Mole_Toonfan Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I think Caulker might be one to pencil in for the future. Especially when he joins us Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 The real reason why England are shit can be traced all the way back to kids' football where fathers and coaches scream at defenders to get rid of it, instruct the midfielders to get stuck in and the forwards to chase down everything. You watch any game in England at a grassroots level be it between a bunch of 7 year olds or a bunch of hairy arsed old gadgies and the pattern is the same, hoof ball, long ball, hard tackling, lots of work ethic etc. and very little skill, individualism or ability. Even our own glamourised so-called best league in the world typifies or rewards this type of game, culture and indeed footballer. England have no chance and nor do our players. Attitudes have to change if we are to compete. The dad, the coach, the fans, we have to change our values and attitudes. We value work rate, tough tackling, getting stuck in and we spread this mentality like the plaugue right throughout our game all the way to those that matter most, the players, from our kids kicking a ball in the park to our heroes at St. James' Park. I was in Tunisia a few years back watching a game of street football between what seemed like about 20 kids, all of different sizes, ages and what have you. No coaches, no refs, no adults, just kids playing for the sheer fun of it and what I saw was a great deal of skill and flair among them all. Such a contrast to why your average kids' game here in England which is usually dominated not by individuals but by screaming parents, robotic coaches and stupid rules and regulations that state once a kid gets to say 10, and is in a team, they have to play on huge pitches. On the terraces we also need to change of our attitude. I fucking hate it when fans at SJP get impatient and start moaning because we are attempting to play a bit of keep ball. Get it forward man etc. Keeping the ball is the be all and end all. Do that and you will win games and trophies as the masters such as Spain and Brazil for example showcase in every match and every tournament almost. It is no coincidence either that when England won their first and last tournament and generally looked like world beaters, those players developed their skills and abilities not in academies and under coaches but out there on the streets and back alley ways. When I was into coaching I attended a UEFA seminar and the majority of academy coaches working at Premier League clubs were pretty much in tune with one another when it came to the kind of player they wanted to develop or hoped they could find and that player was an athlete. Is Pirlo an athlete? Inesta? Don't get me wrong, the game needs athletes, Ronaldo is an exceptional athlete for example, but he hasn't made it to the very top because he's quick and strong, but because he is skilful, full of ability, individualism and flair. The very ingredients that our own academies, clubs, coaches, parents, fans etc. valuein our game from kids' footy all the way to the Premier League less than pace, power, physical attributes and work . In short an Ashley Young or a Danny Wellbeck or a Scott Parker or James Milner. They are not bad players of course but Young is no Chris Waddle, Wellbeck is no Shearer, Parker is no Robson and Milner is no Beardsley. We used to produce those players like clockwork but since the advent of the Premier League and academies, coaching etc. we are getting fewere footballers and more athletes. During my coaching my team once went a season unbeaten, I did zero coaching, I just let them play and express themselves. The battles I had with parents man. One didn't want his son playing in goal but his son wanted to so I said OK, have a go, he was crap like but had lots of fun. He's a goalscorer man was the reply from the angry father. The lad could score goals to be fair but who was I to deny a kid the chance to basically express himself as an individual or even have some fun. But then I didn't give a fuck about winning games or trophies. Leave that shit to adults and the professionals. I guarantee this debate will continue forevere because things will never change. We are basically relying on a golden generation of players, the right manager and whoever we play to be considerably shit or average for us to win a tournament, that and no extra time and penalties. Aye right... get with the times England or continue to look like utter fools. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steggy Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Absurd that you think anybodies going to read that. No chance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tisd09 Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 This maybe a Giggs, but we need more and more English players playing in the Premiership week in week out. I know the FA have rules of certain amount of home grown talent but clubs are using the homegrown as a loopole. Fabregas for example is considered homegrown. So much pressure on clubs to produce results that buying a £2 million pound bloke from Poland is seen as less riskier than picking Joe Bloggs from your youth team. The English premium on home transfers is scandoulous. Why the fuck is someone like Rodriguez (who I haven't seen by the way) cost £7 million when we bought a player who scored goals in Ligue 1 and the German League costs a little more. Connor Wickham and this is not just a dig at the Mackems, why the hell is he costing nearly £10 million. Andy Carroll is a prime example, had a great end to our Championship season, a great start in the Premiership and becomes one of the most expensive players in the world. I am not in the camp that Carroll is shite, he clearly is not but be he is not