Why does it matter that Barry Moat doesn't have billions?

[Cajun]

I have never said I wanted a billionaire, I actually said something like just because he is a billionaire it doesn't mean the club are now massively rich, he might not want to invest much of his money into uswhen Ashley took over.

 

My only concern is it will take a fair bit of investment to get our squad in any sort of shape to stay up in the premiership (if we get promoted). Our squad wasn't good enough last season and we have since lost 5-6 of the best players. There are probably 3-4 players in the squad I would be happy to have as first choice in the premiership, I know we aren't going to get promoted and suddenly buy a whole new first team of quality players but we do need some investment.

 

Will Moat be able to finance such an investment? I don't know (like everyone else) and thats why I have some concerns.

 

I have had concerns over every potential buyer but Moat is the one who really seems to be working hard just to get enough investment to buy the club (based on media reports which is all anyone has to go off), if we are such a cash cow that would be able to generate enough funds for significant investment why aren't there more buyers lining up to make some easy money?

 

I don't see anything wrong with having concerns and airing them, this is a forum after all.

 

[ToonTastic]

I don't think is so much a period of stability and not spending that we need. it's more a period of realistic targets. Our problem was each year under FS we had a chairman saying we're trying for the top and then throwing money at it for a few years till we had to reign back. In this time we no doubt had 4 different managers. We need to take the Bobby Robson approach. Get a good manger in who is backed for a good period of years. This year we look to go up. Next year we look to stop up. Year after mid table then Europe for a few year. Then finally we push for top 4. It's  the only way to do it. Simple targets and don't try and buy superstar players before we have a club ready for superstars.

 

Added the bit in bold. That's the key. If it was that easy everyone would do it.

 

Not so much, more capable. Martin O'Neil is currently doing the exact job at Aston Villa and was doing the same job at Leicester for a long time. If someone knows about football they can with time become a good manager.

 

You don't think £94m net spend in 5 years (most in the last 3) for two 6th place finishes is "throwing money at it for a few years"?

 

Spending 2004 - 9, unformatted columns are purchased, sold, net, per season.

<pre>

1  Manchester City  £292,750,000  £72,900,000  £219,850,000  £36,641,667 

2 Chelsea £267,950,000 £123,300,000 £144,650,000 £24,108,333

3 Liverpool £247,730,000 £134,080,000 £113,650,000 £18,941,667

4 Aston Villa £131,200,000 £37,255,000 £93,945,000 £15,657,500

5 Tottenham £249,000,000 £163,550,000 £85,450,000 £14,241,667

6 Sunderland £154,080,000 £88,900,000 £65,180,000 £10,863,333

9 Manchester United £188,650,000 £161,050,000 £27,600,000 £4,600,000

7 Everton £102,100,500 £78,200,000 £23,900,500 £3,983,417

8 West Ham £94,145,000 £71,325,000 £22,820,000 £3,803,333

10 Newcastle £120,750,000 £106,400,000 £14,350,000 £2,391,667

12 Middlesbrough £62,200,000 £54,500,000 £7,700,000 £1,283,333

11 Blackburn Rovers £49,052,000 £57,290,000 -£8,238,000 -£1,373,000

13 Portsmouth £92,200,000 £107,240,000 -£15,040,000 -£2,506,667

14 Arsenal £112,050,000 £138,320,000 -£26,270,000 -£4,378,333

</pre>

 

£19m a year ?? No don't think thats to much really and without looking sounds as much as we were spending anyway without any sort of billionaire owner.

[UV]

£19m a year ?? No don't think thats to much really and without looking sounds as much as we were spending anyway without any sort of billionaire owner.

 

It is a lot like. For them it's completely unsustainable. Pre-Ashley we were running at around £10m average. Obviously there's been inflation in player prices to go with the extra TV money, but their turnover finishing 6th in 07-08 was only £75m (£25m less than us). Back then their wage bill was £50m, but it must be significantly higher now, probably high 60's, low 70's. Their gates are lower than ours even now and they're unlikely to break into the top 4 in the next couple of years unless at least one of the big 5 have serious financial problems. Lerner's not going to keep throwing money at them, I'd be very surprised if there wasn't some reigning back to be done at Villa Park.

[Dave]

What do you make of the potential Moat takeover, UV? Not that there's a lot of info around of course.

[UV]

What do you make of the potential Moat takeover, UV? Not that there's a lot of info around of course.

