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The old Chris Hughton discussion thread

Parky

by Parky
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Posted
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Sticking Jonas up front and dropping Carroll to play deeper was an excellent decision and took a lot of pressure off us in the end.

 

Didn’t realize that, I thought Carrol was just helping out the defence on his volition but if that was Hughton's instructions, then he deserves credit.

 

I still think however that his main weakness is his inability to use subs properly and at the right time. He prefers to let the team work things out for themselves which can sometimes backfire (though in this case it did not).

 

2 specific instances against Everton

 

1) In the second half when Everton was dictating the game and attacking us in waves around the 60-75 minutes, he should have done something. Ideally putting on a more defensive midfielder in place of a knackered Nolan would have been good to add more steel to the midfield but since our only other ‘defensive midfielder’ is Alan Smith, he should have still taken off Nolan and put in Jonas or Lovenkrads. At the very least their pace would have prevented Everton's defence from moving so high up to join their midfield/attack and ease the pressure on us. 

 

2) In the last few minutes of injury time, when we were again at risk of conceding, he should have wasted some valuable time by making a sub. Even the Jonas for HBA sub seems more like enforced coz HBA was already limping when the sub was made.

 

So he deserves credit for having the courage to start both HBA and Tiote but he has to use his subs more strategically. We won but on another day his inaction could have lost us 2 valuable points.

 

 

It's easy to be a manager playing what if.

 

1) If Hughton panics and subs off Nolan at the first sign of pressure from Everton (which didn't actually amount to any significant chances in that period),  then he's not on the field to get what should have been a pen to wrap the game up, and he's not there to deflect Yakubu's shot onto the post. Would Lovenkrands have been there for both those incidents and done better than Nolan otherwise? Possibly. Would Gutierrez? Not a chance.

 

2) Everton are attacking and we're under constant pressure. Sub comes on & trots into box, not had a kick, doesn't know who he's supposed to be picking up, loses his man or has an adrenaline fuelled rush of blood and gives away a pen. 1-1, Hughton's fault for trying to waste 10 seconds.

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jimmymag

jimmymag

Posted
Posted

The biggest thing for me is the team spirit he's instilled into the club, seem like a band of brothers more than ever now!

 

I'm not sure Hughton instilled the team spirit, more like Nolan, Smith and Harper had some harsh words with the squad after last season's hammering at Orient and pulled the dressing room together, after encouraging the makeweights to fuck off.

 

I'm still not convinced Hughton is top class management material, but whilst he's got the backing of a united dressing room and learns quickly from his mistakes he's the best man for the job at the moment.

 

And the quality he's brought to the squad recently won't do his long term job prospects any harm.

 

 

 

 

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Cronky

Cronky

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Posted

Sticking Jonas up front and dropping Carroll to play deeper was an excellent decision and took a lot of pressure off us in the end.

 

Didnt realize that, I thought Carrol was just helping out the defence on his volition but if that was Hughton's instructions, then he deserves credit.

 

I still think however that his main weakness is his inability to use subs properly and at the right time. He prefers to let the team work things out for themselves which can sometimes backfire (though in this case it did not).

 

2 specific instances against Everton

 

1) In the second half when Everton was dictating the game and attacking us in waves around the 60-75 minutes, he should have done something. Ideally putting on a more defensive midfielder in place of a knackered Nolan would have been good to add more steel to the midfield but since our only other defensive midfielder is Alan Smith, he should have still taken off Nolan and put in Jonas or Lovenkrads. At the very least their pace would have prevented Everton's defence from moving so high up to join their midfield/attack and ease the pressure on us. 

 

2) In the last few minutes of injury time, when we were again at risk of conceding, he should have wasted some valuable time by making a sub. Even the Jonas for HBA sub seems more like enforced coz HBA was already limping when the sub was made.

 

So he deserves credit for having the courage to start both HBA and Tiote but he has to use his subs more strategically. We won but on another day his inaction could have lost us 2 valuable points.

 

 

It's easy to be a manager playing what if.

 

1) If Hughton panics and subs off Nolan at the first sign of pressure from Everton (which didn't actually amount to any significant chances in that period),  then he's not on the field to get what should have been a pen to wrap the game up, and he's not there to deflect Yakubu's shot onto the post. Would Lovenkrands have been there for both those incidents and done better than Nolan otherwise? Possibly. Would Gutierrez? Not a chance.

 

2) Everton are attacking and we're under constant pressure. Sub comes on & trots into box, not had a kick, doesn't know who he's supposed to be picking up, loses his man or has an adrenaline fuelled rush of blood and gives away a pen. 1-1, Hughton's fault for trying to waste 10 seconds.

 

Poor use of subs is probably the single most common criticism levelled against any manager. Usually, the decisions are tricky.

 

Nolan is good in the air, and that's very handy if you're under the cosh in the late stages of a game. Lovenkrands and Jonas are not.

 

Lovenkrands can't hold the ball up, and wouldn't relieve any pressure. Jonas is better in that respect, and putting him up front so that Carroll's aerial power can help the defence was a good idea. Hughton may well look to do that again.