worth anywhere near £35 million. Addressing these excessive fees is a big factor in improving England. Jordan Rhodes has bags of potential but he's going to cost between £6-10 million, making good sides look elsewhere, he misses out on better coaching and playing with better players which could take him to the next level. Players used to move up through the divisions, can't see why that can't happen now. Someone like Gary Monk and Ashley Williams are decent examples. They played in the 3rd tier of English football, decent players at that level, teams would not take a risk on them, but both, whilst not being amazing have look solid in the Premiership, so these plays at lower levels can make it, but their chances are limited. Holt is another example but he only got his chance in the Prem because his club moved up through the divisions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRC Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Absurd that you think anybodies going to read that. No chance. I read it, thought he made a decent point. Even if some of it was probably exaggerated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrettNUFC Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 The real reason why England are s*** can be traced all the way back to kids' football where fathers and coaches scream at defenders to get rid of it, instruct the midfielders to get stuck in and the forwards to chase down everything. You watch any game in England at a grassroots level be it between a bunch of 7 year olds or a bunch of hairy arsed old gadgies and the pattern is the same, hoof ball, long ball, hard tackling, lots of work ethic etc. and very little skill, individualism or ability. Even our own glamourised so-called best league in the world typifies or rewards this type of game, culture and indeed footballer. England have no chance and nor do our players. Attitudes have to change if we are to compete. The dad, the coach, the fans, we have to change our values and attitudes. We value work rate, tough tackling, getting stuck in and we spread this mentality like the plaugue right throughout our game all the way to those that matter most, the players, from our kids kicking a ball in the park to our heroes at St. James' Park. I was in Tunisia a few years back watching a game of street football between what seemed like about 20 kids, all of different sizes, ages and what have you. No coaches, no refs, no adults, just kids playing for the sheer fun of it and what I saw was a great deal of skill and flair among them all. Such a contrast to why your average kids' game here in England which is usually dominated not by individuals but by screaming parents, robotic coaches and stupid rules and regulations that state once a kid gets to say 10, and is in a team, they have to play on huge pitches. On the terraces we also need to change of our attitude. I f***ing hate it when fans at SJP get impatient and start moaning because we are attempting to play a bit of keep ball. Get it forward man etc. Keeping the ball is the be all and end all. Do that and you will win games and trophies as the masters such as Spain and Brazil for example showcase in every match and every tournament almost. It is no coincidence either that when England won their first and last tournament and generally looked like world beaters, those players developed their skills and abilities not in academies and under coaches but out there on the streets and back alley ways. When I was into coaching I attended a UEFA seminar and the majority of academy coaches working at Premier League clubs were pretty much in tune with one another when it came to the kind of player they wanted to develop or hoped they could find and that player was an athlete. Is Pirlo an athlete? Inesta? Don't get me wrong, the game needs athletes, Ronaldo is an exceptional athlete for example, but he hasn't made it to the very top because he's quick and strong, but because he is skilful, full of ability, individualism and flair. The very ingredients that our own academies, clubs, coaches, parents, fans etc. valuein our game from kids' footy all the way to the Premier League less than pace, power, physical attributes and work . In short an Ashley Young or a Danny Wellbeck or a Scott Parker or James Milner. They are not bad players of course but Young is no Chris Waddle, Wellbeck is no Shearer, Parker is no Robson and Milner is no Beardsley. We used to produce those players like clockwork but since the advent of the Premier League and academies, coaching etc. we are getting fewere footballers and more athletes. During my coaching my team once went a season unbeaten, I did zero coaching, I just let them play and express themselves. The battles I had with parents man. One didn't want his son playing in goal but his son wanted to so I said OK, have a go, he was crap like but had lots of fun. He's a goalscorer man was the reply from the angry father. The lad could score goals to be fair but who was I to deny a kid the chance to basically express himself as an individual or even have some fun. But then I didn't give a f*** about winning games or trophies. Leave that s*** to adults and the professionals. I guarantee this debate will continue forevere because things will never change. We are basically relying on a golden generation of players, the right manager and whoever we play to be considerably s*** or average for us to win a tournament, that and no extra time and penalties. Aye right... get with the times England or continue to look like utter fools. Did you resign after your unbeaten season? Or did the unbeaten sequence come to an abrubt end the following season? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/jun/25/euro-2012-statistics-damn-england?CMP=twt_gu 30 Cristiano Ronaldo has had more shots in his first four games at Euro 2012 than the entire England squad (29) had at the tournament 20 Italy had more shots on target in their quarter-final match than England had in total in their four matches in Ukraine 88 England conceded more than twice as many shots to France, Sweden, Ukraine and Italy than they had against those teams 39 England had on average 39% of the possession in their four games, their lowest figure at a tournament since Euro 1980 29 Ashley Young and James Milner put in 29 crosses in the four games. Only three reached an England team-mate 300 England averaged 300 passes per match. The four semi-finalists have averaged 479 15 England completed only 15 passes in the 15 minutes of the second period of extra-time against Italy 18 England's most successful passing combination against Italy was the goalkeeper Joe Hart to the substitute striker Andy Carroll 115 Andrea Pirlo had more passes against England than England's four starting midfielders had against Italy 18 Mesut Ozil has created 18 chances in Germany's four games. Steven Gerrard, England's most prolific chance creator, has made six 102 England ran on average 102km in their four matches. Italy ran 7.5km further on average per match 86 England have had the most tackles in the tournament, with Steven Gerrard's 18 the most of any player 29 England have blocked the most shots at Euro 2012, 17 more than Italy, 19 more than Germany, 21 more than Portugal and 24 more than Spain 93 The amount of erections this journalist got during the Italy game thinking about writing the article Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 The real reason why England are s*** can be traced all the way back to kids' football where fathers and coaches scream at defenders to get rid of it, instruct the midfielders to get stuck in and the forwards to chase down everything. You watch any game in England at a grassroots level be it between a bunch of 7 year olds or a bunch of hairy arsed old gadgies and the pattern is the same, hoof ball, long ball, hard tackling, lots of work ethic etc. and very little skill, individualism or ability. Even our own glamourised so-called best league in the world typifies or rewards this type of game, culture and indeed footballer. England have no chance and nor do our players. Attitudes have to change if we are to compete. The dad, the coach, the fans, we have to change our values and attitudes. We value work rate, tough tackling, getting stuck in and we spread this mentality like the plaugue right throughout our game all the way to those that matter most, the players, from our kids kicking a ball in the park to our heroes at St. James' Park. I was in Tunisia a few years back watching a game of street football between what seemed like about 20 kids, all of different sizes, ages and what have you. No coaches, no refs, no adults, just kids playing for the sheer fun of it and what I saw was a great deal of skill and flair among them all. Such a contrast to why your average kids' game here in England which is usually dominated not by individuals but by screaming parents, robotic coaches and stupid rules and regulations that state once a kid gets to say 10, and is in a team, they have to play on huge pitches. On the terraces we also need to change of our attitude. I f***ing hate it when fans at SJP get impatient and start moaning because we are attempting to play a bit of keep ball. Get it forward man etc. Keeping the ball is the be all and end all. Do that and you will win games and trophies as the masters such as Spain and Brazil for example showcase in every match and every tournament almost. It is no coincidence either that when England won their first and last tournament and generally looked like world beaters, those players developed their skills and abilities not in academies and under coaches but out there on the streets and back alley ways. When I was into coaching I attended a UEFA seminar and the majority of academy coaches working at Premier League clubs were pretty much in tune with one another when it came to the kind of player they wanted to develop or hoped they could find and that player was an athlete. Is Pirlo an athlete? Inesta? Don't get me wrong, the game needs athletes, Ronaldo is an exceptional athlete for example, but he hasn't made it to the very top because he's quick and strong, but because he is skilful, full of ability, individualism and flair. The very ingredients that our own academies, clubs, coaches, parents, fans etc. valuein our game from kids' footy all the way to the Premier League less than pace, power, physical attributes and work . In short an Ashley Young or a Danny Wellbeck or a Scott Parker or James Milner. They are not bad players of course but Young is no Chris Waddle, Wellbeck is no Shearer, Parker is no Robson and Milner is no Beardsley. We used to produce those players like clockwork but since the advent of the Premier League and academies, coaching etc. we are getting fewere footballers and more athletes. During my coaching my team once went a season unbeaten, I did zero coaching, I just let them play and express themselves. The battles I had with parents man. One didn't want his son playing in goal but his son wanted to so I said OK, have a go, he was crap like but had lots of fun. He's a goalscorer man was the reply from the angry father. The lad could score goals to be fair but who was I to deny a kid the chance to basically express himself as an individual or even have some fun. But then I didn't give a f*** about winning games or trophies. Leave that s*** to adults and the professionals. I guarantee this debate will continue forevere because things will never change. We are basically relying on a golden generation of players, the right manager and whoever we play to be considerably s*** or average for us to win a tournament, that and no extra time and penalties. Aye