The England Thread

[SEMTEX]

The squad is massive, so I'd have no concerns losing Sterling for a player of another position. I've no issues with the squad in general, but there are a few players there who don't deserve to be there at all, and Raheem Sterling is leading that pack.

[Incognito]

Barkley reminds me very much of a young Gascoigne, he has an excellent future ahead of him, as do England with the likes of Wilshere, AOC, Welbeck, Sturridge and Barkley.

[Guest neesy111]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23963416

[Tooj]

I'll be impressed with him if he sacks Trevor Brooking immediately.

[Shush]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23963416

 

I'd love a rule that said minimum of 5 players in all starting line-ups must be British. That would do it for me. I'm certain there are decent English youngsters not getting the development or chances they need and on top there are existing pro's in the lower leagues that are being over-looked that could do a job for the top division. As a bare minimum there should be a rule that you can't have a side playing made up from 100% of non-British players in the league.

[Mole_Toonfan]

Well something needs to be done from top to f*cking bottom, but whether they know what is another matter entirely.

 

I hope that they do for the good of the country, would be nice to have a team that i can be proud of again.

 

And not overpaid, arrogant twats who i have nothing positives towards.

[Dave]

Not a single English player will be in our probable starting XI for the next game, injuries permitting. Not sure how much I care about that.

[jdckelly]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23963416

 

I'd love a rule that said minimum of 5 players in all starting line-ups must be British. That would do it for me. I'm certain there are decent English youngsters not getting the development or chances they need and on top there are existing pro's in the lower leagues that are being over-looked that could do a job for the top division. As a bare minimum there should be a rule that you can't have a side playing made up from 100% of non-British players in the league.

problem is any such rule would be utterly illegal under EU law

[Shush]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23963416

 

I'd love a rule that said minimum of 5 players in all starting line-ups must be British. That would do it for me. I'm certain there are decent English youngsters not getting the development or chances they need and on top there are existing pro's in the lower leagues that are being over-looked that could do a job for the top division. As a bare minimum there should be a rule that you can't have a side playing made up from 100% of non-British players in the league.

problem is any such rule would be utterly illegal under EU law

 

Why? It's still 6/11 biased towards non-local players?

 

Rhetorical question, of course. I'm sure there isn't a specific EU law regarding football and this scenario, but sure there is a law about refusing a person a job anywhere because of their nationality being within the EU but not British etc.

[jdckelly]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23963416

 

I'd love a rule that said minimum of 5 players in all starting line-ups must be British. That would do it for me. I'm certain there are decent English youngsters not getting the development or chances they need and on top there are existing pro's in the lower leagues that are being over-looked that could do a job for the top division. As a bare minimum there should be a rule that you can't have a side playing made up from 100% of non-British players in the league.

problem is any such rule would be utterly illegal under EU law

 

Why? It's still 6/11 biased towards non-local players?

 

Rhetorical question, of course. I'm sure there isn't a specific EU law regarding football and this scenario, but sure there is a law about refusing a person a job anywhere because of their nationality being within the EU but not British etc.

yup there is, same reason the squad rules can't say minimum 8 english players but 8 "homegrown" players which can and do include people of any nationality like Krul for us or in the past Fabregas for Arsenal.

From an outsiders pov it seems to me relying on football clubs whose relative wealth spending wise compared to the rest of europe is ridiculous to produce players for the national side is silly since they're solely looking out for themselves and most club owners aren't English most managers aren't English so they don't overly care about the England side, and barring the odd exception managers are never there long enough to look beyond short term thinking to save their job so will be less inclined to use younger players because of the risk.

[Shush]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23963416

 

I'd love a rule that said minimum of 5 players in all starting line-ups must be British. That would do it for me. I'm certain there are decent English youngsters not getting the development or chances they need and on top there are existing pro's in the lower leagues that are being over-looked that could do a job for the top division. As a bare minimum there should be a rule that you can't have a side playing made up from 100% of non-British players in the league.

problem is any such rule would be utterly illegal under EU law

 

Why? It's still 6/11 biased towards non-local players?

 

Rhetorical question, of course. I'm sure there isn't a specific EU law regarding football and this scenario, but sure there is a law about refusing a person a job anywhere because of their nationality being within the EU but not British etc.

yup there is, same reason the squad rules can't say minimum 8 english players but 8 "homegrown" players which can and do include people of any nationality like Krul for us or in the past Fabregas for Arsenal.

From an outsiders pov it seems to me relying on football clubs whose relative wealth spending wise compared to the rest of europe is ridiculous to produce players for the national side is silly since they're solely looking out for themselves and most club owners aren't English most managers aren't English so they don't overly care about the England side, and barring the odd exception managers are never there long enough to look beyond short term thinking to save their job so will be less inclined to use younger players because of the risk.

 

Is foreign owners of clubs the root cause then?

[jdckelly]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23963416

 

I'd love a rule that said minimum of 5 players in all starting line-ups must be British. That would do it for me. I'm certain there are decent English youngsters not getting the development or chances they need and on top there are existing pro's in the lower leagues that are being over-looked that could do a job for the top division. As a bare minimum there should be a rule that you can't have a side playing made up from 100% of non-British players in the league.

problem is any such rule would be utterly illegal under EU law

 

Why? It's still 6/11 biased towards non-local players?

