The old Chris Hughton discussion thread

[merlin]

Anyway, 'rarely create chances' is just idiotic.

 

How many saves from direct shots can you remember opposition keepers making in the past 3 PL games ?

 

4 on target v City (1 less than city)

7 on target v Stoke (more than stoke)

4 on target v Everton (more than Everton)

 

 

 

 

I ask again - how many SAVES did we force their keeper to make ? Come on, stop hiding behind make-believe stats that can be made to prove anything. I cannot recall the Stoke keeper having to make more than 2 serious saves in the game - EXCLUDING the pen.How many saves did Everton's keeper make?

 

Statistics could, if wanted, prove that a clearance by Krul was an 'attempt' on goal - doesn't mean he has  a cat in hell's chance of scoring, does it?

 

Unless we are forcing opposition keepers to save shots, we are NOT threatening their goal - defenders are there to block goal attempts, goal keepers are the last line.

 

If you believe these stats, can you pls list the saves made by the keepers - and from whom - in the games you have listed ?

 

Surely you're not that stupid. Shots on target -  number of goals scored = number of saves

 

Can you read ? I asked you to name the player who had the shots saved...what does 'number of goals scored; have to do with anything ? We scored ONE against Everton, ONE against Stoke(a pen) and ONE against City...how is this related to SAVES by opposition keepers ?

[Ronaldo]

thought we passed the ball around well today, Ronaldo...

 

We did in the first half, certainly. Sadly half-time included a team-talk, again.

Yeah from City, who came out a much better side. Do you seriously expect us to outplay Man City away from home for 90 minutes?

 

No, but making it easier for them wasn't ideal, funnily enough.

In which way did we make it easier for them? By dropping our high-line?

 

Did you even watch the first half? They could have been about 4 up if Milner could cross a f***ing ball

 

What's that got to do with it? We were dominating the game from bout the 20th to 45th minute. We came out and with no intention of keeping the ball in the same manner and were beaten partially because of that.

 

 

[Disco]

Anyway, 'rarely create chances' is just idiotic.

 

How many saves from direct shots can you remember opposition keepers making in the past 3 PL games ?

 

4 on target v City (1 less than city)

7 on target v Stoke (more than stoke)

4 on target v Everton (more than Everton)

 

 

 

 

I ask again - how many SAVES did we force their keeper to make ? Come on, stop hiding behind make-believe stats that can be made to prove anything. I cannot recall the Stoke keeper having to make more than 2 serious saves in the game - EXCLUDING the pen.How many saves did Everton's keeper make?

 

Statistics could, if wanted, prove that a clearance by Krul was an 'attempt' on goal - doesn't mean he has a cat in hell's chance of scoring, does it?

 

Unless we are forcing opposition keepers to save shots, we are NOT threatening their goal - defenders are there to block goal attempts, goal keepers are the last line.

 

If you believe these stats, can you pls list the saves made by the keepers - and from whom - in the games you have listed ?

 

Surely you're not that stupid. Shots on target - number of goals scored = number of saves

 

Can you read ? I asked you to name the player who had the shots saved...what does 'number of goals scored; have to do with anything ? We scored ONE against Everton, ONE against Stoke(a pen) and ONE against City...how is this related to SAVES by opposition keepers ?

 

You also asked the question that i have answered. TBH I can't remember who had shots as I don't have a hard-drive for a memory unfortunately.

[Dave]

As I mentioned before, surely a shot heading towards the target but blocked or deflected away by a defender is classed as a 'shot on target'. Think it is anyway.

 

So those stats don't necessarily tell you how many saves we forced.

[Disco]

Are you expecting us to be creating f*** loads of easy chances against those three teams like? Arguably three of the more organised defensive set ups in the league

 

IF you wish to stay in the PL, the answer is YES, you DO have to create ENOUGH chances against all but the best sides - we are NOT. You may think Stoke are the UK answer to Catenaccio but I don't ; they are a physical side who we would have blown away in the mid-90s.

 

Are you a spin doctor?

------

and what the hell has that got to do with anything?

[Hanshithispantz]

thought we passed the ball around well today, Ronaldo...

 

We did in the first half, certainly. Sadly half-time included a team-talk, again.

