Wullie Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 What gets me, if Woy was still at West Brom and they had just won a game, there is no way he'd make lots of changes for the next match, he'd keep a settled side, so why the fuck did he fuck with the side that beat San Marino by making so many changes?! I like Hodgson as a manager but he's just not suited to this role. We need a young dynamic manager who will drop the old guard and get a settled side going. We don't have the greatest of squads but we have decent talent, especially attacking talent, that needs selected, kept together and freed to express themselves. Someone like AVB actually. Milner should never get a game for England and nor should Gerrard whereas your Cole's, although clearly still needed, should be the back up to emerging talent like Baines. Wellbeck is a much better all-rounder than Defoe who is in his 30s now and is one dimensional. He too shouldn't start games, not ahead of exciting youngsters like Wellback, the future basically. With England, I despair I really do. If Welbeck's the future, we're fucked no matter who the manager is tbh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 What gets me, if Woy was still at West Brom and they had just won a game, there is no way he'd make lots of changes for the next match, he'd keep a settled side, so why the f*** did he f*** with the side that beat San Marino by making so many changes?! I like Hodgson as a manager but he's just not suited to this role. We need a young dynamic manager who will drop the old guard and get a settled side going. We don't have the greatest of squads but we have decent talent, especially attacking talent, that needs selected, kept together and freed to express themselves. Someone like AVB actually. Milner should never get a game for England and nor should Gerrard whereas your Cole's, although clearly still needed, should be the back up to emerging talent like Baines. Wellbeck is a much better all-rounder than Defoe who is in his 30s now and is one dimensional. He too shouldn't start games, not ahead of exciting youngsters like Wellback, the future basically. With England, I despair I really do. If Welbeck's the future, we're f***ed no matter who the manager is tbh. I don't know, I quite like him myself. Not a goalscorer of 20 plus goals a season but he causes problems, works the wide areas well, has pace, is good on the ball and generally has something about him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Decent player who is overrated because he's at Man Utd. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishmael Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Put it on, for ten minutes, while I was in the office. Decided to go back to my work. I drove back to work it was that bad... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Decent player who is overrated because he's at Man Utd. Is he overrated? I haven't heard of any hype about him myself. In many ways, given he's young, English and plays for Man Utd, there is perhaps a lack of hype about him. Mind his team-mate Cleverly is getting the media hype already and he's nothing but an above average player at the moment, nice and tidy and a decent prospect but nowt special. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Wullie thought it was hilarious when he was starting for Scum. He'll follow it through, as he always does. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEMTEX Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 He's showed absolutely nowt for me. He looks like your typical mediocre striker, destined for Sunderland/Norwich/QPR/Blackburn et al. He'd probably still get in my England squad like. If you're good enough for 12th place in the PL, you're good enough for England. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
womblemaster Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 neither welbeck or cleverly played well today. probably out partying in redlight district half the night... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Have to say I've not seen many worse performances in an England shirt than Carrick's today... absolutely shocking. I felt bringing Carroll on would've been more beneficial than Welbeck, at least we'd have had a target and maybe the ball would have stuck , we went through a horrid 10-15 minute period with just Defoe up front where the ball constantly came back to us. Felt Lescott and Jagielka looked solid in the main, and I also felt contrary to most others that Milner had a fair game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 What gets me, if Woy was still at West Brom and they had just won a game, there is no way he'd make lots of changes for the next match, he'd keep a settled side, so why the f*** did he f*** with the side that beat San Marino by making so many changes?! I like Hodgson as a manager but he's just not suited to this role. We need a young dynamic manager who will drop the old guard and get a settled side going. We don't have the greatest of squads but we have decent talent, especially attacking talent, that needs selected, kept together and freed to express themselves. Someone like AVB actually. Milner should never get a game for England and nor should Gerrard whereas your Cole's, although clearly still needed, should be the back up to emerging talent like Baines. Wellbeck is a much better all-rounder than Defoe who is in his 30s now and is one dimensional. He too shouldn't start games, not ahead of exciting youngsters like Wellback, the future basically. With England, I despair I really do. Our reserves could probably beat Torquay in a League Cup match. Should we then start them against a Premier League side in the next match. Poland and San Marino are not in any way congruent and the results against them don''t have much correlation If you want to put in youth just for the sake of it, then I understand, but imo Cole is better than Baines and Defoe is better than Welbeck (who I don't rate particularly highly). I think Cole will still be better than Baines in 2014 as well. If Hodgson or any other England manager fails to qualify you, they will be sacked. Achieving qualification is simpler using experienced players rather than inconsistent, unproven young ones. International football is really a vicious cycle and many teams suffer because of it. I get what you are saying and in many ways you are right, but for once I'd like to see a brave team selection and some back-bone with regards to that team selection. I feel the side that lined up against and comfortably beat San Marino, would have fared no worse than the one which drew with Poland. It is nigh time an England manager showed some balls and conviction. It is staggering how a man of Hodgson's experience and expertise can start James f***ing Milner and give the captaincy to Gerrard, a payer well past his best and who by the time Brazil comes around, may not even be an option. It is as if once they become national manager, they lose all sense. Roy included. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Welbeck has good movement, touch and link up, works the channels well and pacy but he cannot finish to save his life. He reminds me of someone actually but i can't think of who Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I think what you are seeing with the likes of Wellbeck, Cleverly et al is a prototype (hopefully) of the future English footballer. Over the last decade coaching and development methods, philosophy and practices have changed or is changing to the point where an English striker will not be a big burly target man type but a more lithe and technical player who although not so prolific in front of goal, will be a much better all-round type of player. For example, I know a kid who is breaking all-kind of scoring records at under 9 level and it is because he is big, strong and can smack a ball with power which a few years back would have seen all the major scouts all over him, today though that isn't the case. This kid is a poor footballer and no matter how many goals he scores that will always be the case. Thankfully the big strong can hit a ball kid is being overlooked for your Wellbeck's. Obviously if you get a big strong kid who can smack a ball but who also has skill etc. then that kid will make it regardless. It is going to take a while, perhaps a decade or two more until we start producing players like Xavi or Augero et al but in the likes of Wellbeck we are starting to see a glimpse of the future and I for one welcome it. By the way, Carroll was that big strong lad who could smack a ball and he for me is a poor footballer, the like we will start to weed out eventually in favour of technically better footballers capable of much more with the ball. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I think what you are seeing with the likes of Wellbeck, Cleverly et al is a prototype (hopefully) of the future English footballer. Over the last decade coaching and development methods, philosophy and practices have changed or is changing to the point where an English striker will not be a big burly target man type but a more lithe and technical player who although not so prolific in front of goal, will be a much better all-round type of player. For example, I know a kid who is breaking all-kind of scoring records at under 9 level and it is because he is big, strong and can smack a ball with power which a few years back would have seen all the major scouts all over him, today though that isn't the case. This kid is a poor footballer and no matter how many goals he scores that will always be the case. Thankfully the big strong can hit a ball kid is being overlooked for your Wellbeck's. Obviously if you get a big strong kid who can smack a ball but who also has skill etc. then that kid will make it regardless. It is going to take a while, perhaps a decade or two more until we start producing players like Xavi or Augero et al but in the likes of Wellbeck we are starting to see a glimpse of the future and I for one welcome it. By the way, Carroll was that big strong lad who could smack a ball and he for me is a poor footballer, the like we will start to weed out eventually in favour of technically better footballers capable of much more with the ball. I totally disagree with that tbh. Carroll has good technique for a big man , and whether we like it or not, there'll always be less technical players in the game..workhorses have as much use in the game as the flair players Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I disagree with pretty much all of it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEMTEX Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Even if it was true, that we had to go through some form of stage of mediocre semi-technical nothing-players, it still wouldn't explain why they were in the England team, given we'd still win more games with our previous set of ox-like goal scorers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I don't see why the big oafs are better at finishing than this supposed new breed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEMTEX Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Well, because they've scored goals, where as the new breed have not. Assuming they = Carroll & new breed = Welbeck But even shite like Crouch is a better bet than Welbeck against these teams it seems. If Welbeck is only ever going to be a mediocre technical player with no actual creativity or finishing ability, we need to cut him loose. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Right. Hmm I'll level with you, the evidence seems a bit flaky. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Talking about breaking scoring records for under 9s ffs Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEMTEX Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I'm just not sure where this theory that Welbeck = promising/good has came from, other than the fact he's a Man Utd reserve. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Decent player who is overrated because he's at Man Utd. Is he overrated? I haven't heard of any hype about him myself. In many ways, given he's young, English and plays for Man Utd, there is perhaps a lack of hype about him. Mind his team-mate Cleverly is getting the media hype already and he's nothing but an above average player at the moment, nice and tidy and a decent prospect but nowt special. Suppose you can look at it either way; a) they play for Man Utd thus there's not much hype, they play for Man Utd, they must be good, or b) OMG THEY PLAY FOR MAN UTD THEY'RE MINT! Either way the point remains - they're decent players who are automatically thought of as very good, the next generation, because they play for a top club. While it can only help playing with the better players, that opinion (of them being the "next generation") says a lot more about where England are at, than the actual abilities of those 2 players, and players like them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I think Cleverly is a canny player. And speaking of young, English CMs, where the hell is Wilshere? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I think Cleverly is a canny player. And speaking of young, English CMs, where the hell is Wilshere? Slowly making his way back from injury. One hell of a layoff to have so young, it must be said. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEMTEX Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Still huffing glue or some shit. Who the fuck knows. He's dead to me now, he's been out so god damn long. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Welbeck and Rooney had a good partnership for most of last season. That was the main reason I wanted them upfront together at the Euros, but with Rooney perpetually shit for England anyway and that partnership not happening every game at club level anymore I'm not as keen. Welbeck upfront on his own or with whichever other knacker we have is a bit depressing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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