 

Rhetorical question, of course. I'm sure there isn't a specific EU law regarding football and this scenario, but sure there is a law about refusing a person a job anywhere because of their nationality being within the EU but not British etc.

yup there is, same reason the squad rules can't say minimum 8 english players but 8 "homegrown" players which can and do include people of any nationality like Krul for us or in the past Fabregas for Arsenal.

From an outsiders pov it seems to me relying on football clubs whose relative wealth spending wise compared to the rest of europe is ridiculous to produce players for the national side is silly since they're solely looking out for themselves and most club owners aren't English most managers aren't English so they don't overly care about the England side, and barring the odd exception managers are never there long enough to look beyond short term thinking to save their job so will be less inclined to use younger players because of the risk.

 

Is foreign owners of clubs the root cause then?

nope I'd say the most obvious root cause is the miles lower amount of coach's present. The cash of the premier league doesn't help either since relegation is such a disaster how many clubs would be willing to take a chance on young english players to be a mainstay of their side going into a season? 

[Shush]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23963416

 

I'd love a rule that said minimum of 5 players in all starting line-ups must be British. That would do it for me. I'm certain there are decent English youngsters not getting the development or chances they need and on top there are existing pro's in the lower leagues that are being over-looked that could do a job for the top division. As a bare minimum there should be a rule that you can't have a side playing made up from 100% of non-British players in the league.

problem is any such rule would be utterly illegal under EU law

 

Why? It's still 6/11 biased towards non-local players?

 

Rhetorical question, of course. I'm sure there isn't a specific EU law regarding football and this scenario, but sure there is a law about refusing a person a job anywhere because of their nationality being within the EU but not British etc.

yup there is, same reason the squad rules can't say minimum 8 english players but 8 "homegrown" players which can and do include people of any nationality like Krul for us or in the past Fabregas for Arsenal.

From an outsiders pov it seems to me relying on football clubs whose relative wealth spending wise compared to the rest of europe is ridiculous to produce players for the national side is silly since they're solely looking out for themselves and most club owners aren't English most managers aren't English so they don't overly care about the England side, and barring the odd exception managers are never there long enough to look beyond short term thinking to save their job so will be less inclined to use younger players because of the risk.

 

Is foreign owners of clubs the root cause then?

nope I'd say the most obvious root cause is the miles lower amount of coach's present. The cash of the premier league doesn't help either since relegation is such a disaster how many clubs would be willing to take a chance on young english players to be a mainstay of their side going into a season?

 

Youth coaches is a definitely. You only have to compare the amounts we have at grass-roots level versus Germany and Spain to see why we are so far behind on the pitch.

[Tooj]

There's not much financial incentive over here though is there? (Not sure what it's like abroad mind)

[Guest]

Absolutely naff all stopping young English players go to France, Spain, etc. playing for lower Ligue 1, La Liga sides or whatever, but do you think they'd give up their 5-figure weekly wages for a fraction of that, despite first-team football?

 

Works both ways.

[Guest neesy111]

I'll be impressed with him if he sacks Trevor Brooking immediately.

 

[Mole_Toonfan]

Absolutely naff all stopping young English players go to France, Spain, etc. playing for lower Ligue 1, La Liga sides or whatever, but do you think they'd give up their 5-figure weekly wages for a fraction of that, despite first-team football?

 

Works both ways.

 

Absolutely nothing to do with that.

 

It's the empire mentality that still pertains in Britain today. Everyone in Europe can speak multiple languages and can speak English better than most people in this country (UK) atm. We refuse to learn other languages and when we go abroad we expect them to speak English. This is also shown in our football, where we refuse to use new training methods and improve, believing our way is superior despite the results. They are too comfortable in England. It's no surprise that Hargreaves was technically superior to all our mf playing atm and he didn't learn his football in this country. Spain has reached this level because of importing ideas from multiple nations. England continually refuse to look outside. It's more than football, it's a mentality.

[Tiresias]

too readily available high wages for bench sitting players is a huge problem imo too, players get to a position that they may be decent enough for the national team, go to an interested 'big' club thinking (at least I hope thinking) they can break huge and also get the huge cash and instead end up bit part players. Sinclair is the most extreme form of this.

 

England will achieve nothing until it sorts out it's academy system (and making it easier for rich clubs to poach young talent was exactly the opposite of what was needed, thanks FA). Ideally with strong enough academies any kind of quota amoung the premier league would be academic as talented english players would be as good, but as foreign players are technically better and cheaper this is unlikely to happen anytime soon, albeit the premier league is losing some of it's pull it seems so maybe within a few years it will need to look at it's own more.

 

Until at all levels our youth systems stops believing great players emerge magically no matter what coaching they receive, and until we appoint a good long term manager who is not constrained by political team selections and instead has imagination to look at all who are available, England will have no significant international success.

[Shush]

Absolutely naff all stopping young English players go to France, Spain, etc. playing for lower Ligue 1, La Liga sides or whatever, but do you think they'd give up their 5-figure weekly wages for a fraction of that, despite first-team football?