right... get with the times England or continue to look like utter fools. Did you resign after your unbeaten season? Or did the unbeaten sequence come to an abrubt end the following season? I moved on, a new coach took over, similar philosophies but winning is important, doing well by all accounts. I simply had a choice of coaching or building my business. When I'm rich and retired, I'll get back into coaching or rather grassroots footballl. I would love to create a club where kids can just come to and play, no pressure, no having to play in a position that adult picks for them, they can just come in and have a game of footy with other kids who want to just have a kick about. When I was a kid I would knock on other kids' doors asking if they wanted a kick-about, gates, singles, doubles, whatever, next thing you knew we'd be playing 20 a side games on lop sided fields and it was the best ever, no coaches, no adults, just kids playing footy for fun, expressing themselves. Every saturday or sunday thousands of kids all over the country go home crying because they didn't get a game. When I was coaching I used to say to the other coach, why not let your reserves play my reserves on an empty picth. Some did but a few didn't in case of injuries etc. Injuries man. Its not the fucking Champions League. Let them play! The game's greatest coach is the game itself. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I'd agree with HTT in that there seems to be something about our fundamental attitude to the game, that isn't conducive to producing technically adept players in the long term. After all, the skill gap between British and Continental players has been there for decades. It predates the Premiership and modern quota systems for developing young players. The most astute thing I've heard on this subject came from Arsene Wenger. He once said that for the English player, football is war, whereas for the continental player, football is an art form. It comes out partly in the obsession, highlighted by HTT, for getting young children to play competitve 11 a side football on large pitches far too soon. They don't develop their skills that way. I think it also comes out in our association of skill with individualism rather than teamwork. It was very noticeable last night that the England team were playing as isolated individuals, or at best only in twos and threes, whereas the Italians were knocking the ball around as a team with far more confidence. Their ability to interchange passes and have faith in one another to receive the ball at pace was so superior to our players. I think a by-product of the 'warrior' mentality that Wenger mentions is our obsession with individuals producing moments on their own to unlock a defence - particularly wide players. Having said that, I think matters are improving. We were a bit unlucky with injuries, because Wilshere, Lampard and Barry would have been good additions to a squad which relied solely on Gerrard for invention in the midfield. I'm a bit worried about Hodgson's apparent commitment to 4-4-2 though. We end up getting outnumbered in midfield and relying too much on the wide players. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tisd09 Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 The real reason why England are s*** can be traced all the way back to kids' football where fathers and coaches scream at defenders to get rid of it, instruct the midfielders to get stuck in and the forwards to chase down everything. You watch any game in England at a grassroots level be it between a bunch of 7 year olds or a bunch of hairy arsed old gadgies and the pattern is the same, hoof ball, long ball, hard tackling, lots of work ethic etc. and very little skill, individualism or ability. Even our own glamourised so-called best league in the world typifies or rewards this type of game, culture and indeed footballer. England have no chance and nor do our players. Attitudes have to change if we are to compete. The dad, the coach, the fans, we have to change our values and attitudes. We value work rate, tough tackling, getting stuck in and we spread this mentality like the plaugue right throughout our game all the way to those that matter most, the players, from our kids kicking a ball in the park to our heroes at St. James' Park. I was in Tunisia a few years back watching a game of street football between what seemed like about 20 kids, all of different sizes, ages and what have you. No coaches, no refs, no adults, just kids playing for the sheer fun of it and what I saw was a great deal of skill and flair among them all. Such a contrast to why your average kids' game here in England which is usually dominated not by individuals but by screaming parents, robotic coaches and stupid rules and regulations that state once a kid gets to say 10, and is in a team, they have to play on huge pitches. On the terraces we also need to change of our attitude. I f***ing hate it when fans at SJP get impatient and start moaning because we are attempting to play a bit of keep ball. Get it forward man etc. Keeping the ball is the be all and end all. Do that and you will win games and trophies as the masters such as Spain and Brazil for example showcase in every match and every tournament almost. It is no coincidence either that when England won their first and last tournament and generally looked like world beaters, those players developed their skills and abilities not in academies and under coaches but out there on the streets and back alley ways. When I was into coaching I attended a UEFA seminar and the majority of academy coaches working at Premier League clubs were pretty much in tune with one another when it came to the kind of player they wanted to develop or hoped they could find and that player was an athlete. Is Pirlo an athlete? Inesta? Don't