Yeah from City, who came out a much better side. Do you seriously expect us to outplay Man City away from home for 90 minutes?

 

No, but making it easier for them wasn't ideal, funnily enough.

In which way did we make it easier for them? By dropping our high-line?

 

Did you even watch the first half? They could have been about 4 up if Milner could cross a f***ing ball

 

What's that got to do with it? We were dominating the game from bout the 20th to 45th minute. We came out and with no intention of keeping the ball in the same manner and were beaten partially because of that.

 

 

It's very rare a team who dominates the game in the first half (especialy the underdog) comes out and does the same in the second, hense the phrase "they dont want the whistle to blow". We we're playing a squad of world cup internationals, there 2nd half dominance was much down to them coming out a better side than it was Hughton just letting them dominate us, what a gentleman.

[Hanshithispantz]

As I mentioned before, surely a shot heading towards the target but blocked or deflected away by a defender is classed as a 'shot on target'. Think it is anyway.

 

So those stats don't necessarily tell you how many saves we forced.

They usualy classes as "shots blocked". They are on the SS website anyway.

[Guest Roger Kint]

As I mentioned before, surely a shot heading towards the target but blocked or deflected away by a defender is classed as a 'shot on target'. Think it is anyway.

 

So those stats don't necessarily tell you how many saves we forced.

 

The 7 v Stoke included 2 blocked iirc

[merlin]

Are you expecting us to be creating f*** loads of easy chances against those three teams like? Arguably three of the more organised defensive set ups in the league

 

IF you wish to stay in the PL, the answer is YES, you DO have to create ENOUGH chances against all but the best sides - we are NOT. You may think Stoke are the UK answer to Catenaccio but I don't ; they are a physical side who we would have blown away in the mid-90s.

 

Are you a spin doctor?

------

and what the hell has that got to do with anything?

 

You really are struggling now, aren't you ? A Spin Doctor ? On what planet do you live ? Spin Doctors are people employed by New Labour ; I thought this was a football forum.....do you know what Catenaccio is(or was ?), Probably not because you are too young, but it was the art of defensive football perfected by Inter Milan in the 60's/70s- believe me, Stoke are NO Inter and if you can't see that instead of bigging them up to be a team we should be glad to squeeze a narrow defeat from, then its no wonder that people think the fans of this club are easily conned  - you bring low expectation down to a new level - congratulations !

[merlin]

As I mentioned before, surely a shot heading towards the target but blocked or deflected away by a defender is classed as a 'shot on target'. Think it is anyway.

 

So those stats don't necessarily tell you how many saves we forced.

They usualy classes as "shots blocked". They are on the SS website anyway.

 

Well done - does that mean 'NEARLY a goal, VERY nearly a goal, or just that the person making the shot was too slow to get past the defender...!?

Lies, Damned lies - then Statisitics ; Stoke - we LOST, Blackpool, LOST, Man C LOST - those are the facts,nothing will change them.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

As I mentioned before, surely a shot heading towards the target but blocked or deflected away by a defender is classed as a 'shot on target'. Think it is anyway.

 

So those stats don't necessarily tell you how many saves we forced.

They usualy classes as "shots blocked". They are on the SS website anyway.

 

Well done - does that mean 'NEARLY a goal, VERY nearly a goal, or just that the person making the shot was too slow to get past the defender...!?

Lies, Damned lies - then Statisitics ; Stoke - we LOST, Blackpool, LOST, Man C LOST - those are the facts,nothing will change them.

 

True, but surely results don't tell the whole story any more than statistics, do they?

[Disco]

Are you expecting us to be creating f*** loads of easy chances against those three teams like? Arguably three of the more organised defensive set ups in the league

 

IF you wish to stay in the PL, the answer is YES, you DO have to create ENOUGH chances against all but the best sides - we are NOT. You may think Stoke are the UK answer to Catenaccio but I don't ; they are a physical side who we would have blown away in the mid-90s.

 

Are you a spin doctor?

------

and what the hell has that got to do with anything?

