Not worthy of a thread - 2018 FIFA World Cup edition

[Mole_Toonfan]

I do admit i exaggerated for dramatic effect Also Spain's team would dominate regardless i agree, any team with Xavi in it did. I still feel like the CL is a higher quality of football these days though, World Cup was definitely better back in the day though.

 

Yeah, you also said only Cruyff out of generation comes close. You do talk some s***. Agree with KI in the sense that Messi is for me the best I've seen and by far as well, but I'm yet to talk to one that has seen Messi and Maradona throughout their careers say Messi is the better player which I find so hard to believe. Same goes regarding the ones who have seen Pele. In the end I'm happy I've gotten to see Messi play because in terms of career and winning trophies, I think Cristiano might actually have had a better one.

 

I said in terms of achievements, don't see how I am wrong considering his success with Holland and Ajax.

 

Very few have had a club and an international career with so much success, maybe instead of saying "you don't half talk some shit"  you should read what I said more carefully.

[Flip]

It's mainly an age thing isn't it? I was born in 91 and I'm sure as a kid most of the talk of the greatest by adults veered more towards Pele than Maradona, now Pele gets discussed a lot less in comparison, and the 35+ group tends to sway towards Maradona and the younger group Messi.

 

 

 

That might be the case with fans, but the following pundits and ex pros are all quoted as saying he's the best ever having seen both Messi and Maradona, with some of them having seen Pele as well.

 

Wenger, Simone, Guardiola, Beckenbaur, Venebles, Souness, Gullit, Lineker, Tostão, Adriano Galliani, Marcial Pina, Keane, Wright, Shearer, Maldini, original Ronaldo, and Cassano.

 

 

 

Fake news.

 

Why invent a list? Beckenbauer, Ronaldo and Tostao all have said Pele from that I know of. Not sure about the rest though.

[Guest firetotheworks]

It's mainly an age thing isn't it? I was born in 91 and I'm sure as a kid most of the talk of the greatest by adults veered more towards Pele than Maradona, now Pele gets discussed a lot less in comparison, and the 35+ group tends to sway towards Maradona and the younger group Messi.

 

 

 

That might be the case with fans, but the following pundits and ex pros are all quoted as saying he's the best ever having seen both Messi and Maradona, with some of them having seen Pele as well.

 

Wenger, Simone, Guardiola, Beckenbaur, Venebles, Souness, Gullit, Lineker, Tostão, Adriano Galliani, Marcial Pina, Keane, Wright, Shearer, Maldini, original Ronaldo, and Cassano.

 

 

 

Fake news.

 

Why invent a list? Beckenbauer, Ronaldo and Tostao all have said Pele from that I know of. Not sure about the rest though.

 

You could always have googled it instead of calling me a liar, like.

 

I messed up with Beckenbaur, but...

 

Tostao - "Messi is better than Maradona; he is more complete, more consistent, more spectacular. He is reinventing the game – a mix of the real and the virtual."

 

Ronaldo - "Does Messi deserve to be called the greatest player in the world? Yes, for sure."

 

EDIT: Yep, they don't say he's the best ever. It was a mistake though, I didn't 'invent' anything.

 

All from here: https://genius.com/Lionel-messi-quotes-on-lionel-messi-annotated

 

 

 

 

[afar]

Such a shame this is the last international break for a while, I do look forward to these pointless international friendlies and the chance to get away from following my team for a couple of weeks.

[Hanshithispantz]

Is there anything at all to back up Maradona being anywhere near Messi's level like? Stats wise it's not even close, and watching Messi it's hard to imagine anyone better.

 

It just seems like nostalgia and/or a want to elevate history above the the present. I'm fine with it to a degree like, modern players will always have an 'advantage' as training methods and fitness improve etc, so there has to be some perspective there. But it just seems massively disingenuous to watch Messi now and be like "Nah, Maradona was better".

