Newcastle United Supporters Trust (NUST)

[Liam Liam Liam O]

If I was guessing I'd say his some of his loan of £100m has been replaced by some secured corporate finance.

[Guest Roger Kint]

Its a known fact, Ashley is taking money out of this club (and to be fair he can do, its his club, he owns it and he can technically do what he wants), the amount is the only thing that has been at question. When that withdrawal of funds however imacts the clubs ability to run properly ie last seasons transfer windows and the subsequent relegation then that is the fans business.

 

Link?

 

The thing is he can't do exactly what he wants. The only ways he personally can take money out is by salary or dividends. As far as anyone is aware he isn't an employee so can't take a salary. And he can only receive a dividend if the club has positive reserves and in June 2008 the reserves were negative by £113m. The only other way money could go his way is if Sports Direct are receiving anything for services provided - but that would need to be disclosed in the accounts so cannot be hidden.

 

That was kind of how i thought it worked, cheers

 

 

[quayside]

If I was guessing I'd say his some of his loan of £100m has been replaced by some secured corporate finance.

 

Well that begs the question as to whether Ashley receiving a loan repayment, in whatever form, is taking money out of the club - it isn't for me.

[jdckelly]

Im going to be unable to provide any real answers here because Ive been out of the main loop for the last couple of weeks due to personal circumstances. What I will say is that the £7m isnt a figure that we've plucked out of the air, this is something that will be coming out through other respected media organisations very shortly.

 

If it was down to me, I wouldnt have put that bit in the mail but we did and whats done is done, all I would ask is that when someone else reports the same allegation with the evidence to back it up then people need to backtrack on some of the stuff theyve been saying.

 

Its a known fact, Ashley is taking money out of this club (and to be fair he can do, its his club, he owns it and he can technically do what he wants), the amount is the only thing that has been at question. When that withdrawal of funds however imacts the clubs ability to run properly ie last seasons transfer windows and the subsequent relegation then that is the fans business.

first off congrats, now i appreciate your not in the loop atm but to state that your going to need substantive evidence to prove that

[jdckelly]

If I was guessing I'd say his some of his loan of £100m has been replaced by some secured corporate finance.

 

Well that begs the question as to whether Ashley receiving a loan repayment, in whatever form, is taking money out of the club - it isn't for me.

its not, hes given the club a loan to repay debts that were owed to banks from freddie and co time (he didnt have a choice but the fact remains he did so) and if he calls in some of that loan he is quite entitled to do so

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I can't believe, by any stretch of the imagination, that Mike Ashley has benefitted financially from buying NUFC. And the chances are he never will.

 

He's invested more than intended, found the club in more debt than he thought, put in more of his money and also probably taken a hit on the value of things like Sports Direct because of their association with him.

 

I bet if Ashley could rewind the clock and never buy us, he'd do it in a second.

[polpolpol]

The supporters trust is going the wrong way with its negative attitude. As the club purchase is clearly a pipe-dream, it would be better if they concentrated on more realistic solutions. Because of this amateurism and name calling, they have spurned the chance to be a powerful voice regarding the club. Bush / Saddam was brought up a bit earlier. If NUST acted as the Lib-Dems before Iraq: principled, measured opposition which goes on record, they would make themselves an authoritative voice regarding the club, which would translate eventually into influence in the media (a form of real power) and may make them - even without a change in ownership – and organisation which, down the road, would receive official recognition from the club (real influence). I wish their aim was dialogue with the club towards mutual benefit. Even the Ashley regime seemed willing to try this, before it became clear how supporter organisations were capable of saying nothing more than 'not this'.

 

Anyway, here's the problem with this opposition not in terms of (pure)power, but in terms of what Ashley wants from the club. I absolutely believe it is not money – or at least would not be so long as we don't obsess over it. What Ashley wants is to be – for want of a better word – mean, and his best way of realising how to effect this is to see what we are most knee-jerk in our response to.