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UV

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Posted
Posted

The biggest thing for me is the team spirit he's instilled into the club, seem like a band of brothers more than ever now!

 

I'm not sure Hughton instilled the team spirit, more like Nolan, Smith and Harper had some harsh words with the squad after last season's hammering at Orient and pulled the dressing room together, after encouraging the makeweights to fuck off.

 

I'm still not convinced Hughton is top class management material, but whilst he's got the backing of a united dressing room and learns quickly from his mistakes he's the best man for the job at the moment.

 

And the quality he's brought to the squad recently won't do his long term job prospects any harm.

 

It takes a strong manager to allow that to happen and still keep control, it's actually a very effective way of doing it if you have the right kind of leader in the dressing room, and hopefully the massive amount of evidence to the contrary is now starting to get through to even the thickest of heads that he is not afraid to drop "his favourites" when they are not performing. A weaker man would have needed to use his position as boss to stamp that out to make sure everyone knew who was in charge.

 

There's a long way to go before he's proven he's a top manager, but he's passed pretty much every test he's been handed so far. I've always thought he had what it takes tactically, he adapts but he doesn't knee jerk, but he's far surpassed my expectations of him when it comes to man management and getting the team to bounce back after a defeat or a bad performance.

 

I'm not convinced he has much to do with transfers other than saying the positions and type of players we need though.

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alpal78

alpal78

Posted
Posted

Sticking Jonas up front and dropping Carroll to play deeper was an excellent decision and took a lot of pressure off us in the end.

 

Didn’t realize that, I thought Carrol was just helping out the defence on his volition but if that was Hughton's instructions, then he deserves credit.

 

I still think however that his main weakness is his inability to use subs properly and at the right time. He prefers to let the team work things out for themselves which can sometimes backfire (though in this case it did not).

 

2 specific instances against Everton

 

1) In the second half when Everton was dictating the game and attacking us in waves around the 60-75 minutes, he should have done something. Ideally putting on a more defensive midfielder in place of a knackered Nolan would have been good to add more steel to the midfield but since our only other ‘defensive midfielder’ is Alan Smith, he should have still taken off Nolan and put in Jonas or Lovenkrads. At the very least their pace would have prevented Everton's defence from moving so high up to join their midfield/attack and ease the pressure on us. 

 

2) In the last few minutes of injury time, when we were again at risk of conceding, he should have wasted some valuable time by making a sub. Even the Jonas for HBA sub seems more like enforced coz HBA was already limping when the sub was made.

 

So he deserves credit for having the courage to start both HBA and Tiote but he has to use his subs more strategically. We won but on another day his inaction could have lost us 2 valuable points.

 

 

It's easy to be a manager playing what if.

 

1) If Hughton panics and subs off Nolan at the first sign of pressure from Everton (which didn't actually amount to any significant chances in that period),  then he's not on the field to get what should have been a pen to wrap the game up, and he's not there to deflect Yakubu's shot onto the post. Would Lovenkrands have been there for both those incidents and done better than Nolan otherwise? Possibly. Would Gutierrez? Not a chance.

 

2) Everton are attacking and we're under constant pressure. Sub comes on & trots into box, not had a kick, doesn't know who he's supposed to be picking up, loses his man or has an adrenaline fuelled rush of blood and gives away a pen. 1-1, Hughton's fault for trying to waste 10 seconds.

 

I actually agree with you, nobody knows the effect of substitutions for sure, it's all hypothetical. But I'd rather the manager try to do something when we are under the cosh then just rely on players to correct things themselves, even if by trying, things backfire if that makes sense. On the balance of things effective substitutions at the right time are more likely to bear fruit than backfire. Substitution takes courage and changing things around when things are not working is a hallmark of good managers. Moyes made two subs after 45 minutes to change things around, Mourinho would even sub a player off after 20-30 minutes if he was playing badly. Ditto with SAF, Wenger...etc, they use subs effectively.

 

Unfortunately this is an area that Hughton still has to work on imo. Against Blackpool he waited far too long to change things around and introduce HBA. Against Everton I would have liked to see him try something when we were under pressure and it was clear that Nolan was knackered. Sure the whole time wasting thing could have backfired but we've seen it being used so frequently that chances are it won't. We could have easily conceded two goals in the last 2-3 minutes (Yakubu against the post and Colo block on Feliani from what 4-5 yards) and were very lucky in that sense. Time wasting in all probability would have reduced at least one of those chances. You're right, if the last minute subs did backfire, some would blame him...I would have defended him though.

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Dokko

Dokko

Posted
Posted

Poor again tonight.

 

:lol:

 

Lucky to not have thrown it away, very.

 

 

 

We've just beaten Chelsea, man. Be happy with it!

 

I am, just worried that's all. I like him, I'm all for him, just his subs are starting to irk especially when 99% of the collective are thinking the same thing (about changing it, or not in his case) and he's not doing it.

 

 

 

 

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Cajun

Cajun

Posted
Posted

Jesus wept TT we just beat Chelsea at their fucking place. How the hell is that poor management? Ancelloti must be dog shit then because their starting 11 was much better than ours and they went 3-1 down. I usually avoid this place when we lose but if we are going to start slagging people off for doing something well :lol:

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