get me wrong, the game needs athletes, Ronaldo is an exceptional athlete for example, but he hasn't made it to the very top because he's quick and strong, but because he is skilful, full of ability, individualism and flair. The very ingredients that our own academies, clubs, coaches, parents, fans etc. valuein our game from kids' footy all the way to the Premier League less than pace, power, physical attributes and work . In short an Ashley Young or a Danny Wellbeck or a Scott Parker or James Milner. They are not bad players of course but Young is no Chris Waddle, Wellbeck is no Shearer, Parker is no Robson and Milner is no Beardsley. We used to produce those players like clockwork but since the advent of the Premier League and academies, coaching etc. we are getting fewere footballers and more athletes. During my coaching my team once went a season unbeaten, I did zero coaching, I just let them play and express themselves. The battles I had with parents man. One didn't want his son playing in goal but his son wanted to so I said OK, have a go, he was crap like but had lots of fun. He's a goalscorer man was the reply from the angry father. The lad could score goals to be fair but who was I to deny a kid the chance to basically express himself as an individual or even have some fun. But then I didn't give a f*** about winning games or trophies. Leave that s*** to adults and the professionals. I guarantee this debate will continue forevere because things will never change. We are basically relying on a golden generation of players, the right manager and whoever we play to be considerably s*** or average for us to win a tournament, that and no extra time and penalties. Aye right... get with the times England or continue to look like utter fools. Part of me can't wait for my kid to be old enough to play football but another part of me is dreading it for peoples attitudes. I'm not sure if I can handle the aggressive parents, or coaches who want to win at any cost. Luckily the club I play for have a good kids set up, the training looks fun and engaging, not see what the parents are like when a game takes place mind. I took my little one up the park a few weeks ago, as soon as I tried to get him to do something like just pass it back and forth with me and pass in the correct way he hated it, yet give him the ball and let him run around kicking the ball and he was having a whale of a time. Then I stopped and thought am I here for Alex or here for myself, I wanted to teach him, he wanted fun. He is 4 FFS so i just let him kick it around, he laughed his little ass off. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeyt Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 This been posted? http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4393865/England-fan-flashes-willy-during-Euro-2012-shootout-in-bid-to-put-off-Italians-scoring-winner.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 The real reason why England are s*** can be traced all the way back to kids' football where fathers and coaches scream at defenders to get rid of it, instruct the midfielders to get stuck in and the forwards to chase down everything. You watch any game in England at a grassroots level be it between a bunch of 7 year olds or a bunch of hairy arsed old gadgies and the pattern is the same, hoof ball, long ball, hard tackling, lots of work ethic etc. and very little skill, individualism or ability. Even our own glamourised so-called best league in the world typifies or rewards this type of game, culture and indeed footballer. England have no chance and nor do our players. Attitudes have to change if we are to compete. The dad, the coach, the fans, we have to change our values and attitudes. We value work rate, tough tackling, getting stuck in and we spread this mentality like the plaugue right throughout our game all the way to those that matter most, the players, from our kids kicking a ball in the park to our heroes at St. James' Park. I was in Tunisia a few years back watching a game of street football between what seemed like about 20 kids, all of different sizes, ages and what have you. No coaches, no refs, no adults, just kids playing for the sheer fun of it and what I saw was a great deal of skill and flair among them all. Such a contrast to why your average kids' game here in England which is usually dominated not by individuals but by screaming parents, robotic coaches and stupid rules and regulations that state once a kid gets to say 10, and is in a team, they have to play on huge pitches. On the terraces we also need to change of our attitude. I f***ing hate it when fans at SJP get impatient and start moaning because we are attempting to play a bit of keep ball. Get it forward man etc. Keeping the ball is the be all and end all. Do that and you will win games and trophies as the masters such as Spain and Brazil for example showcase in every match and every tournament almost. It is no coincidence either that when England won their first and last tournament and generally looked like world beaters, those players developed their skills and abilities not in academies and under coaches but out there on the streets and back alley ways. When I was into coaching I attended a UEFA seminar and the majority of academy coaches working at Premier League clubs were pretty much in tune with one another when it came to the kind of player they wanted to develop or hoped they could find and that player was an athlete. Is Pirlo an athlete? Inesta? Don't get me wrong, the game needs athletes, Ronaldo is an exceptional athlete for example, but he hasn't made it to the very top because he's quick and strong, but because he is skilful, full of ability, individualism and flair. The very ingredients that our own academies, clubs, coaches, parents, fans etc. valuein our game from