Lush Vlad Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Pardew basically has to rethink his stance about Ben Arfa. You can't just restrict him to just the number 10 role, you can play him on the wing when necessary - after all, his best performance in a NUFC shirt came from playing on the left wing. This. I'm all for changing the tactics when it isn't working, but personally think Pardew got it wrong leaving Obertan on. He was diabolical and I can't actually remember anything good from him all game. He's only played well for us away from home, his passing, crossing and decision making are barely at Championship level. Lovenkrands also flattered to deceive, showed the odd glimpse, but he's not a winger and just disappeared for big large parts. I thought maybe AP was worried about HBA not offering R.Taylor any protection, but he didn't get sod all from Lovenkrands anyway. I love Pards, but this Ben Arfa can't/won't play out wide is bollocks. Not working playing him in the no.10 role ATM, still lacking sharpness and the team have no idea how to utilise him effectively. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Haris Vuckic Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 He's played out wide loads tbh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledGeordie Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Playing out wide there's also less pressure on him to "run the entire game" so that if a play breaks down all the focus is on him. I'd much rather see his talent used to run at people or creating chances for two strikers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lush Vlad Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Playing out wide there's also less pressure on him to "run the entire game" so that if a play breaks down all the focus is on him. I'd much rather see his talent used to run at people or creating chances for two strikers. Exactly. He could also drift in off the line and would find himself with more time and space a lot of the time. Seems to be crowded out and marked quite well when playing centrally. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 There were one or two occasions yesterday when I felt that a decent pass was available to him, but he hung on to the ball that bit longer, looking for the absolute killer ball. It disrupted the rhythm of our attack. I'm not talking about knocking it backwards or sideways just to keep possession. It's great that he has his head up and looks to thread the ball forward. But he seemed reluctant to settle for the only moderately positive pass, if you get my drift. That's something in his head that he needs to sort out. Not sure it's as simple as that though. We want him to unlock defences, what if he's giving the average pass too often and misses the chance to develop the play and make the killer one? I guess I'm talking about striking the right balance between shifting the ball on quickly, which can have the advantage of keeping a defence off-balance, and keeping hold, with a view to beating the man or finding the killer ball. I felt on Saturday that, at times, he passed up the opportunity to play a quick ball that would still keep the defence on its toes, in order to look for something more threatening. It didn't seem to work, because his team-mates then seemed unsure when or if he was going to release the ball, and the defence had time to get set. I think it can be a problem for players like HBA, who can get past opponents in ways that other players can't. It's almost like they end up with too many options. I know that Wenger always monitors how long each of his players keep hold of the ball on average. He wants them to shift it on quickly and maintain the rhythm of an attack. HBA loves to keep hold of the ball and find the one killer ball, and it's something he needs to adjust in his game. Situations will arise where he can use his special skill at beating his man (eg against Man City, when he hit the post), and he needs to be a bit more patient. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Your all in denial "He doesnt have the relish for playing out wide" - AP Pards has probably begged him to play out wide......Maybe he asked him again at half time and he refused, hence being hauled off Heading for a January exit me thinks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lush Vlad Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Worst poster on the forum now wireside has gone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colocho Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 He's played out wide loads tbh. He has. Did well for Marseille on the wings - would come on and win games... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Haris Vuckic Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Seemed comfortable on left or right in addition to that too so we've got no excuses tbh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 I just wonder if it was part of us convincing him to sign permanently, the promise that we'd play him in his apparently preferred #10 slot centrally. Before he was injured Pardew mentioned a few times about building the side around him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Haris Vuckic Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 It's strange though because you don't often see a player thrive on the wings if they really don't like playing there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Would be nice if both Ben Arfa and Pardew are flexible about his position. The situation with the defence has made it more important that our best attacking players are on the pitch and if we can have a front six of Jonas-Guthrie-Cabaye-Ben Arfa-Ba-Shola/Best then you have to hope we've got enough going forward to get results. I don't think Obertan offers Simpson much more protection than Ben Arfa will, so this shouldn't be much of a concern. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Would be interested to know whether this "can't play on the wings" thing is really as black and white in the mind of Pardew and HBA as people on here make it out to be. I doubt it TBH, I just think Pardew thinks Obertan and Jonas are competent wingers and HBA operates better centrally. He's probably right IMO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Would be interested to know whether this "can't play on the wings" thing is really as black and white in the mind of Pardew and HBA as people on here make it out to be. I doubt it TBH, I just think Pardew thinks Obertan and Jonas are competent wingers and HBA operates better centrally. He's probably right IMO. yeah but remember the way things are taken on here where anything anyone says has to be taken absolutely literally in order to petty pointscore. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Haris Vuckic Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Would be interested to know whether this "can't play on the wings" thing is really as black and white in the mind of Pardew and HBA as people on here make it out to be. I doubt it TBH, I just think Pardew thinks Obertan and Jonas are competent wingers and HBA operates better centrally. He's probably right IMO. Yes but the progressive manager's mind has to be more malleable than that , you'll often see some of the best managers change things after 20-30 minutes in a game if something is wrong. I'd rather play a scarecrow on the left wing than McLovin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Would be interested to know whether this "can't play on the wings" thing is really as black and white in the mind of Pardew and HBA as people on here make it out to be. I doubt it TBH, I just think Pardew thinks Obertan and Jonas are competent wingers and HBA operates better centrally. He's probably right IMO. Yes but the progressive manager's mind has to be more malleable than that , you'll often see some of the best managers change things after 20-30 minutes in a game if something is wrong. I'd rather play a scarecrow on the left wing than McLovin. Quite unbelievable given the performance he put in and chances he created. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lush Vlad Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Lovenkrands was AWOL for long periods, put in a couple of decent ish crosses and played the lovely pass to Ba for the luiz YELLOW card. He spent a large part of the game trying to play through the middle and literally didn't help Raylor at all. He was poor IMO, but I suppose you need to try and justify how great he was because you dislike Jonas so much Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 ...and Ben Arfa Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Haris Vuckic Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Would be interested to know whether this "can't play on the wings" thing is really as black and white in the mind of Pardew and HBA as people on here make it out to be. I doubt it TBH, I just think Pardew thinks Obertan and Jonas are competent wingers and HBA operates better centrally. He's probably right IMO. Yes but the progressive manager's mind has to be more malleable than that , you'll often see some of the best managers change things after 20-30 minutes in a game if something is wrong. I'd rather play a scarecrow on the left wing than McLovin. Quite unbelievable given the performance he put in and chances he created. Any decent play from him seemed to be cutting into the centre, Ba did more work down the left than Lovenkrands. He was a liability and the reason Sturridge had such a free run of the game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lush Vlad Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 ...and Ben Arfa O no, he offers a fair, balanced view on HBA, we just only praise him all the time because we're fan boys. Didn't you know? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Lovenkrands was AWOL for long periods, put in a couple of decent ish crosses and played the lovely pass to Ba for the luiz YELLOW card. He spent a large part of the game trying to play through the middle and literally didn't help Raylor at all. He was poor IMO, but I suppose you need to try and justify how great he was because you dislike Jonas so much He created several goal scoring chances and was nearly constantly available out on the wing for cross field passes which he took well. He also had one Ben Arf'esque run in the first 15 minutes or so.... Forget me and Jonas, Lovens provided more threat down the left than we have seen all season. I dont care if its Jonas or Loven or Sammi but we need to attack down the left rather than defences just having to worry about Obertan or humps up the field. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lush Vlad Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Yeah, we just need to attack down the left and leave Raylor to fight for himself. He did wonders on marking that Sturridge lad out the game on Saturday and the result was class. Wasn't it you that kept saying how we should stick with our tried and tested formation, tactics and players that got us to 3rd/4th Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 ...and Ben Arfa O no, he offers a fair, balanced view on HBA, we just only praise him all the time because we're fan boys. Didn't you know? Some of us are just happy to praise him when he's done it, not before. The length of this thread surely tells you that the over expectation is ridiculous. Ive even been guilty of it myself when he's played lately but so far Im just longing for Best back. Unfortunately, its looking more and more like its not going to happen for him here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Yeah, we just need to attack down the left and leave Raylor to fight for himself. He did wonders on marking that Sturridge lad out the game on Saturday and the result was class. Wasn't it you that kept saying how we should stick with our tried and tested formation, tactics and players that got us to 3rd/4th All the goals came from the right btw not that it would be really fair to blame anyone for the last two goals when we were down to 10 men (and yes I appreciate was still on the pitch, but out of action). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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