De Jong

[mrmojorisin75]

I remember being pleased when Barca won the CL the last time as it was starting to look like the English physical / power game was about to start dominating. Hopefully that never happens.

 

Skill should always win the day and the people in charge should be making sure that happens via their enforcement of the rules. Broken legs won't keep people paying to watch the PL.

[Ronaldo]

English physical / power game?

 

What a load of tripe. We're talking about Chelsea, Man U, Liverpool and Arsenal here.

[mrmojorisin75]

English physical / power game?

 

What a load of tripe. We're talking about Chelsea, Man U, Liverpool and Arsenal here.

 

Yeah, I'm talking about Chelsea kicking barca off the pitch in earlier seasons and the run culminating in the manyoo/chelski anti-football nightmare.

 

Not so much Arsenal but the other two bullied their way through competition for a while. Fact.

[Ronaldo]

When did Chelsea kick Barca off the pitch? What a load of fabricated nonsense.

 

Neither Chelsea or Man U bullied their way through anything. They were the best defensively and scored goals when it mattered.

[Neil]

Can't remember much in the way of immense power/physicality/kicking teams off the pitch. Defensive tactics aplenty but superior opposition often won. And Liverpool, tbh, didn't bully their way through the CL. 2005 had a lot of luck about it but "physical bullying", no.

[mrmojorisin75]

When did Chelsea kick Barca off the pitch? What a load of fabricated nonsense.

 

Neither Chelsea or Man U bullied their way through anything. They were the best defensively and scored goals when it mattered.

 

I disagree.

 

EDIT: was having trouble there being able to type so before this gets out of hand what i mean is what Niel said really.  The hockey thing was about how they changed the game from negative to positive and this is what I meant.  I hated watching Chelsea (particularly) and manyoo in those years as they had big physical players (Ronaldo even) and would adopt a "stop them" attitude instead of a "go out and beat them" one against the top continental teams.

 

I distinctly recall that Spanish LB for Chelski trying to murder Messi and being sent of for it but that's just one of a few games they played.

 

I'm not on about a Bolton/Allardyce thing, just saying I'm pleased that after a couple of years adapting skill appeared to have won the day when Barca took the title.  Hope it continues.

[Hanshithispantz]

When did Chelsea kick Barca off the pitch? What a load of fabricated nonsense.

 

Neither Chelsea or Man U bullied their way through anything. They were the best defensively and scored goals when it mattered.

 

I disagree.

 

EDIT: was having trouble there being able to type so before this gets out of hand what i mean is what Niel said really.  The hockey thing was about how they changed the game from negative to positive and this is what I meant.  I hated watching Chelsea (particularly) and manyoo in those years as they had big physical players (Ronaldo even) and would adopt a "stop them" attitude instead of a "go out and beat them" one against the top continental teams.

 

I distinctly recall that Spanish LB for Chelski trying to murder Messi and being sent of for it but that's just one of a few games they played.

 

I'm not on about a Bolton/Allardyce thing, just saying I'm pleased that after a couple of years adapting skill appeared to have won the day when Barca took the title.  Hope it continues.

You mean when Chelsea absolutely battered Barcelona both offensively and defensivley for 90 minutes only to be denied by some pathetic officiating and ultimatly beaten by Barcelona's first shot on target?

[Canuck]

What year was the Chelsea Barca match when Mourinho had the pitch set up like a sand box and then re-laid it right after the match? 2006? They definitely played a physical style and negative tactics that year?

[mrmojorisin75]

What year was the Chelsea Barca match when Mourinho had the pitch set up like a sand box and then re-laid it right after the match? 2006? They definitely played a physical style and negative tactics that year?

Specifics allude but that all sounds right.

[mrmojorisin75]

When did Chelsea kick Barca off the pitch? What a load of fabricated nonsense.

 

Neither Chelsea or Man U bullied their way through anything. They were the best defensively and scored goals when it mattered.

 

I disagree.

 

EDIT: was having trouble there being able to type so before this gets out of hand what i mean is what Niel said really.  The hockey thing was about how they changed the game from negative to positive and this is what I meant.  I hated watching Chelsea (particularly) and manyoo in those years as they had big physical players (Ronaldo even) and would adopt a "stop them" attitude instead of a "go out and beat them" one against the top continental teams.

