what the hell goes on?

[Tooj]

Some people are only ever happy when they've got something to be miserable about. Fact.

 

100%

 

As for this thread, hopefully the horror of relegation has wiped all twattery from our squad(excluding Barton & Caroolll)  and we start doing things right

 

agreed.

 

whatever people say about shearer as manager, i do believe he was hell bent on correcting the deep issues that we have behind the scenes/

 

Said at the time we needed someone to rip the club apart and build it up again from scratch. I think Shearer, given enough time and backing, would have done this.

 

All academic now obviously like. We didn't go down that route and we are where we are.

 

Shearer was offered the job under Shepherd but didn't take it. I'm pretty sure he would have all the time and backing he wanted back then so why he didn't is a mystery tbh. Maybe he just didn't fancy it at the time.

 

Do tell...

[TRon]

Some people are only ever happy when they've got something to be miserable about. Fact.

 

100%

 

As for this thread, hopefully the horror of relegation has wiped all twattery from our squad(excluding Barton & Caroolll)  and we start doing things right

 

agreed.

 

whatever people say about shearer as manager, i do believe he was hell bent on correcting the deep issues that we have behind the scenes/

 

Said at the time we needed someone to rip the club apart and build it up again from scratch. I think Shearer, given enough time and backing, would have done this.

 

All academic now obviously like. We didn't go down that route and we are where we are.

 

Shearer was offered the job under Shepherd but didn't take it. I'm pretty sure he would have all the time and backing he wanted back then so why he didn't is a mystery tbh. Maybe he just didn't fancy it at the time.

 

Do tell...

 

Shepherd was pretty vocal in the local press at the time that he wanted Shearer to take the job at some point. It wasn't me writing the articles so nothing for me to tell.

[Tooj]

Some people are only ever happy when they've got something to be miserable about. Fact.

 

100%

 

As for this thread, hopefully the horror of relegation has wiped all twattery from our squad(excluding Barton & Caroolll)  and we start doing things right

 

agreed.

 

whatever people say about shearer as manager, i do believe he was hell bent on correcting the deep issues that we have behind the scenes/

 

Said at the time we needed someone to rip the club apart and build it up again from scratch. I think Shearer, given enough time and backing, would have done this.

 

All academic now obviously like. We didn't go down that route and we are where we are.

 

Shearer was offered the job under Shepherd but didn't take it. I'm pretty sure he would have all the time and backing he wanted back then so why he didn't is a mystery tbh. Maybe he just didn't fancy it at the time.

 

Do tell...

 

Shepherd was pretty vocal in the local press at the time that he wanted Shearer to take the job at some point. It wasn't me writing the articles so nothing for me to tell.

 

So he wasn't offered the job then?

[dcmk]

Some people are only ever happy when they've got something to be miserable about. Fact.

 

100%

 

As for this thread, hopefully the horror of relegation has wiped all twattery from our squad(excluding Barton & Caroolll)  and we start doing things right

 

agreed.

 

whatever people say about shearer as manager, i do believe he was hell bent on correcting the deep issues that we have behind the scenes/

 

Said at the time we needed someone to rip the club apart and build it up again from scratch. I think Shearer, given enough time and backing, would have done this.

 

All academic now obviously like. We didn't go down that route and we are where we are.

 

Shearer was offered the job under Shepherd but didn't take it. I'm pretty sure he would have all the time and backing he wanted back then so why he didn't is a mystery tbh. Maybe he just didn't fancy it at the time.

 

Do tell...

 

Shepherd was pretty vocal in the local press at the time that he wanted Shearer to take the job at some point. It wasn't me writing the articles so nothing for me to tell.

 

So he wasn't offered the job then?

 

'was offered the job under Shepherd but didn't take it'

'Shepherd was pretty vocal in the local press'

 

FFS

[themanupstairs]

There's only one reason, it's all down to the management of the players, and we've had terrible managers since Bobby. And for this we can mostly blame Shepherd

 

shhhhh the Shepherd arse-lickers may hear you 

[ohmelads]

This is definitely something I thought about today while watching Carr captain a side in the top half of the Prem tonight when he was dubbed not good enough by a vast majority of our fans. 

 

What I find interesting while reading through this thread is the reluctance to blame any of this on the fans of our club, and when someone has brought it up, I find it odd that it's almost exclusively foreign posters (like myself) that see this as an issue.  There definitely seems to be a different type of culture surrounding our club that isn't as prevalent at other clubs around the country (from what I've read) - it's almost like there is some sense of entitlement.  I see it every day on this forum, everyone is very volatile when it comes to their feelings about a certain player but more often than not it's very negative and the negativity happens very quickly.  Also, players are given no where near enough time to acclimate to the surroundings of SJP.  We have to take into consideration the fact that we have one of the biggest fan bases in England and that has got to be very intimidating for a foreign (or any) player - especially when they go out and put in one abject performance and are never given the chance to get back into the good graces of the fans.  We have a lot of responsibility considering our numbers and passion, I just think everyone needs to look at themselves and see how they use that power.  We could be the best model club in the league but we are very very far from it.  This is not a place people are clambering to come play at - Premiership or not.