[Kaizero]

Is there anything at all to back up Maradona being anywhere near Messi's level like? Stats wise it's not even close, and watching Messi it's hard to imagine anyone better.

 

It just seems like nostalgia and/or a want to elevate history above the the present. I'm fine with it to a degree like, modern players will always have an 'advantage' as training methods and fitness improve etc, so their has to be some perspective there, but it just seems massively disingenuous to watch Messi now and be like "Nah, Maradona was better".

 

Think it's more about the impact Maradona had on his teams vs the impact Messi has had rather than pure technical skill, tbh. At least that's how I see the argument.

[Guest firetotheworks]

Is there anything at all to back up Maradona being anywhere near Messi's level like? Stats wise it's not even close, and watching Messi it's hard to imagine anyone better.

 

It just seems like nostalgia and/or a want to elevate history above the the present. I'm fine with it to a degree like, modern players will always have an 'advantage' as training methods and fitness improve etc, so there has to be some perspective there. But it just seems massively disingenuous to watch Messi now and be like "Nah, Maradona was better".

 

The modern players thing works both ways as well tbf. The training, nutrition and so on is better all-round so regardless of the perceived level of quality between eras, the players he's coming up against are definitely fitter, almost certainly faster, and probably with a higher level of stamina.

[Guest firetotheworks]

I know he gets a lot of jip from us, but Souness sums it up perfectly when he talks about him on 'This Happens When Lionel Messi Faces The Greatest Defenders' - He's been saying he's the greatest of all time since 2011 as well tbf.

[Hanshithispantz]

Souness is one of the better pundits tbh. I think he went through a period of bitterness towards us but whenever I've seen him recently especially he's been really good.

[triggs]

Is there anything at all to back up Maradona being anywhere near Messi's level like? Stats wise it's not even close, and watching Messi it's hard to imagine anyone better.

 

It just seems like nostalgia and/or a want to elevate history above the the present. I'm fine with it to a degree like, modern players will always have an 'advantage' as training methods and fitness improve etc, so there has to be some perspective there. But it just seems massively disingenuous to watch Messi now and be like "Nah, Maradona was better".

Won the World Cup with ten guys who'd never kicked a football before iirc

[Disco]

[henke]

Is there anything at all to back up Maradona being anywhere near Messi's level like? Stats wise it's not even close, and watching Messi it's hard to imagine anyone better.

 

It just seems like nostalgia and/or a want to elevate history above the the present. I'm fine with it to a degree like, modern players will always have an 'advantage' as training methods and fitness improve etc, so there has to be some perspective there. But it just seems massively disingenuous to watch Messi now and be like "Nah, Maradona was better".

Won the World Cup with ten guys who'd never kicked a football before iirc

 

He failed to score in the final though, so clearly Messi is better. Even though he's never been close to winning the world cup.

[NEEJ]

Big improvement on the last few, aesthetically.

[triggs]

Is there anything at all to back up Maradona being anywhere near Messi's level like? Stats wise it's not even close, and watching Messi it's hard to imagine anyone better.

 

It just seems like nostalgia and/or a want to elevate history above the the present. I'm fine with it to a degree like, modern players will always have an 'advantage' as training methods and fitness improve etc, so there has to be some perspective there. But it just seems massively disingenuous to watch Messi now and be like "Nah, Maradona was better".

Won the World Cup with ten guys who'd never kicked a football before iirc

 

He failed to score in the final though, so clearly Messi is better. Even though he's never been close to winning the world cup.

wat

 

He was incredibly close to winning the last world cup

[henke]

Is there anything at all to back up Maradona being anywhere near Messi's level like? Stats wise it's not even close, and watching Messi it's hard to imagine anyone better.

 

It just seems like nostalgia and/or a want to elevate history above the the present. I'm fine with it to a degree like, modern players will always have an 'advantage' as training methods and fitness improve etc, so there has to be some perspective there. But it just seems massively disingenuous to watch Messi now and be like "Nah, Maradona was better".