 

I distinctly recall that Spanish LB for Chelski trying to murder Messi and being sent of for it but that's just one of a few games they played.

 

I'm not on about a Bolton/Allardyce thing, just saying I'm pleased that after a couple of years adapting skill appeared to have won the day when Barca took the title.  Hope it continues.

You mean when Chelsea absolutely battered Barcelona both offensively and defensivley for 90 minutes only to be denied by some pathetic officiating and ultimatly beaten by Barcelona's first shot on target?

 

Yeah that season. Payback I'd call it.

[GeordieDazzler]

http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/sport/football/manchester_city/s/1344873_de_jong_furore_stinks

 

[ponsaelius]

Stupid twat.

[Darth Crooks]

'People can talk about two-footed tackles all day, but I have yet to see any footballer able to make a wholly one-footed challenge. Maybe Long John Silver and Heather Mills McCartney could do it, but I doubt even Liverpool would think of signing that midfield duo.'

 

What a fucking goon 

[Guest BooBoo]

Simply pandering to the readership. Most neutral reporters have called it for what it is- a violent, reckless and cowardly tackle by a renowned thug with previous for causing or attempting to cause serious injury.

[Segun Oluwaniyi]

I was just looking over De Jong's career and he hasn't had a red card in five years. I really have no idea how he's managed it. Amazing.

 

The talk of English bully tactics is nonsense, imo. Physical play is part of the sport. Not everyone is Barcelona, and everyone plays that style of football. It is one of the things I love about football, the various ways in which a team can go about playing. I will cry if football does what the NBA did, changing the rules to discourage physical play and encourage open attacking. It cheapens the game.

[Thespence]

De Jong was a OTT reducer.

 

Like me, Martin Samuel picks up on the reducer element:

 

Just like Hatem Ben Arfa's leg, rules are not meant to be broken

 

At least nobody claimed Nigel de Jong was 'not that sort of player', after the tackle that may have ended Hatem Ben Arfa's season. Brian Kidd, the Manchester City assistant manager, came closest to it, saying De Jong was as 'honest as the day is long'. Maybe he weekends in Reykjavik this time of year.

 

As we know from the World Cup, De Jong is exactly that sort of player. That is why Bert van Marwijk, coach of Holland and clearly still feeling pangs of guilt in the aftermath of the dirtiest World Cup final in recent memory, has now dropped him. He said De Jong needlessly pushes the limit, although he could equally have been generalising about the game in England.

 

We play a version of the rules over here. Roberto Mancini, De Jong's manager at Manchester City, said as much when we talked in his office two weeks ago. He said the referee never whistles in England.

 

Fabio Capello used the same phrase to describe the Premier League during his first year as national manager. Maybe after all those years in buttoned-down Serie A, the Italians find this liberating. Other countries have fouls, we deploy euphemisms.

 

De Jong is the type of player who likes to let an opponent know he is there. He gets stuck in and gives them something to think about.

 

 

A favoured tactic is the little reducer. That was what De Jong tried to give Ben Arfa after three minutes on Sunday, breaking his left leg in two places. The broken leg of Eduardo (right) for Arsenal against Birmingham City came early, too. The reducer strikes again.

 

Tony Pulis, manager of Stoke City, may think the biggest curse in the game is diving, but he is wrong. The reducer, and this unique version of the rules that maintains its presence in our game, is the real problem. Reading, for instance, have had three players sent off in as many matches but Matt Mills, the club captain, thinks referees are to blame.

 

He said: 'The Championship is physical and referees will have to accept that. If we don't do anything about this, it will slow our game down.'

 

No, the Championship is actually just a football league like any other. It is not operating off a separate code of practice, but the same rule book that governs every club from La Liga to the local park.

 

A foul is a foul, not a reducer, and there is no special dispensation. All De Jong reduced on Sunday was the career of a young Newcastle United player who looked to be a genuine addition to the worth of the Premier League. Maybe that is how we should approach it, purely as a business problem; because nobody seems particularly interested in applying the actual rules.