 

Still not convinced it's anything more than an exercise in PR tbh. Even if true there's not much point in speculating until details are known, however if things are as we are led to believe and I had to be drawn on it, my gut instinct is that I'm not hopeful for much from him. IMO the amount of money required just to get us back to where we were pre-Ashley as a comfortable mid table club is more than the club can generate itself without an exceptional manager or a good number of years (3+) just getting by in the bottom half of the premiership and hoping to avoid relegation. Even the latter scenario would require a good manager, and I have serious doubts that Shearer will be a good manager let alone an exceptional one. (This is also in the best case scenario that we get promoted this season otherwise it's a whole other ball game).

 

It's one thing being able to be a self-sustaining mid-table-occasional-Europe team, and quite another thing being able to get back up there.

 

Having said that, anyone who will at least attempt to run the club in a reasonable manner and appoint a credible manager is preferable to Ashley, and worth the risk of future monetary problems. Unless they're mega rich they'll be bought out by someone else wanting to chance their arm within a few years anyway.

[Dave]

Cheers.

[Guest dover]

Why does it matter that Barry Moat doesn't have billions?

 

Stability thats why.

 

Because the games moved on, premier league clubs are now the target on the mega rich and eventually if we want to compete we have to have access to massive investment, which if Moats bullshit is to be believed at some point he will have to sell the club on again, and I for one dont want another season of uncertainty, another Mike Ashley dressed in nativity play clothes, another kick in the bollocks.

 

 

[Dave]

How many Premier League clubs have mega rich owners?

[Ronaldo]

I have never said I wanted a billionaire, I actually said something like just because he is a billionaire it doesn't mean the club are now massively rich, he might not want to invest much of his money into uswhen Ashley took over.

 

My only concern is it will take a fair bit of investment to get our squad in any sort of shape to stay up in the premiership (if we get promoted). Our squad wasn't good enough last season and we have since lost 5-6 of the best players. There are probably 3-4 players in the squad I would be happy to have as first choice in the premiership, I know we aren't going to get promoted and suddenly buy a whole new first team of quality players but we do need some investment.

 

Will Moat be able to finance such an investment? I don't know (like everyone else) and thats why I have some concerns.

 

I have had concerns over every potential buyer but Moat is the one who really seems to be working hard just to get enough investment to buy the club (based on media reports which is all anyone has to go off), if we are such a cash cow that would be able to generate enough funds for significant investment why aren't there more buyers lining up to make some easy money?

 

I don't see anything wrong with having concerns and airing them, this is a forum after all.

 

 

completely bang on. Beyond the defence, I have little to zero faith in our players being good enough to keep us in the premiership

[Guest dover]

How many Premier League clubs have mega rich owners?

 

Access to massive funds is what i said was required, Target of the mega rich is also what I said...

[Guest Dennis Carter]

Jesus Christ Barry Moat would have to be crazy to buy us. It seems that the only owner that would please the majority of fans would be a billionaire Arab Sheik born in the RVI...

 

Personally I don't care that Barry Moat doesn't have Billions and I don't think it matters because at the end of the day he has the clubs best interests at heart being a Newcastle fan and to be honest thats a million miles from where we are at the minute, so in my book it's a step in the right direction. We are not in a position where we can be picky over our next owner as Ashley hardly has people beating on his door willing to take the club off his hands.

 

As people have pointed out the squad needs a massive overhaul, so at the minute we need to focus on promotion / survival then once we are established back in the Premiership we can then look to move onto the next level. I'm not arsed if he doesn't have the finances to enable us to break into the top 6 straight away just to be able to play them again would do me.

[madras]

Jesus Christ Barry Moat would have to be crazy to buy us. It seems that the only owner that would please the majority of fans would be a billionaire Arab Sheik born in the RVI...

 

Personally I don't care that Barry Moat doesn't have Billions and I don't think it matters because at the end of the day he has the clubs best interests at heart being a Newcastle fan and to be honest thats a million miles from where we are at the minute, so in my book it's a step in the right direction. We are not in a position where we can be picky over our next owner as Ashley hardly has people beating on his door willing to take the club off his hands.

 

As people have pointed out the squad needs a massive overhaul, so at the minute we need to focus on promotion / survival then once we are established back in the Premiership we can then look to move onto the next level. I'm not arsed if he doesn't have the finances to enable us to break into the top 6 straight away just to be able to play them again would do me.

it's actually a canny risk. i'm surprised we haven't had more interest. how much of the money is his ? how much risk is he carrying ? and with a little more investment he could sell us as a prem club in a year.