Won the World Cup with ten guys who'd never kicked a football before iirc

 

He failed to score in the final though, so clearly Messi is better. Even though he's never been close to winning the world cup.

wat

 

He was incredibly close to winning the last world cup

 

I was going off the fact Germany were easily the best side in the tournament. But if you want to count Messi making the final then we can offset that with Maradona making the final again in 1990.

[triggs]

Is there anything at all to back up Maradona being anywhere near Messi's level like? Stats wise it's not even close, and watching Messi it's hard to imagine anyone better.

 

It just seems like nostalgia and/or a want to elevate history above the the present. I'm fine with it to a degree like, modern players will always have an 'advantage' as training methods and fitness improve etc, so there has to be some perspective there. But it just seems massively disingenuous to watch Messi now and be like "Nah, Maradona was better".

Won the World Cup with ten guys who'd never kicked a football before iirc

 

He failed to score in the final though, so clearly Messi is better. Even though he's never been close to winning the world cup.

wat

 

He was incredibly close to winning the last world cup

 

I was going off the fact Germany were easily the best side in the tournament. But if you want to count Messi making the final then we can offset that with Maradona making the final again in 1990.

Nah, you said he's never been close to winning a world cup which is just plain wrong. They were 7 minutes away from getting to penalties and were the better team for most of the game

[Wullie]

What a strange post.

 

EDIT: henke's.

[Wullie]

Argentina definitely had the better chances in the final before ET. Higuain went clean through early on and completely shanked it, and Messi himself put a chance he'd normally bury just wide.

 

The fact that it even comes down to discussing the particulars of one football match over a career that's seen him score at not much less than a game per game over 500+ games shows how preposterous the debate is.

 

If his team wins a particular game against, as henke says, the best team in the world, then he's the best individual player ever. If they don't win against that team, he's not. It's laughable.

 

This argument says that by definition, if you come from a country that's generally not very good at football, or even, say, doesn't have a good defence during a particular time period, then you can never be the best player ever. So someone comes along in five years time that is clearly better than Messi, makes Messi look bog average, wins the Champions League every year with Northampton Town and scores at a rate of 5 goals a game for 1000 games, but he's Slovakian, or Chinese, or gets injured in the WC semi final. Sorry chum. Maradona's got the trophy in the cabinet.

[triggs]

Just watched the highlights of the 1986 final. Its like a completely different sport. The defending is absolutely awful

[Flip]

It's mainly an age thing isn't it? I was born in 91 and I'm sure as a kid most of the talk of the greatest by adults veered more towards Pele than Maradona, now Pele gets discussed a lot less in comparison, and the 35+ group tends to sway towards Maradona and the younger group Messi.

 

 

 

That might be the case with fans, but the following pundits and ex pros are all quoted as saying he's the best ever having seen both Messi and Maradona, with some of them having seen Pele as well.

 

Wenger, Simone, Guardiola, Beckenbaur, Venebles, Souness, Gullit, Lineker, Tostão, Adriano Galliani, Marcial Pina, Keane, Wright, Shearer, Maldini, original Ronaldo, and Cassano.

 

 

 

Fake news.

 

Why invent a list? Beckenbauer, Ronaldo and Tostao all have said Pele from that I know of. Not sure about the rest though.

 

You could always have googled it instead of calling me a liar, like.

 

I messed up with Beckenbaur, but...

 

Tostao - "Messi is better than Maradona; he is more complete, more consistent, more spectacular. He is reinventing the game – a mix of the real and the virtual."

 

Ronaldo - "Does Messi deserve to be called the greatest player in the world? Yes, for sure."

 

EDIT: Yep, they don't say he's the best ever. It was a mistake though, I didn't 'invent' anything.

 

All from here: https://genius.com/Lionel-messi-quotes-on-lionel-messi-annotated

 

 

Both Ronaldo and Tostao have said Pele is better, there's article on google if you google them, might be in portuguese, but I rather trust articles over quotes that are taken out of context. Ronaldo even says he thinks Pele and Maradona are far ahead of Messi.