 

 

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1317980/MARTIN-SAMUEL-Its-good-talk-Fabio-Capello.html#ixzz11brZoI00

 

I had shocker C + P this but it is in the right order now

 

 

[Benwell Lad]

Baba- quite simply a load of nonsense.

 

Football can continue to bury its head in the sand but until stronger action is taken, we will continue to see the likes of Ben Arfa, Ramsay and Eduardo (players that make the game exciting) kicked to pieces by spoilers with no deterrent other than a piffling 3 match ban

It's not a load of nonsense, man. You all have gone mad. It's a bad tackle that has caused a bad injury. Fine. This is understood. People's legs are broken on the pitch all of the time. We can increase the penalties for bad tackles within football. This is acceptable It's the same as charging a racing car pilot with murder because he made a bad move that led to a deadly accident. This would be madness. Football is not the same as walking on the street, and there are inherent risks when you walk on the pitch. You don't call the police after every incident. That is literal insanity. The only way police could get involved is if there is an incident that is far separated from what is part of football. De Jong's tackle was not that. 

 

The game itself is "policed" by the referee, and the sport by the FA. They should deal severely with intended acts of violence which cause serious injury.

When they fail in their duties to do so, there is no reason why the victims should not turn to common law to obtain justice and recompense for loss of earnings/investment etc.

If this does go legal then it will be the fault of a very dodgy referee and an incompetent FA to deal with it properly in house.

 

I'm also fairly sure that if a F1 driver made a deliberate move that put another driver in hospital or worse then he wouldn't be racing for a long time.

 

The key is the intent behind the move, if De Jong and Ben Arfa were going for a 50:50 and their legs got caught together then its an accident. Mark Webbers impression of Superman in a car earlier this season was an accident.

 

However, De Jong went in to put Ben Arfa out of this particular game either mentally or physically. We've all been in games where the manager has said to rough up the keeper, or 'keep the little quick un quiet'. He went too far in this, it was a deliberate act and he should be punished.

 

Yes, but you could never prove intent on a tackle unless the player admitted it.

 

Err... isn't that what the process of law and the judiciary is for ? To decide if there was intent.

Do you also think murder, theft, fraud etc can not be proven unless the perpetrator admits guilt ?

 

If it hadn't been for a very dodgy referee and an incompetent and ignorant football association it could have been concluded already.

 

Deciding if there was intent and handing down punishment is the job of the FA (and FIFA). Tackling is part of the game. Should he have been punished - sent off, suspended, and possibly fined? Yes, yes, and yes. The FA and FIFA need to do a much better job of policing their game.

 

Does he belong in jail? Of course not.

 

 

 

Jail ? Are you kidding ? No one's talking about jail.

It's about justice and compensation for a pre-meditated act of violence which has left a brilliant young footballer with a serious injury.

De Jong earns millions a year. He is employed by billionaires. He commited an act of violence which should be punished accordingly.

Sadly the referee in question and the governing body (FA) have chosen to turn a blind eye to this rather than address the problem and confront a club owned by the type of people they now pander to, i.e. billionaires who think they are above the law.

If they are too weak to act then it should be taken to a higher jurisdiction.

[Ronaldo]

When did Chelsea kick Barca off the pitch? What a load of fabricated nonsense.

 

Neither Chelsea or Man U bullied their way through anything. They were the best defensively and scored goals when it mattered.

 

I disagree.

 

EDIT: was having trouble there being able to type so before this gets out of hand what i mean is what Niel said really.  The hockey thing was about how they changed the game from negative to positive and this is what I meant.  I hated watching Chelsea (particularly) and manyoo in those years as they had big physical players (Ronaldo even) and would adopt a "stop them" attitude instead of a "go out and beat them" one against the top continental teams.

 

I distinctly recall that Spanish LB for Chelski trying to murder Messi and being sent of for it but that's just one of a few games they played.

 

I'm not on about a Bolton/Allardyce thing, just saying I'm pleased that after a couple of years adapting skill appeared to have won the day when Barca took the title.  Hope it continues.

You mean when Chelsea absolutely battered Barcelona both offensively and defensivley for 90 minutes only to be denied by some pathetic officiating and ultimatly beaten by Barcelona's first shot on target?