 

Works both ways.

 

Absolutely nothing to do with that.

 

It's the empire mentality that still pertains in Britain today. Everyone in Europe can speak multiple languages and can speak English better than most people in this country (UK) atm. We refuse to learn other languages and when we go abroad we expect them to speak English. This is also shown in our football, where we refuse to use new training methods and improve, believing our way is superior despite the results. They are too comfortable in England. It's no surprise that Hargreaves was technically superior to all our mf playing atm and he didn't learn his football in this country. Spain has reached this level because of importing ideas from multiple nations. England continually refuse to look outside. It's more than football, it's a mentality.

 

[The College Dropout]

The answer is very simple imo. There's many players in the Championship that earn more money than a lot of players in top leagues around the world. There's average Premiership players earning more money than a lot of the 2nd and 3rd ranked teams in the CL. Simply too much money for mediocrity in English football. Then there's the like of Chelsea/City keeping talented British players on the bench to take advantage of HG rule.

 

If English players made up 70% of the PL, i'm not saying England would be world beaters but they would be much better.

[The College Dropout]

too readily available high wages for bench sitting players is a huge problem imo too, players get to a position that they may be decent enough for the national team, go to an interested 'big' club thinking (at least I hope thinking) they can break huge and also get the huge cash and instead end up bit part players. Sinclair is the most extreme form of this.

 

England will achieve nothing until it sorts out it's academy system (and making it easier for rich clubs to poach young talent was exactly the opposite of what was needed, thanks FA). Ideally with strong enough academies any kind of quota amoung the premier league would be academic as talented english players would be as good, but as foreign players are technically better and cheaper this is unlikely to happen anytime soon, albeit the premier league is losing some of it's pull it seems so maybe within a few years it will need to look at it's own more.

 

Until at all levels our youth systems stops believing great players emerge magically no matter what coaching they receive, and until we appoint a good long term manager who is not constrained by political team selections and instead has imagination to look at all who are available, England will have no significant international success.

 

Don't think the Prem is losing any appeal. There's stiffer competition from such other rich clubs but the average PL club (Newcastle) can pay higher wages than 75% of teams in France, Spain, Holland, Portugal etc.

[Guest]

The answer is very simple imo. There's many players in the Championship that earn more money than a lot of players in top leagues around the world. There's average Premiership players earning more money than a lot of the 2nd and 3rd ranked teams in the CL. Simply too much money for mediocrity in English football. Then there's the like of Chelsea/City keeping talented British players on the bench to take advantage of HG rule.

 

If English players made up 70% of the PL, i'm not saying England would be world beaters but they would be much better.

 

How many English players were in the league between 1991 & 1995, where we failed to get out of a group and didn't even make a World Cup?

[Tiresias]

too readily available high wages for bench sitting players is a huge problem imo too, players get to a position that they may be decent enough for the national team, go to an interested 'big' club thinking (at least I hope thinking) they can break huge and also get the huge cash and instead end up bit part players. Sinclair is the most extreme form of this.

 

England will achieve nothing until it sorts out it's academy system (and making it easier for rich clubs to poach young talent was exactly the opposite of what was needed, thanks FA). Ideally with strong enough academies any kind of quota amoung the premier league would be academic as talented english players would be as good, but as foreign players are technically better and cheaper this is unlikely to happen anytime soon, albeit the premier league is losing some of it's pull it seems so maybe within a few years it will need to look at it's own more.

 

Until at all levels our youth systems stops believing great players emerge magically no matter what coaching they receive, and until we appoint a good long term manager who is not constrained by political team selections and instead has imagination to look at all who are available, England will have no significant international success.

 

Don't think the Prem is losing any appeal. There's stiffer competition from such other rich clubs but the average PL club (Newcastle) can pay higher wages than 75% of teams in France, Spain, Holland, Portugal etc.

 

fair point i guess, but i think the broad trend of investment in leagues outside the premier league will see this change over the coming decade more.

[Tiresias]

it all comes down to not good enough players, not good enough environment to generate good players, not good enough management and not good enough environment for management to have any effect

[maybe_next_year]

Our system is pretty much a shambles from top to bottom, from the lack of coaches at grass roots level and its over fixation on results, to talented youngsters being able to be picked up by the top clubs for a pittance only to never see the playing time they need to delevop, assuming any player manages to avoid this, they might go on to have a decent season, show a lot of potential and again, be picked up by one of the top clubs only to spend their time on the bench.

 

Then you have the problem of the best talented players being picked for the England u21s, who have recently relplaced a dinosaur with another one, there has never seemed any consistancy with tactics and ideas with the England squad, it almost feels like an entirely different team, when its main goal should be to prepare players to make the step up.

 

The worst part though is that, despite it already being an utter farce, the FA, being the FA, will undoubtedly find a way to make things even worse, I mean Greg Dyke is Chairman, a bloke who supports Brenford AND Manchester United ffs! and whos only links to the game seem to be having been on the board of both, hardly a fitting CV for the person seemingly in charge of fixing our deep and numerous problems in getting young english players to an adequate level.