 

http://globoesporte.globo.com/futebol/futebol-internacional/futebol-espanhol/noticia/2015/12/ronaldo-prefere-et-messi-cr7-e-acha-pele-e-maradona-muito-melhores.html

http://globoesporte.globo.com/mg/noticia/2012/03/tostao-nao-poupa-elogios-messi-ele-ja-e-bem-melhor-que-maradona.html

 

So yeah...

 

Pointless discussion. My apologies.

 

 

[Guest Howaythetoon]

CL football is of a much higher standard than the WC, Messi has to be the best player ever though in the modern sense. But Pele has this magical aura about him giving his WC exploits and for me is the true greatest of all time and likely never to be surpassed. Maradona was a great player, but like Cruyff and Best and players like them a few rungs below Pele and Messi. I rate Ronaldo of Real Madrid, but he's a level below Messi as well. If Messi wins a WC it's game set and match for him like.

[Guest firetotheworks]

It's mainly an age thing isn't it? I was born in 91 and I'm sure as a kid most of the talk of the greatest by adults veered more towards Pele than Maradona, now Pele gets discussed a lot less in comparison, and the 35+ group tends to sway towards Maradona and the younger group Messi.

 

 

 

That might be the case with fans, but the following pundits and ex pros are all quoted as saying he's the best ever having seen both Messi and Maradona, with some of them having seen Pele as well.

 

Wenger, Simone, Guardiola, Beckenbaur, Venebles, Souness, Gullit, Lineker, Tostão, Adriano Galliani, Marcial Pina, Keane, Wright, Shearer, Maldini, original Ronaldo, and Cassano.

 

 

 

Fake news.

 

Why invent a list? Beckenbauer, Ronaldo and Tostao all have said Pele from that I know of. Not sure about the rest though.

 

You could always have googled it instead of calling me a liar, like.

 

I messed up with Beckenbaur, but...

 

Tostao - "Messi is better than Maradona; he is more complete, more consistent, more spectacular. He is reinventing the game – a mix of the real and the virtual."

 

Ronaldo - "Does Messi deserve to be called the greatest player in the world? Yes, for sure."

 

EDIT: Yep, they don't say he's the best ever. It was a mistake though, I didn't 'invent' anything.

 

All from here: https://genius.com/Lionel-messi-quotes-on-lionel-messi-annotated

 

 

Both Ronaldo and Tostao have said Pele is better, there's article on google if you google them, might be in portuguese, but I rather trust articles over quotes that are taken out of context. Ronaldo even says he thinks Pele and Maradona are far ahead of Messi.

 

http://globoesporte.globo.com/futebol/futebol-internacional/futebol-espanhol/noticia/2015/12/ronaldo-prefere-et-messi-cr7-e-acha-pele-e-maradona-muito-melhores.html

http://globoesporte.globo.com/mg/noticia/2012/03/tostao-nao-poupa-elogios-messi-ele-ja-e-bem-melhor-que-maradona.html

 

So yeah...

 

Pointless discussion. My apologies.

 

 

 

I know, hence

EDIT: Yep, they don't say he's the best ever. It was a mistake though, I didn't 'invent' anything.

 

Tbf, Ronaldo's 41 so he can't really say whether Pele was better or not imo. I try to limit things to 'in my lifetime', but it is tempting to go beyond that purely because it seems impossible that anyone could be any better. Whatever happens, I hope that in the future it'll be a case of my kids coming to me and saying 'such and such is the best player ever' and a whole generation of dads and grandads just saying 'Nah, Messi'

[Flip]

Ah sorry.

[joeyt]

Saturday 16th of June 2018

 

World Cup matches at 11am, 1pm, 4pm and 7pm.

[Bizza]

Saturday 16th of June 2018

 

World Cup matches at 11am, 1pm, 4pm and 7pm.