 

At the beginning, Ashley asked us out on date,  bought us flowers, opened his heart up to us: it went OK. Our last date was a shit too, so it looked like a good thing at the start. But since then the situation has radically changed. As soon as things got bad, we dumped him, went screaming to all of the others – we literally told everyone else in school that he was useless and that we'd faked it – and withdrew from him. He couldn't have what he wanted.

 

But the crucial relationship here is power. Ownership of the club gives him a certain advantage in this structure. He loves us, we love the club, he owns the club. Instead of the reciprocal triad 'he helps club → we give him what he wants → the club is what we want it to be' we now have a breakdown in the structure. We hurt him → he hurts club → we get no enjoyment from club → he enjoys our pain. 

 

Ashley gets his excitement either way. In possession of the object or in a sadistic relation to it where he can hurt it. Remember, this guy doesn't want the club, he wants the fans: to imagine himself in our eyes as the hero, the boss, the head honcho. But under the current dynamic, I would think that he is enjoying the fact that he is pissing us off with his every action and yet succeeding in the league (despite the 'experts' predictions) almost as much as would have enjoyed a 'healthy relationship'. We have created the monster here, and given fuel to his perversion.

 

What am I saying should be done? Everything or nothing. Either seduce him again: get back into bed with him, stroke his hair and say “you were right all along big man”;* that or to withdraw the investment entirely. Stop attending, paying, care(ss)ing. Play a game of bluff, let the size of his asset decline to nil, see how much pain he is willing to suffer.

 

There's no dignity in going back to the man who beats you; even if you are screaming like a hysteric about it in public. NUST don't hurt Ashley with their confrontational, hysterical attitude – they turn him on. 

 

* ie form a supporters trust which tries to help the current board, even if that involves a bit of play acting from the supporters.

[Optimistic Nut]

Im going to be unable to provide any real answers here because Ive been out of the main loop for the last couple of weeks due to personal circumstances. What I will say is that the £7m isnt a figure that we've plucked out of the air, this is something that will be coming out through other respected media organisations very shortly.

 

If it was down to me, I wouldnt have put that bit in the mail but we did and whats done is done, all I would ask is that when someone else reports the same allegation with the evidence to back it up then people need to backtrack on some of the stuff theyve been saying.

 

Its a known fact, Ashley is taking money out of this club (and to be fair he can do, its his club, he owns it and he can technically do what he wants), the amount is the only thing that has been at question. When that withdrawal of funds however imacts the clubs ability to run properly ie last seasons transfer windows and the subsequent relegation then that is the fans business.

first off congrats, now i appreciate your not in the loop atm but to state that your going to need substantive evidence to prove that

 

The only thing lacking there is the use of "It is a fact that".

[AyeDubbleYoo]

pol, that's one of the best posts about Ashley I've read on here.

 

I still believe his worst quality was naivety rather than malice, that he really thought he could be 'one of the lads', go to games on a Saturday and make the club a success. Yes, he was an idiot to believe this.

 

The situation we are in now, he wants out but as a businessman he will try to wait until the best time to cut his losses. And as a gambler he will be prepared to take some serious risks in order to get a better result in the end.

[Dokko]

We should have a poll on what was more embarrasisng

 

(1) NUST's press releases

(2) The golf course dossier

 

(2) would win by a country mile.

 

On the whole the NUST have been organised, earnest and effective.  This is clearly a mis-step but it's a long term, well backed campaign amongst fans and the media.  Such clangers hurt them all the more having built up the level of momentum they have exactly because they're a far more well publicised and organised group than whoever knocked up the pamphlet on powerpoint that no-one outside of a couple of message boards has any clue about.

 

The latest in a long line to be fair.

 

And still they keep going.

 

Like the previous mistakes, I'm sure this one will not lose them all credibility as so many seem eager to insist will be the case. 

 

Lots of  impatient fans who insist on things being perfect immediately will hoy their toys out the pram and denigrate what has been the most succesful enlistment of fans into a single collective voice in my lifetime.  But there are too many fans that realise if it falls apart it's a wasted opportunity that nobody else will feel compelled to try again because there are too many naysayers.

