The England Thread

[Joe_F]

Did Welbeck actually do anything than walk around watching the back 8 defend.

 

Aye he deftly chipped the bar when clean through.

[Tooj]

The other thing I hate is apart from the lack of composure and technique in terms of keeping the ball, but the total lack of flair players we produce. The closest we have to flair players are some of the wide players but most are just predictable speed merchants. Massively disappointed with Young in this tournament, has looked absolutely abysmal at international level.

 

There's tiny nations like Eastern European countries that manage to produce skillful, technical players. Even if they don't have the depth or quality we do they at least produce the odd footballer you'd PAY to watch. Our players are just so fucking dull man. 

 

We like to coach it out of them for some reason.

[Anderson]

Off topic, what song did BBC play at the end?

 

[Disco]

The other thing I hate is apart from the lack of composure and technique in terms of keeping the ball, but the total lack of flair players we produce. The closest we have to flair players are some of the wide players but most are just predictable speed merchants. Massively disappointed with Young in this tournament, has looked absolutely abysmal at international level.

 

There's tiny nations like Eastern European countries that manage to produce skillful, technical players. Even if they don't have the depth or quality we do they at least produce the odd footballer you'd PAY to watch. Our players are just so fucking dull man. 

 

We like to coach it out of them for some reason.

 

Flair players = lazy players.

[ohmelads]

Thing Hodgson and England made the most of an extremely messy buildup to the tournament. Whatever people say about Lampard, and a lot of bollocks has been said down the years by tabloid journos, he's a massive danger in the right areas, he can play people in and his presence was missed. Gerrard did his best but we needed someone else in midfield, a cool head capable of a defence splitting pass, switching the play quickly or striking from distance and Lampard ticks those boxes. Parker is a pretty limited player but he does what he's told and gives his all. It typified England's performance here and throughout the tournament - disciplined but lacking skill or flair.

 

Hodgson will come out of it with credit and he deserves to. Looking at the England squad we had to play the way we did, we're in a period of transition with a weaker generation of players than the previous one and injuries throughout the team. We were a penalty shootout away from the semis.

 

I think the Germans have been overhyped this time around and struggled against Portugal but they will have a major advantage with 2 days' extra rest, not to mention the extra time the Italians played. Credit to Italy, the better team went through. At least England leave with their heads held high and have something to build upon for 2014. By then, new players will come through and we should be able to attack it with a stronger squad.

[Guest neesy111]

 

It's not about the league is it? It's about Eng players getting more games and taking more responsability. However it's dressed up there aren't enough Eng players coming through to make a difference (never mind quality one's).

 

England has generally underperformed at football tournaments, even when we had virtually no foreign players over here, good excuse though.

 

There's no excuses left.  The money is there, youth facilities etc.

 

It's down to how kids play football when they start the game and develop for the 3-5 years after that.  That is the only way we'll sort it out, also I think the government needs to do something to get P.E. to be a bigger Hartley of education not just for sports but for fitness, health etc.

[S.S.R.]

Off topic, what song did BBC play at the end?

 

 

Oh look, a sedate version of a famous tune, with a breathy female vocal - you never ever hear those...

[Wullie]

I don't think the number of foreign players makes a heap of difference btw. The only thing it does is cover these players weaknesses every week and allow them to build up their reputations.

 

If the players were being developed right they'd make it regardless of how many foreign players there are.

 

It does if young English players can't get near PL club youth schemes because they're full of foreign kids.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm no Little Englander, I understand why it is like this, I'm just saying you can't expect waves of talented English kids to come through if the best places for them to earn their trade are too busy poaching 15 year old French kids.

 

The money at the top of the English game also makes it more difficult for young talent to find its way to the top - only the biggest clubs can afford to buy real talent with little risk further down the ladder because of the English premium that clubs further down know they can and must hold out for - look at the prices for Walcott, Ox-C, Bale, Rodriguez, Delph, the kid Man Utd have just bought from Crewe.

 

Why would you risk top dollar on a kid with half a dozen League Two appearances when you can get Hatem Ben Arfa and Yohan Cabaye for less than £10m? That's why the number of foreigners is a problem, simply because they're so bloody cheap and £10m gets you a much better player in France or Germany than it does here. The price of that England team tonight was staggering - Johnson, Lescott, Cole, Milner, Parker, Henderson, Carroll, Rooney, Young, what's that, a combined £190-200m? Jesus wept. How many of them would get in Newcastle's team? Less than half.

[WarrenBartonCentrePartin]

FWIW the atmosphere in the Academy tonight was quality.  Canny gutted we didn't make the semi's purely cos it would have been something special on Thursday.