 

Yeah that season. Payback I'd call it.

 

Betting better physically justifies getting punished with ridiculous officiating? You're bright.

[Thespence]

Benny L - Your only billionaire bashing because your mate Mike is meant to have £950 million.

[mrmojorisin75]

 

 

Betting better physically justifies getting punished with ridiculous officiating? You're bright.

 

I am canny bright aye, thanks for noticing.

[TRon]

De Jong was a OTT reducer.

 

Like me, Martin Samuel picks up on the reducer element:

 

Just like Hatem Ben Arfa's leg, rules are not meant to be broken

 

At least nobody claimed Nigel de Jong was 'not that sort of player', after the tackle that may have ended Hatem Ben Arfa's season. Brian Kidd, the Manchester City assistant manager, came closest to it, saying De Jong was as 'honest as the day is long'. Maybe he weekends in Reykjavik this time of year.

 

As we know from the World Cup, De Jong is exactly that sort of player. That is why Bert van Marwijk, coach of Holland and clearly still feeling pangs of guilt in the aftermath of the dirtiest World Cup final in recent memory, has now dropped him. He said De Jong needlessly pushes the limit, although he could equally have been generalising about the game in England.

 

We play a version of the rules over here. Roberto Mancini, De Jong's manager at Manchester City, said as much when we talked in his office two weeks ago. He said the referee never whistles in England.

 

Fabio Capello used the same phrase to describe the Premier League during his first year as national manager. Maybe after all those years in buttoned-down Serie A, the Italians find this liberating. Other countries have fouls, we deploy euphemisms.

 

De Jong is the type of player who likes to let an opponent know he is there. He gets stuck in and gives them something to think about.

 

 

A favoured tactic is the little reducer. That was what De Jong tried to give Ben Arfa after three minutes on Sunday, breaking his left leg in two places. The broken leg of Eduardo (right) for Arsenal against Birmingham City came early, too. The reducer strikes again.

 

Tony Pulis, manager of Stoke City, may think the biggest curse in the game is diving, but he is wrong. The reducer, and this unique version of the rules that maintains its presence in our game, is the real problem. Reading, for instance, have had three players sent off in as many matches but Matt Mills, the club captain, thinks referees are to blame.

 

He said: 'The Championship is physical and referees will have to accept that. If we don't do anything about this, it will slow our game down.'

 

No, the Championship is actually just a football league like any other. It is not operating off a separate code of practice, but the same rule book that governs every club from La Liga to the local park.

 

A foul is a foul, not a reducer, and there is no special dispensation. All De Jong reduced on Sunday was the career of a young Newcastle United player who looked to be a genuine addition to the worth of the Premier League. Maybe that is how we should approach it, purely as a business problem; because nobody seems particularly interested in applying the actual rules.

 

 

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1317980/MARTIN-SAMUEL-Its-good-talk-Fabio-Capello.html#ixzz11brZoI00

 

I had shocker C + P this but it is in the right order now

 

 

 

What I find shameful is that someone from our own club, Colin Calderwood has been quoted defending this thuggery while Martin Samuels who is supposed to be anti-Newcastle is saying what we are all thinking.

[Guest K9]

http://www.suite101.com/content/newcastle-demand-fa-action-after-horror-tackle-a293943

 

mates article summing up the affair so far

[timeEd32]

Baba- quite simply a load of nonsense.

 

Football can continue to bury its head in the sand but until stronger action is taken, we will continue to see the likes of Ben Arfa, Ramsay and Eduardo (players that make the game exciting) kicked to pieces by spoilers with no deterrent other than a piffling 3 match ban

It's not a load of nonsense, man. You all have gone mad. It's a bad tackle that has caused a bad injury. Fine. This is understood. People's legs are broken on the pitch all of the time. We can increase the penalties for bad tackles within football. This is acceptable It's the same as charging a racing car pilot with murder because he made a bad move that led to a deadly accident. This would be madness. Football is not the same as walking on the street, and there are inherent risks when you walk on the pitch. You don't call the police after every incident. That is literal insanity. The only way police could get involved is if there is an incident that is far separated from what is part of football. De Jong's tackle was not that. 

