Ronaldo Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 Lastly.... Terry If he were a horse at Cheltenham he'd be put down. At this level he looks so out of place. Lescott on the other hand was very good as too were the full-backs, although Johnson had a few iffy moments. Fast becoming the Garth Crooks of the forum, dude. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 Better than being the Mark Lawrenson. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 Scrawny, biased runt with a self-righteous agenda? Fair point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 In all seriousness, though, I don't quite see why Terry's takes the flak so often in an England shirt. He's the least of England's problems. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.S.R. Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 Yes, I'm at a loss to explain why Terry may have lost the goodwill of the general public. He doesn't look physically up to it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zach Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 In all seriousness, though, I don't quite see why Terry's takes the flak so often in an England shirt. He's the least of England's problems. Definately, our defence, especially with John Terry is one of our strongest points. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 Lastly.... Terry If he were a horse at Cheltenham he'd be put down. At this level he looks so out of place. Lescott on the other hand was very good as too were the full-backs, although Johnson had a few iffy moments. Fast becoming the Garth Crooks of the forum, dude. Give over man, he's well past it at this level. And again with the American vernacular... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 You mean Johan Elmander's level? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 In all seriousness, though, I don't quite see why Terry's takes the flak so often in an England shirt. He's the least of England's problems. He is the least of our problems or one of the lesser problems but he is a symbol of all that is wrong with English football. He has moderate ability but is or was regarded as a world-class centre-back. Wrong. Ferdinand was a world-class centre-back. Nesta. Dessailly. Lucio. Carvalho even. Terry... he's average at best at this level. He's also an odious cunt of a person. Me, I personally find it embarrassing seeing him in an England shirt. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 Yeah, he's a cunt. And unsurprisingly you're letting that influence your opinion of him as a player. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 Yeah, he's a c***. And unsurprisingly you're letting that influence your opinion of him as a player. Far from it. I have never been impressed with Terry as an international for the last few tournaments when it wasn't so apparent that he was a cunt. I just think he lacks a good few attributes needed at this level. He's great at getting his head on the end of a cross, flying into strikes to block the ball or generally trying to remain physically strong against a physically strong opponent which is your typical Premier League faire but at this level, centre-backs are not tested in that way, not as much to require such a centre-back. Parker is similar. A top Premier League player but at this level, he looks way out of his depth and that's because the qualities he has or rather the attributes he has, just aren't required at this level and because he doesn't have enough ability to play another way if you like, he just looks poor in general. Terry is the same. When he's ran at, turned, up against a smart player or asked to bring the ball out and to deal with tactical switches from the opposition forwards, he struggles and badly so. At times last night he was like a rabbit caught in the headlights of a car when up against Abrahamivic who didn't exactly have a great game to be fair, but whenever he was up against Terry, the Chelsea man looked out of his depth. Your problem Ronaldo, you're very knowledgeable but you refuse to either accept others have a different opinion or when it challenges your own you cannot deal with it. To you Terry is great etc. To me, he's the opposite. Colo wipes the floor with him on every level as does the player sat at home in Rio Ferdinand. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 Yeah, he's a c***. And unsurprisingly you're letting that influence your opinion of him as a player. Far from it. I have never been impressed with Terry as an international for the last few tournaments when it wasn't so apparent that he was a c***. I just think he lacks a good few attributes needed at this level. He's great at getting his head on the end of a cross, flying into strikes to block the ball or generally trying to remain physically strong against a physically strong opponent which is your typical Premier League faire but at this level, centre-backs are not tested in that way, not as much to require such a centre-back. Parker is similar. A top Premier League player but at this level, he looks way out of his depth and that's because the qualities he has or rather the attributes he has, just aren't required at this level and because he doesn't have enough ability to play another way if you like, he just looks poor in general. Terry is the same. When he's ran at, turned, up against a smart player or asked to bring the ball out and to deal with tactical switches from the opposition forwards, he struggles and badly so. At times last night he was like a rabbit caught in the headlights of a car when up against Abrahamivic who didn't exactly have a great game to be fair, but whenever he was up against Terry, the Chelsea man looked out of his depth. Your problem Ronaldo, you're very knowledgeable but you refuse to either accept others have a different opinion or when it challenges your own you cannot deal with it. To you Terry is great etc. To me, he's the opposite. Colo wipes the floor with him on every level as does the player sat at home in Rio Ferdinand. Agree completly with the second part in bold, the first part is pretty ludicrous though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest n4e Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 Pirlo's at leat 5 years past his best and Cassano has less than half as many international goals as Peter Crouch. There's very, very little to fear in that Italian side. Pirlo is infinitely better than any of our midfielders, the man's class. Aye he's only been one of the best midfielders this season in Europe Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 Hodgson had the choice of Terry and Ferdinand early doors and should have went for Ferdinand, ability-aside (and I don't think there's much between them currently) it was the right thing to do in the circumstances and Terry will end up fucking Hodgson over with his behaviour at some point as he has done to various other managers. Once it got to the point that Martin Kelly was included I actually agreed with his decision not to take Ferdinand as you can't have those 2 in the same squad IMO. I didn't agree with his "football reasons" justification necessarily but if you start saying it's for other reasons then it looks like you've picked the guy facing charges for racism ahead of the victim's brother for very dodgy reasons, and whether that's what's happening or not you can't really come out and say it. The situation's a mess but that's John Terry for you, brings a lot of baggage. Anyway I really enjoyed the game last night and was happy with the character England showed, I'd have been delighted with a draw at 2-1 down but to come back and hold on was pretty impressive. Think we deserved it against a slow and ageing Swedish side but the big tests will come when having to be patient and spoil the game against better sides, we did a canny job of this against France but we need to start keeping clean sheets as it's doubtful you'll score more than one goal against a Spain or a Germany. Would imagine we'll be out at the quarters tbh, which is acceptable progress really. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 Completely agree that Ferdinand is the better player and he should have been in the squad instead. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashley17 Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 If Ferdinand wasn't a walking injury I agree. If he'd taken Ferdinand over Terry we'd be looking at Lescott/Jagielka at this point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 Rio and Terry are both past their best. Rio has arguably been on the wane for longer and is also injury prone , whereas Terry is a better leader. Out of the 2, I prefer Terry. But I've never rated Rio so my judgment is probably tainted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 Ferdinand used to be one of the best defenders in the world IMO, it's a good point about his fitness though - if he can't play every 4 days then he's not really fit for purpose. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/alan-pardews-euro-zone-england-can-reign-against-ukraine-7856519.html Having watched England come back so well to beat Sweden on Friday night, I am convinced they can now win an "away" game against Ukraine on Tuesday. Win the group and almost certainly avoid Spain in the quarter-final? That is trickier, given that France have a slightly better goal difference and will be playing a Swedish side who are out of the competition. Ukraine will have big support and I can see them having a good spell against us for maybe 20 minutes or so in which the defence has to hold out, but we can then catch them on the break or from a set play. Andrey Shevchenko won them the game against Sweden with two headers, what I call instinctive goals, and he can always get one of those but he doesn't frighten me so much these days. Ten years ago yes, but not now. Bringing Wayne Rooney back into the side is a no-brainer and I expect it to be Andy Carroll who makes way for him. Tell Andy he has scored a great goal and we need him to be ready to come on in the last 20 minutes again if necessary, but that Rooney is the man, especially with his Manchester United team-mate Danny Welbeck alongside him. And Andy in my experience of him will accept that. He will be disappointed of course because they all want to play but he will understand that Rooney is a level above him at the moment. I was delighted to see him score a typical Carroll goal with that terrific header, the best of the tournament for me. What I would say is that Zlatan Ibrahimovic, who has his critics in England, showed Andy with his all-round performance just how far he has to go to get to the next level. Linking up the play, getting shots off, shrugging people off the ball. If Andy wants to improve, that shows him the work he has to do on the training ground on his all-round game. I would keep Ashley Young in but there is a tough call for Roy Hodgson on the other flank between James Milner and Theo Walcott after Theo came on and did exactly