[Parky]

I don't think the number of foreign players makes a heap of difference btw. The only thing it does is cover these players weaknesses every week and allow them to build up their reputations.

 

If the players were being developed right they'd make it regardless of how many foreign players there are.

 

It does if young English players can't get near PL club youth schemes because they're full of foreign kids.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm no Little Englander, I understand why it is like this, I'm just saying you can't expect waves of talented English kids to come through if the best places for them to earn their trade are too busy poaching 15 year old French kids.

 

The money at the top of the English game also makes it more difficult for young talent to find its way to the top - only the biggest clubs can afford to buy real talent with little risk further down the ladder because of the English premium that clubs further down know they can and must hold out for - look at the prices for Walcott, Ox-C, Bale, Rodriguez, Delph, the kid Man Utd have just bought from Crewe.

 

Why would you risk top dollar on a kid with half a dozen League Two appearances when you can get Hatem Ben Arfa and Yohan Cabaye for less than £10m? That's why the number of foreigners is a problem, simply because they're so bloody cheap and £10m gets you a much better player in France or Germany than it does here. The price of that England team tonight was staggering - Johnson, Lescott, Cole, Milner, Parker, Henderson, Carroll, Rooney, Young, what's that, a combined £190-200m? Jesus wept. How many of them would get in Newcastle's team? Less than half.

 

Totally agree.

 

Furthermore when and if they do break into a PL side they have to make an immediate impact as they are in a totally synthetic competition for a place againt players from all over the world.

[Mick]

We've just had one of our best finishes in this competition, we've bettered it twice and the last time we bettered it on foreign soil was probably before most people on here were born.  The number of foreign players in the league isn't to blame, a lack of English quality is and that's why we have so many foreign players at our clubs.

[Guest neesy111]

FWIW the atmosphere in the Academy tonight was quality.  Canny gutted we didn't make the semi's purely cos it would have been something special on Thursday.

 

Guess the drink turned it into a decent atmosphere as the football wouldn't have done.

[Tiresias]

A decade of neglect of our youth systems is to blame not foreign players here, more technical creative foreign players should surely only benefit english players training and playing along side them.

[WarrenBartonCentrePartin]

FWIW the atmosphere in the Academy tonight was quality.  Canny gutted we didn't make the semi's purely cos it would have been something special on Thursday.

 

Guess the drink turned it into a decent atmosphere as the football wouldn't have done.

 

people were probably out on the piss all day, but £2 a pint (Carlsberg like) helped a lot.

[Joe_F]

Thing Hodgson and England made the most of an extremely messy buildup to the tournament. Whatever people say about Lampard, and a lot of bollocks has been said down the years by tabloid journos, he's a massive danger in the right areas, he can play people in and his presence was missed. Gerrard did his best but we needed someone else in midfield, a cool head capable of a defence splitting pass, switching the play quickly or striking from distance and Lampard ticks those boxes. Parker is a pretty limited player but he does what he's told and gives his all. It typified England's performance here and throughout the tournament - disciplined but lacking skill or flair.

 

Hodgson will come out of it with credit and he deserves to. Looking at the England squad we had to play the way we did, we're in a period of transition with a weaker generation of players than the previous one and injuries throughout the team. We were a penalty shootout away from the semis.

 

I think the Germans have been overhyped this time around and struggled against Portugal but they will have a major advantage with 2 days' extra rest, not to mention the extra time the Italians played. Credit to Italy, the better team went through. At least England leave with their heads held high and have something to build upon for 2014. By then, new players will come through and we should be able to attack it with a stronger squad.

 

We've had just the same type of displays at previous tournaments when Lampard was in the side playing at his supposed peak. It's complete bollocks to think he'd have made any difference now when he's nowhere near the player he was.

 

[Parky]

60% of PL players can't play for England. It's about 45% in Germany and Italy and 35% for Holland and Spain. 30% for France.

[ohmelads]

I sit somewhere in the middle but agree more with Mick. I think there's some truth that young English players don't get a chance quite as early as they would but at the same time if we had a young English version of Iniesta, Pirlo, Messi or Ronaldo sitting in Newcastle's reserves they'd get a run in our team sooner or later!

 

Carroll, Taylor and Shola all got their chance, Sammy Ameobi is getting a chance too and so is Ferguson. Hell even Ramage and Huntington got games. If we thought Forster was better than Krul he'd be in the team week in week out. Fact is this generation of England players aren't so good, that's why teams like Newcastle turn abroad for young players like Vuckic and Krul. We're trying to blood our local youngsters where we can but generally they're not good enough.