 

The NUST is what everyone was crying out for for years so they won't call it a day because of one badly worded statement amongst many.

 

See, while my opinion is that a takeover could well be an absolute disaster now (though with the right leadership the idea still excites me tbh ), I always supported the idea of of some seriously improved channels of communication with the club that all supporters can feel part of but. But right from the start this group started out with childish threats and insults, and still can't wipe the chips from their collective shoulders and move on from the playground politics.

 

While I've continued to be cynical, I have been impressed by some of their achievements, and genuinely wanted them to demand respect and credibility (to keep making mistakes like this I can't help feeling (silly I know) reflects not only badly on themselves, but all of us who support the club), which is why shit like this is just so sodding irritating.

 

It is.

 

Whenever I speak to anyone in the NUST they're always passionate about encouraging as many people as possible to join and make their voice heard.  It's unfortunate if the 'chip on your shoulder' effect sometimes comes across because, unfortunately, as non-members they're speaking for you.  Don't even join up, just go to a roadshow and tell them what they're doing wrong.  they're as receptive to criticism as they are encouragement.

 

I'd be interested in doing that, where and when?

 

Thu, 21 January, 19:30 – 23:00

Wallsend Labour Club & Institute, Camberley Road, Wallsend, NE28 0PN (map)

(This is a fundraising event for Wallsend Boys club and costs £5 a ticket)

 

Fri, 22 January, 19:30 – 23:00

The Alexandra Pub, Queen Alexandra Rd, North Shields NE29 9AL

Otr there's always the toon talk radio show where someone from the NUST is always on.

 

 

Might pop in and see what the criac is, give myself a more balanced opinion them. I'd like to hear what the actual organisers have to say to the crowds, put on the spot, not just carefully planned (or not sometimes) press releases.

[BottledDog]

pol, that's one of the best posts about Ashley I've read on here.

 

I still believe his worst quality was naivety rather than malice, that he really thought he could be 'one of the lads', go to games on a Saturday and make the club a success. Yes, he was an idiot to believe this.

 

The situation we are in now, he wants out but as a businessman he will try to wait until the best time to cut his losses. And as a gambler he will be prepared to take some serious risks in order to get a better result in the end.

 

[David Icke - Son of God]

I long for the day a sensible debate about NUST breaks out on here. There are far too many people who work themselves into a state of hysteria when anything vaguely unprofessional works it's way out into the public domain. Some of the stuff posted on here over the past 24 hours ("They may as well jack it in", "I'd rather Ashley than them" etc.) is just as cringeworthy as their last newsletter.

 

And before I'm pigeonholed as an unquestioning NUST minion (as I have been before) I would like to point out that I find the latest email completely laughable and I think they need to seriously take a look at themselves for publishing such a statement regardless of the validity of it. If there is truth in it then a comprehensive press release detailing all the sums, their sources etc. is a much better platform for it than a rogue, unsubstantiated sentence or two which is simply going to incite the masses. It beggars belief that they can't see that not only would such an approach shield them from criticism but it would present them as a safe pair of hands, especially as people are being asked to trust them financially. Unless these figures are then corroborated by others sources, regardless of whether they do finally present the fans with something that does make sense, they're going to look very silly. It's naive in the extreme.

[peasepud]

I long for the day a sensible debate about NUST breaks out on here. There are far too many people who work themselves into a state of hysteria when anything vaguely unprofessional works it's way out into the public domain. Some of the stuff posted on here over the past 24 hours ("They may as well jack it in", "I'd rather Ashley than them" etc.) is just as cringeworthy as their last newsletter.

 

And before I'm pigeonholed as an unquestioning NUST minion (as I have been before) I would like to point out that I find the latest email completely laughable and I think they need to seriously take a look at themselves for publishing such a statement regardless of the validity of it. If there is truth in it then a comprehensive press release detailing all the sums, their sources etc. is a much better platform for it than a rogue, unsubstantiated sentence or two which is simply going to incite the masses. It beggars belief that they can't see that not only would such an approach shield them from criticism but it would present them as a safe pair of hands, especially as people are being asked to trust them financially. Unless these figures are then corroborated by others sources, regardless of whether they do finally present the fans with something that does make sense, they're going to look very silly. It's naive in the extreme.