 

You really are struggling now, aren't you ? A Spin Doctor ? On what planet do you live ? Spin Doctors are people employed by New Labour ; I thought this was a football forum.....do you know what Catenaccio is(or was ?), Probably not because you are too young, but it was the art of defensive football perfected by Inter Milan in the 60's/70s- believe me, Stoke are NO Inter and if you can't see that instead of bigging them up to be a team we should be glad to squeeze a narrow defeat from, then its no wonder that people think the fans of this club are easily conned - you bring low expectation down to a new level - congratulations !

 

 

If you could point out where I said Stoke were the equivliant of Catenaccio and also please remind me where did i say the part highlighted because I'm fairly certain I didn't. And like a spin doctor you've taken what I said and twisted it further than I could have imagined to fit your agenda.

 

 

 

[Mick]

Hughton doesn't deserve too much stick because of the way we played yesterday, I though that he got most things right and deserves a bit of slack.

[Cajun]

Hughton doesn't deserve too much stick because of the way we played yesterday, I though that he got most things right and deserves a bit of slack.

 

If the ref wasn't so inept we would have got at least a point (but probably won), away to Manchester City that would have been a very good result.

 

Obviously he didn't get everything right but I can't see how he can get any stick for yesterdays game.

[Skeletor]

I'd give him a stick to beat Martin Atkinson to death with.

[ChezGiven]

That doesn't come close to telling the story. Clear-cut chances have been rare, so far.

Doesnt come close to telling the story you want to tell but those stats back up what i said. That our performances are decent and we are creating equal if not more chances than the opposition. We were about as bad as we have been all season second half against Stoke but even then we created a clear cut chance that should have got the equaliser. Anyway, if ohmelads sees it my way, thats all i need to know.

 

And lovely to see merlin making a tit of himself as he was trying to be a contrary mary with me. What sort of idiot berates someone for using statistics in one sentence and demands statistics on the numbers of saves against us in the next? What a tit.

[Hanshithispantz]

As I mentioned before, surely a shot heading towards the target but blocked or deflected away by a defender is classed as a 'shot on target'. Think it is anyway.

 

So those stats don't necessarily tell you how many saves we forced.

They usualy classes as "shots blocked". They are on the SS website anyway.

 

Well done - does that mean 'NEARLY a goal, VERY nearly a goal, or just that the person making the shot was too slow to get past the defender...!?

Lies, Damned lies - then Statisitics ; Stoke - we LOST, Blackpool, LOST, Man C LOST - those are the facts,nothing will change them.

Probably the most contradictory post i've ever read.

[Jayson]

You really are struggling now, aren't you ? A Spin Doctor ? On what planet do you live ? Spin Doctors are people employed by New Labour ; I thought this was a football forum.....do you know what Catenaccio is(or was ?), Probably not because you are too young, but it was the art of defensive football perfected by Inter Milan in the 60's/70s- believe me, Stoke are NO Inter and if you can't see that instead of bigging them up to be a team we should be glad to squeeze a narrow defeat from, then its no wonder that people think the fans of this club are easily conned  - you bring low expectation down to a new level - congratulations !

 

You're actually trying to talk to someone about their expectation levels & you're moaning about us not creating many chances against a stoke side who had the 5th most clean sheets in premier league last season while we stand as a side who have just been promoted. Ofcourse thats irrelevant because theyre not Inter Milan, brilliant.

 

Then bringing up nonsense about how we'd have done in the mid 90's in another post completely bizarre illogical waffling.

 

Man city, Stoke & Everton actually have three very good defences believe it or not. Us not creating loads in our position really shouldnt be that suprising. We created more than enough against Blackpool & Wolves and should have won both games. Its more suprising that we were the first side to score a decent goal against Man city in the prem all season, with them having just played Chelsea.

 

Stop the overly negative whining.

[wormy]

Forget a higher level right now. That's the reason I love him, he's giving us stability. He's not dragging us down, and he's not building up our expectations for a massive fall, and that's why he's been so great in my opinion. We havn't got on his back, he hasn't been a monumental pig-headed fuck up, and it's worked well. In terms of us consolidating our position in the Premiership, I feel we're a perfect match

[merlin]

You really are struggling now, aren't you ? A Spin Doctor ? On what planet do you live ? Spin Doctors are people employed by New Labour ; I thought this was a football forum.....do you know what Catenaccio is(or was ?), Probably not because you are too young, but it was the art of defensive football perfected by Inter Milan in the 60's/70s- believe me, Stoke are NO Inter and if you can't see that instead of bigging them up to be a team we should be glad to squeeze a narrow defeat from, then its no wonder that people think the fans of this club are easily conned  - you bring low expectation down to a new level - congratulations !