kids' footy all the way to the Premier League less than pace, power, physical attributes and work . In short an Ashley Young or a Danny Wellbeck or a Scott Parker or James Milner. They are not bad players of course but Young is no Chris Waddle, Wellbeck is no Shearer, Parker is no Robson and Milner is no Beardsley. We used to produce those players like clockwork but since the advent of the Premier League and academies, coaching etc. we are getting fewere footballers and more athletes. During my coaching my team once went a season unbeaten, I did zero coaching, I just let them play and express themselves. The battles I had with parents man. One didn't want his son playing in goal but his son wanted to so I said OK, have a go, he was crap like but had lots of fun. He's a goalscorer man was the reply from the angry father. The lad could score goals to be fair but who was I to deny a kid the chance to basically express himself as an individual or even have some fun. But then I didn't give a f*** about winning games or trophies. Leave that s*** to adults and the professionals. I guarantee this debate will continue forevere because things will never change. We are basically relying on a golden generation of players, the right manager and whoever we play to be considerably s*** or average for us to win a tournament, that and no extra time and penalties. Aye right... get with the times England or continue to look like utter fools. Part of me can't wait for my kid to be old enough to play football but another part of me is dreading it for peoples attitudes. I'm not sure if I can handle the aggressive parents, or coaches who want to win at any cost. Luckily the club I play for have a good kids set up, the training looks fun and engaging, not see what the parents are like when a game takes place mind. I took my little one up the park a few weeks ago, as soon as I tried to get him to do something like just pass it back and forth with me and pass in the correct way he hated it, yet give him the ball and let him run around kicking the ball and he was having a whale of a time. Then I stopped and thought am I here for Alex or here for myself, I wanted to teach him, he wanted fun. He is 4 FFS so i just let him kick it around, he laughed his little ass off. My nephew was a great player, honestly, he could dribble for fun and beat anyone despite lacking pace. NUFC were watching him weekly. His coach would constantly scream at him for dribbling his way out of defence though. Not there, get rid, play it long etc. were constant throughout yet he had the ability to dribble his way all the way upfield and score which he did on a consistent basis. at 7 years old when he first started playing he joined a club and in 13 games or so scored 27 goals. He could do like 300 kick ups easily at that age and mastered all the tricks, the chop, the Cryuff/Zidane trick etc. I have a video of him outside of Kings Cross doing 360 + kick-ups at the age of 7 and doing all kinds of tricks. There was a crowd watching. Anyway because of his coach and the attitude of parents we took him out of his team to a new team. Big mistake though as the new team were all about excellence and everything being spot on which curtailed his individualism. Anyway he was going to school saying he was going to be a footballer and his schoolwork suffered. His dad put an end to the footy, he could play but no serious coaching etc which I was guilty of as I was coaching him every day and over coaching him. Now he's top of his class at school and a pretty good rugby/cricket player and doesn't even care about footy these days. Best advice, again, just let them play and don't take things too seriously. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tisd09 Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I agree especially at such a young age. Hopefully the new initiative that the FA have voted on will help grass routes. But still I think overpricing if Premier League/English League talent is a factor in a lack of oppourtunities for home grown players. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Messi, Xavi and Iniesta were all at the Barca academy being 'coached' at 11. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hughesy Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Messi, Xavi and Iniesta were all at the Barca academy being 'coached' at 11. Exactly - nothing wrong with coaching at any age. Has to be a balance struck. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I reckon Southgate will do a canny job btw. Seems to know his onions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deuce Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 The real reason why England are shit can be traced all the way back to kids' football where fathers and coaches scream at defenders to get rid of it, instruct the midfielders to get stuck in and the forwards to chase down everything. You watch any game in England at a grassroots level be it between a bunch of 7 year olds or a bunch of hairy arsed old gadgies and the pattern is the same, hoof ball, long ball, hard tackling, lots of work ethic etc. and very little skill, individualism or ability. Even our own glamourised so-called best league in the world typifies or rewards this type of game, culture and indeed footballer. England have no chance and nor do our players. Attitudes have to change if we are to compete. The dad, the coach, the fans, we have to change our values and attitudes. We value work rate, tough tackling, getting stuck in and we spread this mentality like the plaugue right throughout our game all the way to those that matter most, the players, from our kids kicking a ball in the park to our heroes at St. James' Park. I was in Tunisia a few years back watching a game of street football between what seemed like about 20 kids, all of different