[Parky]

I sit somewhere in the middle but agree more with Mick. I think there's some truth that young English players don't get a chance quite as early as they would but at the same time if we had a young English version of Iniesta, Pirlo, Messi or Ronaldo sitting in Newcastle's reserves they'd get a run in our team sooner or later!

 

Carroll, Taylor and Shola all got their chance, Sammy Ameobi is getting a chance too and so is Ferguson. Hell even Ramage and Huntington got games. If we thought Forster was better than Krul he'd be in the team week in week out. Fact is this generation of England players aren't so good, that's why teams like Newcastle turn abroad for young players like Vuckic and Krul.

 

Clubs that have put the breaks on spend of late like Spurs and Arsenal are developing more Eng players it's a fact.

 

[ohmelads]

Thing Hodgson and England made the most of an extremely messy buildup to the tournament. Whatever people say about Lampard, and a lot of bollocks has been said down the years by tabloid journos, he's a massive danger in the right areas, he can play people in and his presence was missed. Gerrard did his best but we needed someone else in midfield, a cool head capable of a defence splitting pass, switching the play quickly or striking from distance and Lampard ticks those boxes. Parker is a pretty limited player but he does what he's told and gives his all. It typified England's performance here and throughout the tournament - disciplined but lacking skill or flair.

 

Hodgson will come out of it with credit and he deserves to. Looking at the England squad we had to play the way we did, we're in a period of transition with a weaker generation of players than the previous one and injuries throughout the team. We were a penalty shootout away from the semis.

 

I think the Germans have been overhyped this time around and struggled against Portugal but they will have a major advantage with 2 days' extra rest, not to mention the extra time the Italians played. Credit to Italy, the better team went through. At least England leave with their heads held high and have something to build upon for 2014. By then, new players will come through and we should be able to attack it with a stronger squad.

 

We've had just the same type of displays at previous tournaments when Lampard was in the side playing at his supposed peak. It's complete bollocks to think he'd have made any difference now when he's nowhere near the player he was.

 

 

Don't think he'd have made much difference because we were outplayed across the field. But we lacked any composure in midfield which was actually my point.

[Parky]

Thing Hodgson and England made the most of an extremely messy buildup to the tournament. Whatever people say about Lampard, and a lot of bollocks has been said down the years by tabloid journos, he's a massive danger in the right areas, he can play people in and his presence was missed. Gerrard did his best but we needed someone else in midfield, a cool head capable of a defence splitting pass, switching the play quickly or striking from distance and Lampard ticks those boxes. Parker is a pretty limited player but he does what he's told and gives his all. It typified England's performance here and throughout the tournament - disciplined but lacking skill or flair.

 

Hodgson will come out of it with credit and he deserves to. Looking at the England squad we had to play the way we did, we're in a period of transition with a weaker generation of players than the previous one and injuries throughout the team. We were a penalty shootout away from the semis.

 

I think the Germans have been overhyped this time around and struggled against Portugal but they will have a major advantage with 2 days' extra rest, not to mention the extra time the Italians played. Credit to Italy, the better team went through. At least England leave with their heads held high and have something to build upon for 2014. By then, new players will come through and we should be able to attack it with a stronger squad.

 

We've had just the same type of displays at previous tournaments when Lampard was in the side playing at his supposed peak. It's complete bollocks to think he'd have made any difference now when he's nowhere near the player he was.

 

 

Don't think he'd have made much difference because we were outplayed across the field. But we lacked any composure in midfield which was actually my point.

 

Wilshire and Cleverly will go onto play for Eng only if their respective clubs stick with their development and don't bring expensive imports in over their heads.

[ohmelads]

I sit somewhere in the middle but agree more with Mick. I think there's some truth that young English players don't get a chance quite as early as they would but at the same time if we had a young English version of Iniesta, Pirlo, Messi or Ronaldo sitting in Newcastle's reserves they'd get a run in our team sooner or later!

 

Carroll, Taylor and Shola all got their chance, Sammy Ameobi is getting a chance too and so is Ferguson. Hell even Ramage and Huntington got games. If we thought Forster was better than Krul he'd be in the team week in week out. Fact is this generation of England players aren't so good, that's why teams like Newcastle turn abroad for young players like Vuckic and Krul.

 

Clubs that have put the breaks on spend of late like Spurs and Arsenal are developing more Eng players it's a fact.

 

 

Spurs have put the breaks on spending?

 

I haven't seen the figures but in recent years I'd say they've spent more than all but a few teams.

