club that exists to serve them as supporters which for me is about ticket prices, standing, away game allocations, travel, stewarding, creating a better atmosphere etc. That's what they should be all about and if their members decide one day they are not happy with the owner or whatever, then see to their needs then.

 

[Dave]

For the last time. People who are opposed to NUSC do not have to go along and should not feel obliged or be pressured to do so. The NUSC supporters are essentially saying that if you're a nufc fan then you have to be involved with NUSC, that's total bollocks!! When they are a supporters' club then supporters will get involved, whilst they're a protest group only protesters will join. It's a very simple concept i'm surprised so many are struggling with it.

 

How do you expect their position to change when nearly everyone who turns up is supportive of the original position, which was based on the feelings of the people who turned up originally? They are representing the feelings of the vast majority of the people who go to their meetings, why would they do any different?

 

I don't expect their position to change regardless of whether people turn up to oppose, it or not.

 

Are you seriously claiming that a whole load of people just happened to randomly turn up in the same place at the same time and after having gone into the room with a totally open mind they came out hating Ashley's guts, wanting him out and having formed NUSC!?!

 

NUSC was set up as a protest group, it remains a protest group, it is not a supporters' club, whatever it says on the tin.

 

Do you think the BNP would decide to change to stop being a load of racist cunts and change all their policies if a load of black people went to their meetings and joined their party? If a load of City traders started turning up at the Communist Party meetings, do you think they'd renounce collective ownership and "to each according to their needs", put up a framed picture of Maggie Thatcher and hand out red braces and blue shirts with white cuffs and collars to all their members?

 

Of course they wouldn't!

 

NUSC's agenda was set before it even existed, it has consistently stuck to that agenda throughout it's existence and will continue to do so, it will not change, whether I and those like me, sign up or not. You've listened to the meeting, are you really telling me that the couple of people who made comments that weren't obviously anti-Ashley were taken seriously?

 

 

Apart from anything, and I keep bringing this up and hardly anyone responds, but NUSC are doing a shit job of representing their members anyway. A grand total of 3 meetings in 6 months, of which only one was a genuine NUSC meeting, does that really sound like an organisation that wants to find out what its members want and then discuss with them how to go about getting it? I'd have thought that an organisation in it's infancy like NUSC, would be all about meetings and discussion, how else do you form the goals and aims of such a thing? The only reason I can think of for having so few meetings would be if there was no need to find out and discuss what the club was all about, if that was already decided and went without saying, yet I'm reliably told that they'll listen to me if I go along and might even change their direction as a result. They don't even listen to the people who agree with them, why the fuck would they listen to me and others who disagree. NUSC is not about debate, it's about a few people trying to gather support behind their agenda, that agenda is getting Ashley out at all costs. If you don't have the same agenda NUSC is not the place for you...

 

...but they'll happily take your tenner off you.

 

Seriously though, what benefit have NUSC had for their members?

 

I wouldn't even join NUSC if I agreed with them.

 

I'd expect those organisations would soon disappear if nobody held positions similar to their original core values. If nobody had turned up and given the clear direction which was to protest and try get Ashley out then there probably wouldn't even be an NUSC by now; it would just be a small group of angry fans. The fact is there were a LOT of angry fans, many of whom have been willing to pay money to support the NUSC. Many are still angry now. As HTT says, the 'Ashley out' agenda was what brought NUSC about in the first place.

 

Until the likes of the 100+ people voting on this poll turn up, I doubt they'll be considering their position. Is it their fault that they are still being told by the vast majority of their members and those who go to the meetings that we are best boycotting the club and trying to force Ashley out? It's clear from the audio link that they still represent the views of that vast majority.

 

If you think they are actively damaging the club you care about then I don't think it's unreasonable to ask what you and others that find it so easy to mock are doing to tell them other opinions exist and arguing your particular case. Alternatively if you don't give a shit about them and think they're a waste of time, why bother with all the slagging off in threads such as this one?

[Liam Liam Liam O]

FWIW I'm not saying people are not entitled to their opinion on the NUSC and their aims, there are elements that I feel could have been dealt with better too.

 

It just irritates me that some are so snidey about it and eager to mock from the anonymous safety of an internet forum.

 

See I'd say it's no different to any of the following

 

Baggio anonymously mocking NE5

 

NE5 anonymously calling Mick "Thick Mick"

 

Ronaldo hiding behind the forum & forever calling Steven Taylor shite

 

fading star hiding behind a user name calling Ashley

 

Wullie posting on here telling us Duff is a cunt

 

If they're people's opinions they're entitled to them.  Criticising people for posting them anonymously on an internet forum seems rather daft.

 

I'll be honest, I'm not that arsed about joining a supporters club, but if I saw one whose sentiments & views echoed mine, I'd certainly consider it.

 

At present NUSC are no where near being that, consequently I'm not joining them & they certainly won't be missing my contribution.