 

And just so we're clear, I am not blaming this solely on the fans, but there is definitely a percentage of this equation that involves the supporters of this club.

 

It's an easy conclusion to come to but if you live in other cities you realise we're not the only ones who target players who are struggling. I went to uni in Liverpool a few years back and they gave plenty abuse to their sh*tter players like Biscan, Salif Diao, and even in the season they won the CL, Traore was given plenty of criticism and cries of 'for f*ck sake' every time he dropped a bollock. Similarly many fans had little patience for Houllier, and prior to their winning CL run, the season they finished 5th, many fans doubted Benitez. The difference really was that they signed players that were both talented, cared and were injury-free and we didn't. Our better players like Woodgate and Dyer were never fit, while those who had talent and tried such as Bellamy were loved by most toon fans. Even Robert, who was as frustrating as they come, was appreciated for the quality he could produce. Most fans appreciate quality and desire and when we have a player with both we love them like any other club. Sadly Bellamy was utterly mishandled by Souness, Robert lost interest, Shearer retired, the crocks like Dyer and Woodgate missed too many matches, Solano became old and we were on the wane. These were the big factors that cost the club dearly, and the signing of Owen and a number of other flops at considerable expense rapidly accelerated our decline.

 

It's easy to point to the fans but while this club has 'broken' some players it has made others. If you look at players like Les Ferdinand or Ginola, or more recently Robert or Bellamy, their careers really took off when they joined us. Milner was not given harsh treatment by our fans at all, the mistake was probably in loaning him out to a rival Premier League club where he developed as a footballer, settled in and wanted to stay.

 

If you look at other clubs they give their struggling players a hard time. Lucas at Liverpool, or Pascal Cygan who was a joke figure at Arsenal, there are loads of examples. The difference wasn't the fans but the management of the situation. Getting the best out of your players, moving them on at the right time and bringing in the right players, is the mark of a good manager. If you look at my examples of players who exceeded at Newcastle they were brought in and managed by good managers.

[GuyP]

I'm sure I recall hearing Allardyce say when he was appointed that one thing he was aiming to sort out was the horrific record of players getting injuries and, in particular, recurring injuries. Obviously we never found out if he could do it, but he was certainly aware of the problem. It remains to be seen if it has been solved.

 

Well, as you said we never found out. But one thing that we know is that it seems like Chris Hughton has sorted it out for now. 

 

tbf, we did get rid of Duffers, Owen, Beye and Dukes...all 80% made of glass...

 

that being said, Beye wasnt injury prone before he came here...

[madras]

This is definitely something I thought about today while watching Carr captain a side in the top half of the Prem tonight when he was dubbed not good enough by a vast majority of our fans.

 

The plain and simple fact though is that he wasn't good enough when he was here. How he's doing now is irrelevant.

 

If it was just our fans who thought he was s****, why was he on the dole for 18 months?

maybe all folk could remember was his form at the end when he was injured and pissed off ?

[James]

Carr couldn't even be bothered to take a decent throw-in for us. Just trundled along, waited for all our players to get marked up, and then drop the ball at the feet of the opposition left winger.

[madras]

Carr couldn't even be bothered to take a decent throw-in for us. Just trundled along, waited for all our players to get marked up, and then drop the ball at the feet of the opposition left winger.

he had some good games, ones that he was never given credit for, thats the way it is for scapegoats.

[Teasy]

I wouldn't say it shows a leap of form after leaving our club.  How long had he been gone from Newcastle before he made it back into the Premiership?  His main problem at our club was that he was a fat prick.  I'd imagine his carear basically going down the drain after we released him has opened his eyes to the fact that he actually has to be fit to play Football.

[madras]

I wouldn't say it shows a leap of form after leaving our club.  How long had he been gone from Newcastle before he made it back into the Premiership?  His main problem at our club was that he was a fat prick.  I'd imagine his carear basically going down the drain after we released him has opened his eyes to the fact that he actually has to be fit to play Football.

as he says he was constantly brought back early. a reccurring theme it seems from our last few seasons.