 

The game itself is "policed" by the referee, and the sport by the FA. They should deal severely with intended acts of violence which cause serious injury.

When they fail in their duties to do so, there is no reason why the victims should not turn to common law to obtain justice and recompense for loss of earnings/investment etc.

If this does go legal then it will be the fault of a very dodgy referee and an incompetent FA to deal with it properly in house.

 

I'm also fairly sure that if a F1 driver made a deliberate move that put another driver in hospital or worse then he wouldn't be racing for a long time.

 

The key is the intent behind the move, if De Jong and Ben Arfa were going for a 50:50 and their legs got caught together then its an accident. Mark Webbers impression of Superman in a car earlier this season was an accident.

 

However, De Jong went in to put Ben Arfa out of this particular game either mentally or physically. We've all been in games where the manager has said to rough up the keeper, or 'keep the little quick un quiet'. He went too far in this, it was a deliberate act and he should be punished.

 

Yes, but you could never prove intent on a tackle unless the player admitted it.

 

Err... isn't that what the process of law and the judiciary is for ? To decide if there was intent.

Do you also think murder, theft, fraud etc can not be proven unless the perpetrator admits guilt ?

 

If it hadn't been for a very dodgy referee and an incompetent and ignorant football association it could have been concluded already.

 

Deciding if there was intent and handing down punishment is the job of the FA (and FIFA). Tackling is part of the game. Should he have been punished - sent off, suspended, and possibly fined? Yes, yes, and yes. The FA and FIFA need to do a much better job of policing their game.

 

Does he belong in jail? Of course not.

 

 

 

Jail ? Are you kidding ? No one's talking about jail.

It's about justice and compensation for a pre-meditated act of violence which has left a brilliant young footballer with a serious injury.

De Jong earns millions a year. He is employed by billionaires. He commited an act of violence which should be punished accordingly.

Sadly the referee in question and the governing body (FA) have chosen to turn a blind eye to this rather than address the problem and confront a club owned by the type of people they now pander to, i.e. billionaires who think they are above the law.

If they are too weak to act then it should be taken to a higher jurisdiction.

 

I discovered today that a gateway to charge grievous bodily harm exists in situations like this, where despite being a lawful game with tackling allowed, reckless force causes serious injury.

 

Never mind writing to the police, The Club should be complaining to Greater Manchester Police.

 

A precedent should be set to deter these leg breaking challenges.

 

Find it fascinating that some folk think violent assault on the field of play, when it's clearly intended to seriously injure or maim another player as has happened here with De Jong on Ben Arfa, shouldn't be dealt with as a crime.

 

Of course it should. Footballers aren't above the law.

 

When you have someone behaving like that, basically being a thug, it's bordering on criminality in my view, and needs to be dealt with as such...or at least in a way where the player in question realises that he doesn't have some sort of diplomatic immunity from the justice system whilst on the field of play.

 

Totally agree. It was a criminal act and one that was I'm sure pre-meditated. The club should investigate legal recourse if that is possible (not sure it is or what the actual rules are).

 

You were talking about taking legal action to seek damages which is fine, but those saying it is a criminal act/should be reported to police, etc. are basically saying he should be tried for assault (actual bodily harm or whatever it's called over there). That's completely ridiculous.

 

Also you don't know it was pre-meditated and no one could ever prove it was.

 

Not defending De Jong by the way - think he's a thug and I think he probably enjoys injuring opposing players. It's his version of scoring a goal.

 

[Benwell Lad]

Baba- quite simply a load of nonsense.

 

Football can continue to bury its head in the sand but until stronger action is taken, we will continue to see the likes of Ben Arfa, Ramsay and Eduardo (players that make the game exciting) kicked to pieces by spoilers with no deterrent other than a piffling 3 match ban

It's not a load of nonsense, man. You all have gone mad. It's a bad tackle that has caused a bad injury. Fine. This is understood. People's legs are broken on the pitch all of the time. We can increase the penalties for bad tackles within football. This is acceptable It's the same as charging a racing car pilot with murder because he made a bad move that led to a deadly accident. This would be madness. Football is not the same as walking on the street, and there are inherent risks when you walk on the pitch. You don't call the police after every incident. That is literal insanity. The only way police could get involved is if there is an incident that is far separated from what is part of football. De Jong's tackle was not that. 