 

And thats a fair point however it needs members, and plenty of them to get on the message board or email in and point out the fact, everytime I have pointed out something like this to other committee members then they dont see it because their mates in the pub, family members etc havent said its a bad thing and the members havent complained about it officially. They dont see it whereas I do because Im on these message boards.

[peasepud]

oh and cheers for the kind wishes, little un is doing a lot better today, still in Special Care but working hard and for the first time in a week they are starting to talk about him possibly coming out.

[Dave]

Great news Peter.

[David Icke - Son of God]

I long for the day a sensible debate about NUST breaks out on here. There are far too many people who work themselves into a state of hysteria when anything vaguely unprofessional works it's way out into the public domain. Some of the stuff posted on here over the past 24 hours ("They may as well jack it in", "I'd rather Ashley than them" etc.) is just as cringeworthy as their last newsletter.

 

And before I'm pigeonholed as an unquestioning NUST minion (as I have been before) I would like to point out that I find the latest email completely laughable and I think they need to seriously take a look at themselves for publishing such a statement regardless of the validity of it. If there is truth in it then a comprehensive press release detailing all the sums, their sources etc. is a much better platform for it than a rogue, unsubstantiated sentence or two which is simply going to incite the masses. It beggars belief that they can't see that not only would such an approach shield them from criticism but it would present them as a safe pair of hands, especially as people are being asked to trust them financially. Unless these figures are then corroborated by others sources, regardless of whether they do finally present the fans with something that does make sense, they're going to look very silly. It's naive in the extreme.

 

And thats a fair point however it needs members, and plenty of them to get on the message board or email in and point out the fact, everytime I have pointed out something like this to other committee members then they dont see it because their mates in the pub, family members etc havent said its a bad thing and the members havent complained about it officially. They dont see it whereas I do because Im on these message boards.

 

You're quite right.

 

I personally didn't send an email straight away as I assumed it was a typo and I know Optimistic Nut had managed to calm himself down long enough to pen a message. I was waiting to see what the response from that before I got on my high horse and started peppering the e-mail addresses of NUST. I will be dropping them a line this evening as sitting on here whinging is hardly the most constructive thing to do.

 

And congrats. Again

[Optimistic Nut]

So you were quite happy for someone writing on behalf of the NUST to use something which hasn't been proven as a selling point to joining them?

[peasepud]

So you were quite happy for someone writing on behalf of the NUST to use something which hasn't been proven as a selling point to joining them?

 

In what way do you mean? If you're saying we shouldnt have mentioned the £7m until it was proven then Id argue that we have clearly pointed out that its not fact and at this moment in time is "hearsay"

[Guest Roger Kint]

So you were quite happy for someone writing on behalf of the NUST to use something which hasn't been proven as a selling point to joining them?

 

In what way do you mean? If you're saying we shouldnt have mentioned the £7m until it was proven then Id argue that we have clearly pointed out that its not fact and at this moment in time is "hearsay"

 

'sources have told us that Mr Ashley is making up to £7m profit out of our club every month and whilst that's not confirmed - do the maths'

 

 

'Its a known fact, Ashley is taking money out of this club'

 

Which as close as saying its fact as you can get tbh

[Optimistic Nut]

So it's acceptable to use "hearsay" as a selling point? Even worse really.

[stozo]

To be fair that alone should be reason enough not to put your pension or cash in their hands. Anyone willing to use hearsay or unconfirmed sources when trying to get you to invest aren't worth trusting in my opinion. It's completely amateur.

[quayside]

Its a known fact, Ashley is taking money out of this club (and to be fair he can do, its his club, he owns it and he can technically do what he wants), the amount is the only thing that has been at question. When that withdrawal of funds however imacts the clubs ability to run properly ie last seasons transfer windows and the subsequent relegation then that is the fans business.