 

I wonder if that is coincidence or perhaps due to the new rules coming in regarding homegrown players. I do think those rules will help a bit but the sad truth is we are not producing players good enough to challenge these foreigners for a place in the team. It's not that they don't get a chance to improve but that they're not good enough. We could have given Ramage or Huntington a thousand games but they'd never have been as good as Coloccini or Enrique. So to use Newcastle as an example our English kids just weren't talented enough so we got the chequebook out and scouted abroad.

 

I do take the point our youngsters need more gametime but they might be better off getting that gametime in the Championship, proving their ability and then a Prem team will take the punt. Plenty have gone that route.

[Parky]

I sit somewhere in the middle but agree more with Mick. I think there's some truth that young English players don't get a chance quite as early as they would but at the same time if we had a young English version of Iniesta, Pirlo, Messi or Ronaldo sitting in Newcastle's reserves they'd get a run in our team sooner or later!

 

Carroll, Taylor and Shola all got their chance, Sammy Ameobi is getting a chance too and so is Ferguson. Hell even Ramage and Huntington got games. If we thought Forster was better than Krul he'd be in the team week in week out. Fact is this generation of England players aren't so good, that's why teams like Newcastle turn abroad for young players like Vuckic and Krul.

 

Clubs that have put the breaks on spend of late like Spurs and Arsenal are developing more Eng players it's a fact.

 

 

Spurs have put the breaks on spending?

 

I haven't seen the figures but in recent years I'd say they've spent more than all but a few teams.

 

Adebayor is on loan and Modric is being sold. Kyle Walker came through as has Rose cause they haven't been instant cash heavy purchases in defence. Same with Huddlestone and Livermore.

[ponsaelius]

Spurs have spent more in recent years than they ever have.

[Cajun]

I sit somewhere in the middle but agree more with Mick. I think there's some truth that young English players don't get a chance quite as early as they would but at the same time if we had a young English version of Iniesta, Pirlo, Messi or Ronaldo sitting in Newcastle's reserves they'd get a run in our team sooner or later!

 

Carroll, Taylor and Shola all got their chance, Sammy Ameobi is getting a chance too and so is Ferguson. Hell even Ramage and Huntington got games. If we thought Forster was better than Krul he'd be in the team week in week out. Fact is this generation of England players aren't so good, that's why teams like Newcastle turn abroad for young players like Vuckic and Krul.

 

Clubs that have put the breaks on spend of late like Spurs and Arsenal are developing more Eng players it's a fact.

 

 

Spurs have put the breaks on spending?

 

I haven't seen the figures but in recent years I'd say they've spent more than all but a few teams.

 

I wonder if that is coincidence or perhaps due to the new rules coming in regarding homegrown players. I do think those rules will help a bit but the sad truth is we are not producing players good enough to challenge these foreigners for a place in the team. It's not that they don't get a chance to improve but that they're not good enough. We could have given Ramage or Huntington a thousand games but they'd never have been as good as Coloccini or Enrique. So to use Newcastle as an example our English kids just weren't talented enough so we got the chequebook out and scouted abroad.

 

I do take the point our youngsters need more gametime but they might be better off getting that gametime in the Championship, proving their ability and then a Prem team will take the punt. Plenty have gone that route.

 

Haven't Arsenal just signed Giroud and Podolski too?

[ohmelads]

I sit somewhere in the middle but agree more with Mick. I think there's some truth that young English players don't get a chance quite as early as they would but at the same time if we had a young English version of Iniesta, Pirlo, Messi or Ronaldo sitting in Newcastle's reserves they'd get a run in our team sooner or later!

 

Carroll, Taylor and Shola all got their chance, Sammy Ameobi is getting a chance too and so is Ferguson. Hell even Ramage and Huntington got games. If we thought Forster was better than Krul he'd be in the team week in week out. Fact is this generation of England players aren't so good, that's why teams like Newcastle turn abroad for young players like Vuckic and Krul.

 

Clubs that have put the breaks on spend of late like Spurs and Arsenal are developing more Eng players it's a fact.

 

 

Spurs have put the breaks on spending?

 

I haven't seen the figures but in recent years I'd say they've spent more than all but a few teams.

 

Adebayor is on loan and Modric is being sold. Kyle Walker came through as has Rose cause they haven't been instant cash heavy purchases in defence.

 

Modric cost a bomb and his and Van der Vaart's wages would have been massive, not to mention Adebayor's. Their bench at times last season was full of expensive international talent. As Sewelly said their spending has been higher than ever. Yet still Walker broke through.