 

The game itself is "policed" by the referee, and the sport by the FA. They should deal severely with intended acts of violence which cause serious injury.

When they fail in their duties to do so, there is no reason why the victims should not turn to common law to obtain justice and recompense for loss of earnings/investment etc.

If this does go legal then it will be the fault of a very dodgy referee and an incompetent FA to deal with it properly in house.

 

I'm also fairly sure that if a F1 driver made a deliberate move that put another driver in hospital or worse then he wouldn't be racing for a long time.

 

The key is the intent behind the move, if De Jong and Ben Arfa were going for a 50:50 and their legs got caught together then its an accident. Mark Webbers impression of Superman in a car earlier this season was an accident.

 

However, De Jong went in to put Ben Arfa out of this particular game either mentally or physically. We've all been in games where the manager has said to rough up the keeper, or 'keep the little quick un quiet'. He went too far in this, it was a deliberate act and he should be punished.

 

Yes, but you could never prove intent on a tackle unless the player admitted it.

 

Err... isn't that what the process of law and the judiciary is for ? To decide if there was intent.

Do you also think murder, theft, fraud etc can not be proven unless the perpetrator admits guilt ?

 

If it hadn't been for a very dodgy referee and an incompetent and ignorant football association it could have been concluded already.

 

Deciding if there was intent and handing down punishment is the job of the FA (and FIFA). Tackling is part of the game. Should he have been punished - sent off, suspended, and possibly fined? Yes, yes, and yes. The FA and FIFA need to do a much better job of policing their game.

 

Does he belong in jail? Of course not.

 

 

 

Jail ? Are you kidding ? No one's talking about jail.

It's about justice and compensation for a pre-meditated act of violence which has left a brilliant young footballer with a serious injury.

De Jong earns millions a year. He is employed by billionaires. He commited an act of violence which should be punished accordingly.

Sadly the referee in question and the governing body (FA) have chosen to turn a blind eye to this rather than address the problem and confront a club owned by the type of people they now pander to, i.e. billionaires who think they are above the law.

If they are too weak to act then it should be taken to a higher jurisdiction.

 

I discovered today that a gateway to charge grievous bodily harm exists in situations like this, where despite being a lawful game with tackling allowed, reckless force causes serious injury.

 

Never mind writing to the police, The Club should be complaining to Greater Manchester Police.

 

A precedent should be set to deter these leg breaking challenges.

 

Find it fascinating that some folk think violent assault on the field of play, when it's clearly intended to seriously injure or maim another player as has happened here with De Jong on Ben Arfa, shouldn't be dealt with as a crime.

 

Of course it should. Footballers aren't above the law.

 

When you have someone behaving like that, basically being a thug, it's bordering on criminality in my view, and needs to be dealt with as such...or at least in a way where the player in question realises that he doesn't have some sort of diplomatic immunity from the justice system whilst on the field of play.

 

Totally agree. It was a criminal act and one that was I'm sure pre-meditated. The club should investigate legal recourse if that is possible (not sure it is or what the actual rules are).

 

You were talking about taking legal action to seek damages which is fine, but those saying it is a criminal act/should be reported to police, etc. are basically saying he should be tried for assault (actual bodily harm or whatever it's called over there). That's completely ridiculous.

 

Also you don't know it was pre-meditated and no one could ever prove it was.

 

Not defending De Jong by the way - think he's a thug and I think he probably enjoys injuring opposing players. It's his version of scoring a goal.

 

 

Of course no one knows if it was pre-meditataed, although camera evidence, post tackle behaviour and Brian Kidd's reaction may help any prosecution case to prove it was.

That is the reason people go to courts - to obtain a clear ruling and verdict on criminal intent and liability.

In this case I think there is a strong chance that intent would be proven. You on the other hand don't think it could be.

Hence the reason we have courts.

[Mick]

It looks like the FA are doing nothing about De Jong.