 

You're actually trying to talk to someone about their expectation levels & you're moaning about us not creating many chances against a stoke side who had the 5th most clean sheets in premier league last season while we stand as a side who have just been promoted. Ofcourse thats irrelevant because theyre not Inter Milan, brilliant.

 

Then bringing up nonsense about how we'd have done in the mid 90's in another post completely bizarre illogical waffling.

 

Man city, Stoke & Everton actually have three very good defences believe it or not. Us not creating loads in our position really shouldnt be that suprising. We created more than enough against Blackpool & Wolves and should have won both games. Its more suprising that we were the first side to score a decent goal against Man city in the prem all season, with them having just played Chelsea.

 

Stop the overly negative whining.

 

When I have to take advice from the likes of air-heads such as you I will start to get worried.

Go back to the Fairy Land you usually inhabit because I have no time for you - I will not answer any more of your brainless posts. As for the 90s, you were only a kid...have you grown up yet ?

[Hanshithispantz]

You really are struggling now, aren't you ? A Spin Doctor ? On what planet do you live ? Spin Doctors are people employed by New Labour ; I thought this was a football forum.....do you know what Catenaccio is(or was ?), Probably not because you are too young, but it was the art of defensive football perfected by Inter Milan in the 60's/70s- believe me, Stoke are NO Inter and if you can't see that instead of bigging them up to be a team we should be glad to squeeze a narrow defeat from, then its no wonder that people think the fans of this club are easily conned  - you bring low expectation down to a new level - congratulations !

 

You're actually trying to talk to someone about their expectation levels & you're moaning about us not creating many chances against a stoke side who had the 5th most clean sheets in premier league last season while we stand as a side who have just been promoted. Ofcourse thats irrelevant because theyre not Inter Milan, brilliant.

 

Then bringing up nonsense about how we'd have done in the mid 90's in another post completely bizarre illogical waffling.

 

Man city, Stoke & Everton actually have three very good defences believe it or not. Us not creating loads in our position really shouldnt be that suprising. We created more than enough against Blackpool & Wolves and should have won both games. Its more suprising that we were the first side to score a decent goal against Man city in the prem all season, with them having just played Chelsea.

 

Stop the overly negative whining.

 

When I have to take advice from the likes of air-heads such as you I will start to get worried.

Go back to the Fairy Land you usually inhabit because I have no time for you - I will not answer any more of your brainless posts. As for the 90s, you were only a kid...have you grown up yet ?

[ohmelads]

There's no point getting bogged down in talk about saves or shots on target. If a winger gets to the byline and flashes the ball across goal but noone can get there to tap it in, it's not even a shot off target and there's no save, but it's still a glorious chance. If a through ball narrowly misses its man and the keeper sweeps it up, it's a dangerous move that didn't quite come off. Williamson's point blank header that just went over at the end is a huge chance, but the stats say a shot off target and no save. Football is about fine margins, espescially at the top level, and it's about creativity. Talking about statistics is irrelevant unless you believe in the Allardyce model of playing a percentages game and launching balls into certain areas and so on. It's a creative game.

 

I think on the whole we're doing alright, but I'm also worried by our lack of quality up front, namely the strikers. Carroll's not bad, Ameobi for all his flaws will have to do as backup. Xisco and Ranger don't get a look in either way and Best is a substandard crock.

 

I've seen enough from our midfield and defence to believe we can take points off a good few teams in this division and be safe come the end of it but much will depend on keeping key players fit and the strikers hitting form. Realistically, given Ben Arfa's injury, Ashley must open his wallet in January and sign a striker. Hughton said his transfer business was done but that was before Ben Arfa's leg break. We are a bit weak in right midfield too but the priority is a forward.

 

The only criticism I have of Hughton is his negative tactics at home. One striker up front against all but the top teams isn't good enough at home, we are the home side and most bookies would have us favourites in those games. Teams will get men behind the ball and we will dominate possession, so it's imperative we get bodies into the box for the midfielders to aim for. The performances have looked decent to be honest and fans of other clubs have told me the same. But in a game of fine margins like football you need the forwards who can turn a good performance into a good result and we seem to lack that at the moment.