 

Link?

 

The thing is he can't do exactly what he wants. The only ways he personally can take money out is by salary or dividends. As far as anyone is aware he isn't an employee so can't take a salary. And he can only receive a dividend if the club has positive reserves and in June 2008 the reserves were negative by £113m. The only other way money could go his way is if Sports Direct are receiving anything for services provided - but that would need to be disclosed in the accounts so cannot be hidden.

 

That was kind of how i thought it worked, cheers

 

 

 

Had another thought on this. I had a quick look back through the 2008 accounts and was reminded that Ashley's loan agreement allows him to charge interest. He didn't charge any interest in 2008, but I suppose he could start to do so if he wished, and get his hands on some money that way. The rate is LIBOR + 0.5%, which at current rates tots up to about 1.15%, so its not big potatoes as such - certainly nothing like £7m a month.......

[Happy Face]

West Brom turned a profit of almost £1m a month when they were last in the championship...

 

West Bromwich Albion

Accounts for the year to 30 June 2008

 

 

Ownership Over 50% owned by the chairman, Jeremy Peace

 

 

Turnover (2007-08, in the Championship): £27.2m (up from £24m the previous year, an increase of 13% mainly due to increased parachute payments)

 

Gate and matchiday £7m

 

Merchandising £2.2m

 

TV and broadcasting £14m

 

Other commercial income £4m

 

 

Wage bill £21.8m (up from £17.4m the previous year, an increase of 25%)

 

Wages as proportion of turnover 80%

 

 

Profit before tax £11.3m

 

Debts £8.9m

 

Interest payable £91,000

 

Highest paid director Jeremy Peace: £625,000

 

 

State they're in This is the portrait of a former Premier League club pushing for promotion in the Championship, with the benefit of parachute payments, which increased by £4.5m during the year. West Bromwich carry little debt, have reduced ticket prices, and under Jeremy Peace's chairmanship do not gamble when they are promoted. Can be expected to be strong in the Championship next season and to yo-yo back up while still under the Premier League's parachute canopy.

 

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/jun/03/english-premier-league-debt

 

I find the refusal to believe Newcastle could turn any kind of profit this season strange with double the gate, advertising, pies, pints and strips while having (apparently) only £8m more in wage bill and non of the debt.

[jdckelly]

West Brom turned a profit of almost £1m a month when they were last in the championship...

 

West Bromwich Albion

Accounts for the year to 30 June 2008

 

 

Ownership Over 50% owned by the chairman, Jeremy Peace

 

 

Turnover (2007-08, in the Championship): £27.2m (up from £24m the previous year, an increase of 13% mainly due to increased parachute payments)

 

Gate and matchiday £7m

 

Merchandising £2.2m

 

TV and broadcasting £14m

 

Other commercial income £4m

 

 

Wage bill £21.8m (up from £17.4m the previous year, an increase of 25%)

 

Wages as proportion of turnover 80%

 

 

Profit before tax £11.3m

 

Debts £8.9m

 

Interest payable £91,000

 

Highest paid director Jeremy Peace: £625,000

 

 

State they're in This is the portrait of a former Premier League club pushing for promotion in the Championship, with the benefit of parachute payments, which increased by £4.5m during the year. West Bromwich carry little debt, have reduced ticket prices, and under Jeremy Peace's chairmanship do not gamble when they are promoted. Can be expected to be strong in the Championship next season and to yo-yo back up while still under the Premier League's parachute canopy.

 

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/jun/03/english-premier-league-debt

 

I find the refusal to believe Newcastle could turn any kind of profit this season strange with double the gate, advertising, pies, pints and strips while having (apparently) only £8m more in wage bill and non of the debt.

our wage bill is 40m a year by my guess and most certainly not less than 30m

[Optimistic Nut]

If we were making anywhere near £7m a month profit, we'd have had party after party offering £100m for the club without a moments hesitation.