The College Dropout Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 I see that Gerrard is undecided on his future. What you need is a manager who will decide his future for him. JK didn't wait for Landycakes to call it a day, neither should Hodgson wait for Gerrard's decision. Speaks negatively of the man that he hasn't called it a day already. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Think as a nation, we would go a long way if we just admitted we are a genuine second-rate footballing nation. We have won 1 knockout round of international football since 2006. It's actually 1 since 2002. 2 since 1996. Ecuador and Denmark. Second rate is generous. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 I used to think international football was dated, but the more financial inequality increases in club football, with teams that can spend £100m in a window "competing" with clubs that can spend nothing, and with clubs actually being owned by states, the more I see international football as the true competition. It's a test of long term planning and team spirit. It's just a shame FIFA are c***s. Agreed. Globalism of football probably slightly benefits the less established countries than the bigger ones which is an advantage too. It's more competitive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Lineker's little video blog was great/brutal!: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/27960776 [/don't know if Giggs] This is why match of the day is annoying, Linekar is a far better pundit than anyone they get in and he's shackled presenting. Yeah, I agree. It'd be interesting to hear him in a different role. Hard to disagree with anything he said in that blog. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chicago_shearer Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Think as a nation, we would go a long way if we just admitted we are a genuine second-rate footballing nation. We have won 1 knockout round of international football since 2006. It's actually 1 since 2002. 2 since 1996. Ecuador and Denmark. Second rate is generous. Did anyone with half an interest in football not recognize that fact though? It's been at least a decade of talking down expectations, missing Euro 2008 etc. A poor qualifying campaign for this tournament. Lowering expectations was the relevant conversation after Euro 2000. I personally don't know anyone who didn't go into this tournament expecting any more than a QF appearance, and that was considered optimism. Quite a few "second-rate" or even third rate countries are on track for that target. The problem isn't that England didn't live up to lofty expectations. They didn't live up to fairly modest expectations, which I believe they had the talent already on-hand to meet. There's a deeper problem when it comes to character and performance under pressure. They stop enjoying themselves and this "we're not good enough - 40/50/60 years of hurt" BS takes over. It's football FFS. Other nations are enjoying themselves. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Baines and Oxlade kippered for the CR game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Think as a nation, we would go a long way if we just admitted we are a genuine second-rate footballing nation. We have won 1 knockout round of international football since 2006. It's actually 1 since 2002. 2 since 1996. Ecuador and Denmark. Second rate is generous. Did anyone with half an interest in football not recognize that fact though? It's been at least a decade of talking down expectations, missing Euro 2008 etc. A poor qualifying campaign for this tournament. Lowering expectations was the relevant conversation after Euro 2000. I personally don't know anyone who didn't go into this tournament expecting any more than a QF appearance, and that was considered optimism. Quite a few "second-rate" or even third rate countries are on track for that target. The problem isn't that England didn't live up to lofty expectations. They didn't live up to fairly modest expectations, which I believe they had the talent already on-hand to meet. There's a deeper problem when it comes to character and performance under pressure. They stop enjoying themselves and this "we're not good enough - 40/50/60 years of hurt" BS takes over. It's football FFS. Other nations are enjoying themselves. They haven't cobbled together a team and a new(ish) playing style for this tournament however. This is what I mentioned earlier. With the possible exception of Mexico, the other less established teams came to the tournament with better game plans. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 One thing Sven did which he doesn't get much credit for - was his concentration of youth. He kept most of the old-guard but largely on the bench. Brought in Gerrard, Cole, Heskey, Ferdinand as starters straight away. The team that lost to Germany was very different to the 5-1 team. They qualified for the tournament getting great experience. Out went some very good players too. Roy's kept Cole, Lampard & Gerrard. Then decided to ditch Cole for a 29 year-old at the last. Now, not all of this is Roy's fault. Obviously, the players aren't coming through at club level. Phil Jagielka ffs, it's a very difficult position. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chicago_shearer Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 I don't disagree about the gameplan. In hindsight, it simply didn't work. Gerrard wasn't suited for his role in particular. But even then, there were a few positives from the approach in contrast to previous tournaments. They showed enough at times to get results and didn't. England are out of this tournament because of errors from players that know better and lapses in concentration. With a little character, England have at least two points at this point, despite the squad and despite the gaps in Roy's 4-2-3-1. Just shit themselves. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Against Italy and Uruguay we failed to attack as a team or defend as a team. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 I don't disagree about the gameplan. In hindsight, it simply didn't work. Gerrard wasn't suited for his role in particular. But even then, there were a few positives from the approach in contrast to previous tournaments. They showed enough at times to get results and didn't. England are out of this tournament because of errors from players that know better and lapses in concentration. With a little character, England have at least two points at this point, despite the squad and despite the gaps in Roy's 4-2-3-1. Just s*** themselves. Them's the fine lines of international football though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Against Italy and Uruguay we failed to attack as a team or defend as a team. Agreed. Largely because it's a brand new team. Always thought it was a bad idea to suddenly go for youth at the WC finals. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Liverpool were given a lot of praise in the second half of the season, and it then seemed like 4-2-3-1 with Henderson and Sterling became the answer to England's problems as well. Over the years, I've seen several England managers succumb to that kind of bandwagon from the media and supporters. They're under a lot of pressure. Ultimately the biggest problem - and one that probably no amount of shuffling with formations or personnel could completely sort out - was our lack of defensive quality in the back four. That's been apparent for some time. We could have done better for sure, but we were always liable to get found out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 One thing Sven did which he doesn't get much credit for - was his concentration of youth. He kept most of the old-guard but largely on the bench. Brought in Gerrard, Cole, Heskey, Ferdinand as starters straight away. The team that lost to Germany was very different to the 5-1 team. They qualified for the tournament getting great experience. Out went some very good players too. Roy's kept Cole, Lampard & Gerrard. Then decided to ditch Cole for a 29 year-old at the last. Now, not all of this is Roy's fault. Obviously, the players aren't coming through at club level. Phil Jagielka ffs, it's a very difficult position. Keegan brought in Gerrard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 One thing Sven did which he doesn't get much credit for - was his concentration of youth. He kept most of the old-guard but largely on the bench. Brought in Gerrard, Cole, Heskey, Ferdinand as starters straight away. The team that lost to Germany was very different to the 5-1 team. They qualified for the tournament getting great experience. Out went some very good players too. Roy's kept Cole, Lampard & Gerrard. Then decided to ditch Cole for a 29 year-old at the last. Now, not all of this is Roy's fault. Obviously, the players aren't coming through at club level. Phil Jagielka ffs, it's a very difficult position. Keegan brought in Gerrard. As a starter? I'm sure Gerrard spent a lot of his younger days injured. But Sven put Gerrard at the heart of the team. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 One thing Sven did which he doesn't get much credit for - was his concentration of youth. He kept most of the old-guard but largely on the bench. Brought in Gerrard, Cole, Heskey, Ferdinand as starters straight away. The team that lost to Germany was very different to the 5-1 team. They qualified for the tournament getting great experience. Out went some very good players too. Roy's kept Cole, Lampard & Gerrard. Then decided to ditch Cole for a 29 year-old at the last. Now, not all of this is Roy's fault. Obviously, the players aren't coming through at club level. Phil Jagielka ffs, it's a very difficult position. Keegan brought in Gerrard. As a starter? I'm sure Gerrard spent a lot of his younger days injured. But Sven put Gerrard at the heart of the team. Yep. Played against Germany in Euro 2000. Edit: Sorry as a sub. Didnt fully read your post. But KK definitely introduced him to international football. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Haven't really read the thread as of late but I assume everyone is kicking off saying how s*** we were / are? I for one think we haven't really let ourselves down that much. Most realists had England down to struggle to get out of the group due to conditions and quality of the opponents anyways. We've given a few youngsters a chance and maybe could have operated with different players, or players in different positions but the top and bottom of it is that our players like Gerrard and Rooney aren't in the same bracket as Pirlo and Suarez. The Costa Rica game is a good opportunity for the youngsters to really step it up and play with freedom. That freedom will be limited though because the media are desperate for us to lose so they can sell more papers. The media are as much the problem for England as anything. They build it up so we all buy the papers and once the team is back to it's high heights, with lots of support they (the team) come up short and the papers make millions as we all buy the s**** about how they were dreadful and had no heart. Got to stick with what we have for me, and Gerrard and the likes should retire. Let the youngsters learn of the likes off him at club level and make their own destiny for England. After all, we have won f*** all since '66... Roy Hodgson is a top bloke and dignified leader for me. Stick with him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 You people. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 I think it's the fact he's English that's kept him in the job this time tbh. Yes there's potential, performances weren't too bad...but I reckon if that had been an overseas manager there'd have been a media clamber to force him out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Probably the same 'realists' who've allowed Alan Pardew to still be managing Newcastle United mid way through 2014. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 I think it's the fact he's English that's kept him in the job this time tbh. Yes there's potential, performances weren't too bad...but I reckon if that had been an overseas manager there'd have been a media clamber to force him out. We're out despite not playing too bad though. There is a small sense of injustice, maybe not deserving of what has happened. We got through this stage 4 years ago playing far worse than this. Agree about press reaction to a foreign manager mind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varadi Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Lampard in for Gerrard tomorrow, Barkley and Shaw to start: http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/27967383 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paully Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Mourinho will be the next England manager! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Lampard in for Gerrard tomorrow, Barkley and Shaw to start: http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/27967383 Should have just tried a side without Gerrard and Rooney IMO, not that it matters either way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Pinkman Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 I just don't think Roys the right man in the long term and I'll put good money on him going after 2016. We want to play fluid passing football with the onus being on the front foot, that's great but that's not a Roy Hodgson team, it's not the type of teams Roy has built his whole career. We are now starting to get attacking technical players slowly but surely breaking through but not a manger or the coaches to boot. So I suppose the million pound question is which English managers have a track record of building fluid attacking teams? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts