Neil Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 where the hell is Wilshere? Actually, upon further research.... http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e9/Wiltshire_UK_locator_map_2010.svg/200px-Wiltshire_UK_locator_map_2010.svg.png There. Wish I thought of that first time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beren Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 One of Welbeck's best strengths is also one of the reasons why he's not great IMO - which maybe sounds a little too poetic to be true, but I think it's right. He's good at dropping back, being a link-up man between midfield and attack, working the channels, running hard - sacrificing himself so that others can score. It really shows when the onus is on him to score though, because he's not especially good at it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I figured out who Welbeck reminds me of and it's Adebayor, they share all the same strengths and they both need ten million chances to score a goal. As for Wilshere he is quite close to a return apparently, had 3 or 4 games for the reserves. But it's not the defence and midfield talents i'm concerned about as there is ability there if they can stay fit and the manager actually picks them. The forwards is what concerns me, it's genuinely depressing tbh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexf Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I agree that bit HTT said about big kids getting picked up by scouts when they are young. There was a lad i used to play with who was half a size at least bigger than everyone else and just used to score goals for fun. Got scouted by wolves but never got anywhere because as soon as the other lads caught up with him physically he got found out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallace Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I think Cleverly is a canny player. And speaking of young, English CMs, where the hell is Wilshere? Slowly making his way back from injury. One hell of a layoff to have so young, it must be said. Has apparently now picked up a hamstring injury. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbandit Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 No surprise like, if you've been out of the game for that long it doesn't matter what conditioning and training you've done. You're always going to be susceptible to injuries once you start playing football properly Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeyt Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 John Terry confirms transfer from Chelsea to Serbia Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
1878 Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 What gets me, if Woy was still at West Brom and they had just won a game, there is no way he'd make lots of changes for the next match, he'd keep a settled side, so why the f*** did he f*** with the side that beat San Marino by making so many changes?! I like Hodgson as a manager but he's just not suited to this role. We need a young dynamic manager who will drop the old guard and get a settled side going. We don't have the greatest of squads but we have decent talent, especially attacking talent, that needs selected, kept together and freed to express themselves. Someone like AVB actually. Milner should never get a game for England and nor should Gerrard whereas your Cole's, although clearly still needed, should be the back up to emerging talent like Baines. Wellbeck is a much better all-rounder than Defoe who is in his 30s now and is one dimensional. He too shouldn't start games, not ahead of exciting youngsters like Wellback, the future basically. With England, I despair I really do. Our reserves could probably beat Torquay in a League Cup match. Should we then start them against a Premier League side in the next match. Poland and San Marino are not in any way congruent and the results against them don''t have much correlation If you want to put in youth just for the sake of it, then I understand, but imo Cole is better than Baines and Defoe is better than Welbeck (who I don't rate particularly highly). I think Cole will still be better than Baines in 2014 as well. If Hodgson or any other England manager fails to qualify you, they will be sacked. Achieving qualification is simpler using experienced players rather than inconsistent, unproven young ones. International football is really a vicious cycle and many teams suffer because of it. Cole hasn't been as good as Baines for the last two years, nevermind better. And 2014? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishmael Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 To ensure confidentiality, all those present at the internal Chelsea disciplinary hearing also had to wear disguises. http://i.imgur.com/84QKa.jpg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishmael Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 I think what you are seeing with the likes of Wellbeck, Cleverly et al is a prototype (hopefully) of the future English footballer. Over the last decade coaching and development methods, philosophy and practices have changed or is changing to the point where an English striker will not be a big burly target man type but a more lithe and technical player who although not so prolific in front of goal, will be a much better all-round type of player. For example, I know a kid who is breaking all-kind of scoring records at under 9 level and it is because he is big, strong and can smack a ball with power which a few years back would have seen all the major scouts all over him, today though that isn't the case. This kid is a poor footballer and no matter how many goals he scores that will always be the case. Thankfully the big strong can hit a ball kid is being overlooked for your Wellbeck's. Obviously if you get a big strong kid who can smack a ball but who also has skill etc. then that kid will make it regardless. It is going to take a while, perhaps a decade or two more until we start producing players like Xavi or Augero et al but in the likes of Wellbeck we are starting to see a glimpse of the future and I for one welcome it. By the way, Carroll was that big strong lad who could smack a ball and he for me is a poor footballer, the like we will start to weed out eventually in favour of technically better footballers capable of much more with the ball. I totally disagree with that tbh. Carroll has good technique for a big man , and whether we like it or not, there'll always be less technical players in the game..workhorses have as much use in the game as the flair players I think his technique is quite average myself which is the whole point of updating our coaching and development methods, practices and indeed philosophies so that we start producing technically good players and hopefully technically great players rather than technically average players like Carroll who lets face it wouldn't have cut the grade in say Italy or Spain as a youngster. His size, strength and power made him stand out as a young player by all accounts, especially over others, and those are attributes our game are built on or were, from Grassroots all the way to the National side. To be fair to the lad, he's done well enough to make the break-through given his limited ability in footballing terms. But that to me says more about our game and how we play it. Players like Carroll thrive in our set-up, be it as a 7 year-old or playing for England at Wembley. Strength, power, physical attributes in general, bravery, passion and all that other bull-shit rank high in our footballing pyramid, whereas technical skills and flair are an after thought. I don't want to sound like a snob but I hope in say ten years time, we won't see the likes of Carroll coming through the youth ranks of our clubs. I'd rather we produced more rounded forwards. Yes like Wellbeck who I will say here and now will have a much better career than Carroll simply because he's a better footballer with more attributes. He wouldn't be at Man Utd otherwise. I agree there will of course always be average and limited players and workhorses but for me, all footballers at the highest level should be technically competent and have some degree of skill like most do on the continent. A huge number of English players can't even pass the ball or take a shot with their 'other' foot which for me is a national footballing disgrace and an embarrassment to be honest. Things are changing and just as well, it will take a long time though and although I fear we are doomed at grassroots level due to thick dads and win at all cost coaches, plus poor facilities, at academy level at least, finally people are seeing sense and looking beyond your Carroll types when scouting/developing youngsters and looking more towards technical ability and skill level. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
loki679 Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 I think what you are seeing with the likes of Wellbeck, Cleverly et al is a prototype (hopefully) of the future English footballer. Over the last decade coaching and development methods, philosophy and practices have changed or is changing to the point where an English striker will not be a big burly target man type but a more lithe and technical player who although not so prolific in front of goal, will be a much better all-round type of player. For example, I know a kid who is breaking all-kind of scoring records at under 9 level and it is because he is big, strong and can smack a ball with power which a few years back would have seen all the major scouts all over him, today though that isn't the case. This kid is a poor footballer and no matter how many goals he scores that will always be the case. Thankfully the big strong can hit a ball kid is being overlooked for your Wellbeck's. Obviously if you get a big strong kid who can smack a ball but who also has skill etc. then that kid will make it regardless. It is going to take a while, perhaps a decade or two more until we start producing players like Xavi or Augero et al but in the likes of Wellbeck we are starting to see a glimpse of the future and I for one welcome it. By the way, Carroll was that big strong lad who could smack a ball and he for me is a poor footballer, the like we will start to weed out eventually in favour of technically better footballers capable of much more with the ball. I totally disagree with that tbh. Carroll has good technique for a big man , and whether we like it or not, there'll always be less technical players in the game..workhorses have as much use in the game as the flair players I think his technique is quite average myself which is the whole point of updating our coaching and development methods, practices and indeed philosophies so that we start producing technically good players and hopefully technically great players rather than technically average players like Carroll who lets face it wouldn't have cut the grade in say Italy or Spain as a youngster. His size, strength and power made him stand out as a young player by all accounts, especially over others, and those are attributes our game are built on or were, from Grassroots all the way to the National side. To be fair to the lad, he's done well enough to make the break-through given his limited ability in footballing terms. But that to me says more about our game and how we play it. Players like Carroll thrive in our set-up, be it as a 7 year-old or playing for England at Wembley. Strength, power, physical attributes in general, bravery, passion and all that other bull-s*** rank high in our footballing pyramid, whereas technical skills and flair are an after thought. I don't want to sound like a snob but I hope in say ten years time, we won't see the likes of Carroll coming through the youth ranks of our clubs. I'd rather we produced more rounded forwards. Yes like Wellbeck who I will say here and now will have a much better career than Carroll simply because he's a better footballer with more attributes. He wouldn't be at Man Utd otherwise. I agree there will of course always be average and limited players and workhorses but for me, all footballers at the highest level should be technically competent and have some degree of skill like most do on the continent. A huge number of English players can't even pass the ball or take a shot with their 'other' foot which for me is a national footballing disgrace and an embarrassment to be honest. Things are changing and just as well, it will take a long time though and although I fear we are doomed at grassroots level due to thick dads and win at all cost coaches, plus poor facilities, at academy level at least, finally people are seeing sense and looking beyond your Carroll types when scouting/developing youngsters and looking more towards technical ability and skill level. I bet you get through a lot of keyboards. Good post though, agree with the great majority of it. Strength and power has been rated over skill and technique at youth levels for far too long. Hopefully the switch to smaller pitches and fewer players per side will aid the transition. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 I agree that bit HTT said about big kids getting picked up by scouts when they are young. There was a lad i used to play with who was half a size at least bigger than everyone else and just used to score goals for fun. Got scouted by wolves but never got anywhere because as soon as the other lads caught up with him physically he got found out. It has been the case since footy began. Its a vicious circle because... Coach picks bigger 9 year-old lad over smaller lad because he's well, bigger and stronger. Because of that, he can hit a ball harder and muscle his way through to goal and therefore score more than some of his team-mates and opposition. Because he has lots of goals to his name, scouts think of the next Shearer. Hopeful of finding the next Shearer, they send the big kid off to an Academy who try and try to coach some technical ability and skills into the lad but by the time he's a teenager, the others are the same height etc. but they have way more skill and technical ability so the former big kid gets discarded. Rewind back through the vicious circle and some skilful and nippy little kid sick of not getting a game because he's not a big lad, gets disillusioned and decided he'll have more fun playing cricket. The national game potentially loses anther George Best. Fast forward back to the big lad.... things could have been different, he got discarded but ended up at another academy and is now banging them in for fun at... Gateshead or Nuneaton. I saw it all too often when I was into coaching. Again, things are slowly changing, moreso at the very top though. Its the same with coaching and managers by the way, we need to change our ways if we want to produce better coaches and managers. ` Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
womblemaster Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 womens friendly vs france on bbc3 now.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 What gets me, if Woy was still at West Brom and they had just won a game, there is no way he'd make lots of changes for the next match, he'd keep a settled side, so why the f*** did he f*** with the side that beat San Marino by making so many changes?! I like Hodgson as a manager but he's just not suited to this role. We need a young dynamic manager who will drop the old guard and get a settled side going. We don't have the greatest of squads but we have decent talent, especially attacking talent, that needs selected, kept together and freed to express themselves. Someone like AVB actually. Milner should never get a game for England and nor should Gerrard whereas your Cole's, although clearly still needed, should be the back up to emerging talent like Baines. Wellbeck is a much better all-rounder than Defoe who is in his 30s now and is one dimensional. He too shouldn't start games, not ahead of exciting youngsters like Wellback, the future basically. With England, I despair I really do. Our reserves could probably beat Torquay in a League Cup match. Should we then start them against a Premier League side in the next match. Poland and San Marino are not in any way congruent and the results against them don''t have much correlation If you want to put in youth just for the sake of it, then I understand, but imo Cole is better than Baines and Defoe is better than Welbeck (who I don't rate particularly highly). I think Cole will still be better than Baines in 2014 as well. If Hodgson or any other England manager fails to qualify you, they will be sacked. Achieving qualification is simpler using experienced players rather than inconsistent, unproven young ones. International football is really a vicious cycle and many teams suffer because of it. Cole hasn't been as good as Baines for the last two years, nevermind better. And 2014? Yeah that's not true like. At all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbandit Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Women's game on BBC3 here against France, shockingly bad Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilko Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Bless them dykes trying to play football Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenham Mag Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
womblemaster Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 decent free kick from the geordie lass, and header from the mackem. thats cross for the header was good. woy could learn something there! second half was have to say tho frances 2nd was an amazing volley! =to a HBA effort. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgarve Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/mobile/football/20253225 Arsenal midfielder Jack Wilshere has been recalled to the England squad for next week's friendly against Sweden. Wilshere, 20, only recently made his first team return after being out injured for more than a year. There is a first call up for Everton midfielder Leon Osman, 31, while Liverpool duo Raheem Sterling, 17, and Jonjo Shelvey, 20, are also included. Reds captain Steven Gerrard is in line to become the sixth England player to earn his 100th international cap. The squad features 10 changes to the one announced for the World Cup qualifiers against Ukraine and Poland. Ashley Cole, also on 99 caps, is left out after missing Chelsea's Champions League victory over Shakhtar Donetsk on Wednesday because of a hamstring injury. Joleon Lescott, Adam Johnson, James Milner, Andy Carroll, Kieran Gibbs, Michael Carrick, Frank Lampard, Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain and Jermain Defoe are all also absent for the game in Stockholm. Wilshere has not featured for his country since making his fifth appearance in June 2011 against Switzerland. The 20-year-old, who has struggled with a serious knee injury, only made his Premier League return for Arsenal against QPR two weeks ago - his first start for the Gunners since May 2011. Arsenal boss Arsene Wenger had hoped Wilshere, who has made just three first team appearance since returning from injury, would be overlooked by Hodgson as the club try to ease him back into action. But Wilshere would have been unavailable for this weekend's Premier League match against Fulham after he was sent off in last weekend's defeat to Manchester United. Sterling has been impressive for Liverpool for this season and was a late call-up for the World Cup qualifier with Ukraine last month - however he failed to make it off the bench. While Gerrard is targeting his 100th cap at the age of 32, Osman will hope to get his first aged 31 after a strong start to the campaign with Everton. The squad also features Tottenham defender Steven Caulker, who was among 11 people to be charged by Serbian police following last month's Euro 2013 Under-21 play-off over against Serbia. Ashley Young, meanwhile, makes a return after a couple of weeks on the sidelines with bruised cartilage on his knee. The squad are expected to meet up on Sunday and train in Manchester before travelling to Sweden for Wednesday's game. Goalkeepers: Fraser Forster (Celtic), Joe Hart (Manchester City), John Ruddy (Norwich City). Defenders: Leighton Baines (Everton), Ryan Bertrand (Chelsea), Gary Cahill (Chelsea), Steven Caulker (Tottenham), Phil Jagielka (Everton), Glen Johnson (Liverpool), Ryan Shawcross (Stoke City), Kyle Walker (Tottenham). Midfielders: Tom Cleverley (Manchester United), Steven Gerrard (Liverpool), Aaron Lennon (Tottenham), Leon Osman (Everton), Jonjo Shelvey (Liverpool), Raheem Sterling (Liverpool), Theo Walcott (Arsenal), Jack Wilshere (Arsenal), Ashley Young (Manchester United). Forwards: Wayne Rooney (Manchester United), Daniel Sturridge (Chelsea), Daniel Welbeck (Manchester United). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgarve Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 Nice to see osman in there, I don't know what Wiltshire has proven though? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
1878 Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 Osman should have been in and around the England squad for years tbh instead of rank average plodders like Barry. He's a decent Prem player but has looked much more suited to European games where his technique and quick feet aren't hindered by his slight build and lack of pace which can happen when you're playing against the likes of Stoke at 100mph. Just hope he gets given a go at centre mid rather than shoved on the wing or the press will crucify him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuneaton Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 :lol: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 I'm well disappointed that somehow I haven't been given free tickets for this Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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