[MKSC]

It really doesn't matter how many fans there are. I go and watch Hampton & Richmond Borough (Blue Square South, average attendance 600) and there is the same problem there. After 5 seasons of progreess including 2 promotions and two successive play-off finals (both lost) in the highest division they have played, the club started to attract new fans. This season has been terrible, a real danger of relegation. Abject performances from players, new signings that haven't worked, lots of injuries and a budget cut that has meant many players moving on, a massive lack of confidence. All these are contributing factors but some fans on the message board are blaming one or two players. These guys are being made the scapegoats for how bad the team is playing, whilst they are playing badly the factors I already mentioned are the reason they are struggling but fans will always pick on someone. Sometimes the manager gets it, sometimes the board, sometimes the players. It's just the way football goes.

[Interpolic]

It really doesn't matter how many fans there are. I go and watch Hampton & Richmond Borough (Blue Square South, average attendance 600) and there is the same problem there. After 5 seasons of progreess including 2 promotions and two successive play-off finals (both lost) in the highest division they have played, the club started to attract new fans. This season has been terrible, a real danger of relegation. Abject performances from players, new signings that haven't worked, lots of injuries and a budget cut that has meant many players moving on, a massive lack of confidence. All these are contributing factors but some fans on the message board are blaming one or two players. These guys are being made the scapegoats for how bad the team is playing, whilst they are playing badly the factors I already mentioned are the reason they are struggling but fans will always pick on someone. Sometimes the manager gets it, sometimes the board, sometimes the players. It's just the way football goes.

 

Their ground's right near where my last workplace is.  It had crossed my mind to go along to one of the matches, worth a visit then?

[MKSC]

Definitely worth a visit.

 

I've been going down there since I was a kid and all my kids have been practically brought up there. It's changed a lot over the last ten years as the club has progressed but it's a friendly place and in general the team has been very good for the last 5 years. Been terrible this season but like I said there are reasons behind it.

 

If you are in the area and want to watch a game then come down, I should be able to get you a free ticket for your first time down as my brother is the marketing manager for the club (technically he's the marketing manager for an insurance company but as his director is the chairman of HRBFC he kind of does both).

 

Students get in for concession rate, and season ticket holders for league clubs get in half price if they show it at the turnstile.

[leffe186]

This is definitely something I thought about today while watching Carr captain a side in the top half of the Prem tonight when he was dubbed not good enough by a vast majority of our fans.

 

The plain and simple fact though is that he wasn't good enough when he was here. How he's doing now is irrelevant.

 

If it was just our fans who thought he was s****, why was he on the dole for 18 months?

 

Quite. Us Spurs fans were happy to get shot of him when he left us, he had been going backwards for a while. Can't say if it was the injuries that were at the root of the problem but he certainly seemed to have something wrong with his attitude. I'd guess that the main reason he's doing well now is that he's grown up a bit and recognized his limitations, plus had a bit of luck with injuries.

 

Can't remember the OP, but did Talkshite have him as the best RB in the prem? Better than Bosingwa, Sagna, even Luke Young? Good luck with that, like.

[Interpolic]

Definitely worth a visit.

 

I've been going down there since I was a kid and all my kids have been practically brought up there. It's changed a lot over the last ten years as the club has progressed but it's a friendly place and in general the team has been very good for the last 5 years. Been terrible this season but like I said there are reasons behind it.

 

If you are in the area and want to watch a game then come down, I should be able to get you a free ticket for your first time down as my brother is the marketing manager for the club (technically he's the marketing manager for an insurance company but as his director is the chairman of HRBFC he kind of does both).

 

Students get in for concession rate, and season ticket holders for league clubs get in half price if they show it at the turnstile.

 

Cheers for that mate.  I'll definitely go along at one point or another - I've been on the website a few times looking at fixtures, prices, etc.  I'll let you know if I'm planning on going or whether I end up going on the spur of the moment and what I thought of it.  Thanks again.

[CaliMag]

There have been soem good points made in this thread and interesting contributions on the usual criticisms however...

 

Carr was absolute crap and it had little to do with injuries.

 

Running up the field during an attack an then watching as the opposition makes a counter has little if nothing to do with being injured. His positioning was poor at any level. He constantly put Bramble and Boumsong under pressure by inviting 3-2 attacks countless times because he would not track back ... or he would stay out wide letting his mark inside and then make accusatory gestures or faces to the central defenders WHEN IT WAS HIS FAULT.

 

While here he had a poor attitude, was overweight and overpaid. Since leaving us he has lost weight, realised he should actually work for a living and retired (at least once) from internationals making him slightly less crap... but still crap.

[gazza ladra]

Thank you CaliMag,

 

The whole revisionist spirit was getting way out of hand around here. Apologists for Milner, Parker, Bowyer, N'Zogbia, Cacapa all coming out of the wood work (I'm guilty on one account myself).  But never, never in a thousand years would I have thought I'd read posters defending Stephen Carr. He was rubbish. And while I'm usually game for gratutiuous potshots at Souness and Roeder, let's not rewrite history.