[Mr Logic]

There's no point getting bogged down in talk about saves or shots on target. If a winger gets to the byline and flashes the ball across goal but noone can get there to tap it in, it's not even a shot off target and there's no save, but it's still a glorious chance. If a through ball narrowly misses its man and the keeper sweeps it up, it's a dangerous move that didn't quite come off. Williamson's point blank header that just went over at the end is a huge chance, but the stats say a shot off target and no save. Football is about fine margins, espescially at the top level, and it's about creativity. Talking about statistics is irrelevant unless you believe in the Allardyce model of playing a percentages game and launching balls into certain areas and so on. It's a creative game.

 

I think on the whole we're doing alright, but I'm also worried by our lack of quality up front, namely the strikers. Carroll's not bad, Ameobi for all his flaws will have to do as backup. Xisco and Ranger don't get a look in either way and Best is a substandard crock.

 

I've seen enough from our midfield and defence to believe we can take points off a good few teams in this division and be safe come the end of it but much will depend on keeping key players fit and the strikers hitting form. Realistically, given Ben Arfa's injury, Ashley must open his wallet in January and sign a striker. Hughton said his transfer business was done but that was before Ben Arfa's leg break. We are a bit weak in right midfield too but the priority is a forward.

 

The only criticism I have of Hughton is his negative tactics at home. One striker up front against all but the top teams isn't good enough at home, we are the home side and most bookies would have us favourites in those games. Teams will get men behind the ball and we will dominate possession, so it's imperative we get bodies into the box for the midfielders to aim for. The performances have looked decent to be honest and fans of other clubs have told me the same. But in a game of fine margins like football you need the forwards who can turn a good performance into a good result and we seem to lack that at the moment.

 

[TRon]

There's no point getting bogged down in talk about saves or shots on target. If a winger gets to the byline and flashes the ball across goal but noone can get there to tap it in, it's not even a shot off target and there's no save, but it's still a glorious chance. If a through ball narrowly misses its man and the keeper sweeps it up, it's a dangerous move that didn't quite come off. Williamson's point blank header that just went over at the end is a huge chance, but the stats say a shot off target and no save. Football is about fine margins, espescially at the top level, and it's about creativity. Talking about statistics is irrelevant unless you believe in the Allardyce model of playing a percentages game and launching balls into certain areas and so on. It's a creative game.

 

I think on the whole we're doing alright, but I'm also worried by our lack of quality up front, namely the strikers. Carroll's not bad, Ameobi for all his flaws will have to do as backup. Xisco and Ranger don't get a look in either way and Best is a substandard crock.

 

I've seen enough from our midfield and defence to believe we can take points off a good few teams in this division and be safe come the end of it but much will depend on keeping key players fit and the strikers hitting form. Realistically, given Ben Arfa's injury, Ashley must open his wallet in January and sign a striker. Hughton said his transfer business was done but that was before Ben Arfa's leg break. We are a bit weak in right midfield too but the priority is a forward.

 

The only criticism I have of Hughton is his negative tactics at home. One striker up front against all but the top teams isn't good enough at home, we are the home side and most bookies would have us favourites in those games. Teams will get men behind the ball and we will dominate possession, so it's imperative we get bodies into the box for the midfielders to aim for. The performances have looked decent to be honest and fans of other clubs have told me the same. But in a game of fine margins like football you need the forwards who can turn a good performance into a good result and we seem to lack that at the moment.

 

Fantastic deconstruction of the stats based bullshit too many people get caught up in, the part about wingers getting to the byline and getting crosses in which are wasted bcause no one is getting into the box (usually because they are too slow or lazy) is a case in point.

 

Anyway, this isn't the right time to criticise Hughton. Despite all the blows in that game against City the side showed plenty of character and fight, and that's to Hughton's credit. It might yet be enough for us to steer clear of trouble this season even if the fire power looks weak so far.

[Guest]

Yep, the Newcastle of 2-4 years ago would have wilted and lost that game 4 or 5-0 imo after an injury to the star player and a penalty they've felt hard done by for.