sizes, ages and what have you. No coaches, no refs, no adults, just kids playing for the sheer fun of it and what I saw was a great deal of skill and flair among them all. Such a contrast to why your average kids' game here in England which is usually dominated not by individuals but by screaming parents, robotic coaches and stupid rules and regulations that state once a kid gets to say 10, and is in a team, they have to play on huge pitches. On the terraces we also need to change of our attitude. I fucking hate it when fans at SJP get impatient and start moaning because we are attempting to play a bit of keep ball. Get it forward man etc. Keeping the ball is the be all and end all. Do that and you will win games and trophies as the masters such as Spain and Brazil for example showcase in every match and every tournament almost. It is no coincidence either that when England won their first and last tournament and generally looked like world beaters, those players developed their skills and abilities not in academies and under coaches but out there on the streets and back alley ways. When I was into coaching I attended a UEFA seminar and the majority of academy coaches working at Premier League clubs were pretty much in tune with one another when it came to the kind of player they wanted to develop or hoped they could find and that player was an athlete. Is Pirlo an athlete? Inesta? Don't get me wrong, the game needs athletes, Ronaldo is an exceptional athlete for example, but he hasn't made it to the very top because he's quick and strong, but because he is skilful, full of ability, individualism and flair. The very ingredients that our own academies, clubs, coaches, parents, fans etc. valuein our game from kids' footy all the way to the Premier League less than pace, power, physical attributes and work . In short an Ashley Young or a Danny Wellbeck or a Scott Parker or James Milner. They are not bad players of course but Young is no Chris Waddle, Wellbeck is no Shearer, Parker is no Robson and Milner is no Beardsley. We used to produce those players like clockwork but since the advent of the Premier League and academies, coaching etc. we are getting fewere footballers and more athletes. During my coaching my team once went a season unbeaten, I did zero coaching, I just let them play and express themselves. The battles I had with parents man. One didn't want his son playing in goal but his son wanted to so I said OK, have a go, he was crap like but had lots of fun. He's a goalscorer man was the reply from the angry father. The lad could score goals to be fair but who was I to deny a kid the chance to basically express himself as an individual or even have some fun. But then I didn't give a fuck about winning games or trophies. Leave that shit to adults and the professionals. I guarantee this debate will continue forevere because things will never change. We are basically relying on a golden generation of players, the right manager and whoever we play to be considerably shit or average for us to win a tournament, that and no extra time and penalties. Aye right... get with the times England or continue to look like utter fools. Replace 'England' with 'U.S.' and you'll basically get the same argument from most of us across the pond. We've relied too long on the English/Premiership model of producing superb athletes focused on nothing but winning. The biggest reason Klinsmann was brought over was to completely revamp the way the game is played from the grassroots level on up, focusing on technique and skill the same way he helped transform the German system. I'd say our national team plays much the same as the England squad, just with less skill and a bit more heart Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiresias Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 from what I've seen of US team there's more skill there :| Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deuce Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 from what I've seen of US team there's more skill there :| We can smack the shit out of Scotland alright but don't ask us for a dominant win over the mighty Antigua and Barbuda. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiresias Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 So pissed off at Gerrard saying he has no plans to relinquish the captain's armband, if he had any decency he would retire from international footy to save him being dragged out to the world cup in a wheelchair or whatever by then and take a position on the pitch that would be better filled by players who won't get knackered after 10 minutes Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEMTEX Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Not his responsibility to do so IMO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiresias Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Well that's fair in a way but saying outright he wants to be captain just seems a bit lacking in awareness of his age. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayson Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I think theres several players more worthy of your frustration than Gerrard saying he likes being captain Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiresias Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 there are, but doesn't make that not annoying Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Messi, Xavi and Iniesta were all at the Barca academy being 'coached' at 11. Exactly - nothing wrong with coaching at any age. Has to be a balance struck. I think they also spend a lot of time on schoolwork and helping to mould balanced and happy children too. Their graduates tend to be very modest and level-headed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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