what you want from an impact substitute. I'm happy to leave that one to Roy. But England to win. Team spirit adds missing element I honestly do not think England would have come back like that in the Sweden game in the recent past. It was a great, great result in the circumstances and what it showed was the power and spirit of this group of players. In the past there has often been a lack of harmony and we have not had the group together for whatever reasons – maybe the Man United-Liverpool factions for instance. This squad, without being as good individually, look very much as though they have a team spirit for one of the first times I can remember. There is a free spirit about them too, which possibly comes from having a good influx of young players there and they will now have the belief that even if they go behind they can come back and do it. The game against France was different because you felt all along that the French had that extra bit of quality which was going to tell eventually. So to come out of the first two matches with four points was a great effort. Of course there was a bad period in the 15 or 20 minutes after half-time against Sweden, but I do a lot of work with defenders and I would have sat mine down and said to them that the first goal was just one of those bad breaks that fell nicely for Sweden – it happens, take it on the chin. The second goal was a poor one and not like us. We also need to remember sometimes that this is top-class international football, in which you are up against quality opposition. England had Ashley Cole and Ashley Young down the left, which in any Premier League team would give you an awful lot of ammunition, yet on Friday we got very little penetration from them. Full marks for a cool head and clear thinking Roy Hodgson has now had two competitive matches after the two friendlies, all four games unbeaten, and you have to give him very good marks. His selections and substitutions have been spot-on; he has worked very hard with the talent available; handled the media very well; and you can see from his animation on the sidelines how much he cares. I've seen other England managers on that touchline sometimes looking quite glassy-eyed, as if they're thinking "what on earth do I do now?" Roy has the experience to avoid that and make the right calls with a calm head. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 But I've never rated Rio so my judgment is probably tainted. Crazy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisMcQuillan Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 Ferdinand used to be one of the best defenders in the world IMO, it's a good point about his fitness though - if he can't play every 4 days then he's not really fit for purpose. Ferdinand at his best was frightening, he was a colossus. But of the two, Terry is far closer to his peak than Ferdinand, who for at least half this season at Man Utd looked mediocre. Lescott is by far a better choice to partner, or Jagielka. That said, I'd have Ferdinand in ahead of Martin fucking Kelly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoSelecta Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 Im quite pleased with the young players we have in and around the squad at the minute. I think they will never match the squads of the Germans and Spanish etc but if you look at the age of some of our players its quite posotive. Hart - 25 Phil Jones - 20 Smalling - 22 Richards - 23 Cahill -26 the Ox - 18 Walcott - 23 Young - 26 Carroll - 23 Welbeck - 21 Rooney -26 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dyeyzzon Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 Im quite pleased with the young players we have in and around the squad at the minute. I think they will never match the squads of the Germans and Spanish etc but if you look at the age of some of our players its quite posotive. Hart - 25 Phil Jones - 20 Smalling - 22 Richards - 23 Cahill -26 the Ox - 18 Walcott - 23 Young - 26 Carroll - 23 Welbeck - 21 Rooney -26 Wilshere's been injured for some time too, so too is Rodwell. Could see them at the CM slots if they get over their injuries. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoSelecta Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 Im quite pleased with the young players we have in and around the squad at the minute. I think they will never match the squads of the Germans and Spanish etc but if you look at the age of some of our players its quite posotive. Hart - 25 Phil Jones - 20 Smalling - 22 Richards - 23 Cahill -26 the Ox - 18 Walcott - 23 Young - 26 Carroll - 23 Welbeck - 21 Rooney -26 Wilshere's been injured for some time too, so too is Rodwell. Could see them at the CM slots if they get over their injuries. For sure. I knew I would have forgotten a few. Perchinio is only 26 aswell Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Spaceman Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 Im quite pleased with the young players we have in and around the squad at the minute. I think they will never match the squads of the Germans and Spanish etc but if you look at the age of some of our players its quite posotive. Hart - 25 Phil Jones - 20 Smalling - 22 Richards - 23 Cahill -26 the Ox - 18 Walcott - 23 Young - 26 Carroll - 23 Welbeck - 21 Rooney -26 Wilshere's been injured for some time too, so too is Rodwell. Could see them at the CM slots if they get over their injuries. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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