 

ashley meanwhile could be thinking "i've lost over 100mill already,if they don't go up i'll lose more.

 

 

edit....canny as in crafty.

[Dave]

How many Premier League clubs have mega rich owners?

 

Access to massive funds is what i said was required, Target of the mega rich is also what I said...

 

It was a genuine question. Man City, Chelsea, who else has a mega rich owner or is being targeted by them?

[dcmk]

How many Premier League clubs have mega rich owners?

 

Access to massive funds is what i said was required, Target of the mega rich is also what I said...

 

It was a genuine question. Man City, Chelsea, who else has a mega rich owner or is being targeted by them?

 

Only one i can think of is the Russian at Arsenal who is slowly buying up shares

[madras]

How many Premier League clubs have mega rich owners?

 

Access to massive funds is what i said was required, Target of the mega rich is also what I said...

 

It was a genuine question. Man City, Chelsea, who else has a mega rich owner or is being targeted by them?

how much is randy lerner or ellis short worth ?.....even than that isn't the question. it's how much are they prepared to spend on the club ?

[Dave]

Yep. Sunderland have rich owners now don't they?

 

As do we...

 

Edit - Ellis Short = Sunderland

[Teasy]

Sunderland are one club who definitely need a billionaire owner.  Short would have to subsidise them to the tune of £40m a season just to have the same cash we have normally

[Village Idiot]

Fulham are heavily subsided by Dodi yet still manage to be very average.

[madras]

Sunderland are one club who definitely need a billionaire owner.  Short would have to subsidise them to the tune of £40m a season just to have the same cash we have normally

isn't that to have the same turnover. don't mistake high turnover with good finances.

[Teasy]

Sunderland are one club who definitely need a billionaire owner.  Short would have to subsidise them to the tune of £40m a season just to have the same cash we have normally

isn't that to have the same turnover. don't mistake high turnover with good finances.

 

No I'm not talking about the state of either clubs overall finances.  Rather the total amount of cash the club brings in.  Everything else is dependent on good management rather then billionaires after all.

 

Basically I was just saying that to match what we can normally spend per year in the Premiership (whether that's spent on wages, player transfers or whatever else), Short would need to subsidise them by £40m.

[madras]

Sunderland are one club who definitely need a billionaire owner.  Short would have to subsidise them to the tune of £40m a season just to have the same cash we have normally

isn't that to have the same turnover. don't mistake high turnover with good finances.

 

No I'm not talking about the state of either clubs overall finances.  Rather the total amount of cash the club brings in.  Everything else is dependent on good management rather then billionaires after all.

 

Basically I was just saying that to match what we can spend, wether that's on wages, player transfers or whatever else, Short would need to subsidise them by £40m.

thats turnover and you have to remember the ammount we had to spend to generate that huge turnover we had.

[Teasy]

We didn't need to spend £72m per year on wages to generate that turnover though, or spend £16m on Owen for that matter.  Obviously you should spend all the turnover (there's no point in savings in Football) but its how you spend it that matters.  While Shepherd was spending over £100m a year to get us where we were (nowhere) other chairman were spending half that to finish above us.  Do you think people would have stopped turning up if we were in Everton's position just because we didn't buy Owen or pay Viduka £80k per week?  If you spend £100m wisely it should not only be enough to keep generating that amount per year but enough to grow that revenue.

[madras]

Are you suggesting we had to spend £72m per year on wages to generate that turnover?  Or we had to spend £16m on Owen to generate it?  Obviously you should spend all the turnover (there's no point in savings in Football) but its how you spend it that matters.  While Shepherd was spending over £100m a year to get us where we were (nowhere) other chairman were spending half that to finish above us.  Do you think people would have stopped turning up if we were in Everton's position just because we didn't buy Owen or pay Viduka £80k per week?

well lets see if we go back up what our turnover is comparitivly and how much we spend to achieve it.

[Frazzle]

Fulham are heavily subsided by Dodi yet still manage to be very average.

 

He's dead isn't he? 

[Teasy]

We're going to have to wait a long time to see like, the 2009 report won't be out until January.  I'm just not seeing where the turnovers going to drop off significantly.  TV money will be the same (in fact it'll be £10m higher).  Our ticket sales are only down 20% in the Championship so I can't see them being much under £50k as long as we're in the Premiership.  Also Merchandise is pretty much linked to ticket sales.