wormy Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Hughton wasnt appointed, he was the default option during a period when Ashley was considering cutting loose. When he decided to engage with a strategy for the club (an imperfect one but at least a strategy), he needed a man to help him implement that. The existence of a relationship beforehand isnt a sign of dubious behaviour or snideness (its just business), its an example of good recruitment policy. Get to know the candidate on a personal level to test the dynamics how he/she will handle the distribution of power and decision-rights. Hughton's treatment was unfair but life and business is not fair. Its clear that Pardew is aligned to club strategy which is where all of the problems have occured in the past, Allardyce's style, Keegan's ambition, Hughton's relationship with the players. Llambias + Pardew is no ones choice of chairman / manager but more success can come from the alignment of vision between these two than a better or more popular manager with a mis-aligned vision of the strategy for the club. Very good point. Also don't understand the point of 'Pardew wouldn't have been appointed if he wasn't casino buddies with Ashley and Llambias'. It's not like Hughton was a much more calculated appointment. FWIW, I don't think there's much between the two of them. Both will make mistakes, both will get good and bad results, and ultimately, I think Pardew will just edge it in overall results for the reason Chez made, he's on the wavelength of the board, whether we consider it a good wavelength or not is a different question altogether. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
quayside Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Why was Llambias appointed? And Kinnear? Sheer desperation. Who else would take the job? One of Ashley's Spurs mates probably knew JFK and put him in touch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Hughton wasnt appointed, he was the default option during a period when Ashley was considering cutting loose. When he decided to engage with a strategy for the club (an imperfect one but at least a strategy), he needed a man to help him implement that. The existence of a relationship beforehand isnt a sign of dubious behaviour or snideness (its just business), its an example of good recruitment policy. Get to know the candidate on a personal level to test the dynamics how he/she will handle the distribution of power and decision-rights. Hughton's treatment was unfair but life and business is not fair. Its clear that Pardew is aligned to club strategy which is where all of the problems have occured in the past, Allardyce's style, Keegan's ambition, Hughton's relationship with the players. Llambias + Pardew is no ones choice of chairman / manager but more success can come from the alignment of vision between these two than a better or more popular manager with a mis-aligned vision of the strategy for the club. Spot on, I've been saying for months that as long as we have Ashley it's in our best interests to have a manager that is prepared to swallow whatever it takes to work with him. Even if the fans think the club owner is often on the wrong path, it's even more harmful to have a manager that isn't aligned to the strategy. I'm not saying Hughton couldn't have continued, but Ashley and Llambias clearly trust and have faith in Pardew. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ykmkmdd Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 I loved Hughton but personally think Pardew is on a different planet - has a presence and tactical awareness I think is superior, Hughton did very well with a group of players he inherited but the nature of his relationships with the senior players always meant evolving the squad and playing style would prove very difficult for him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
quayside Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Hughton wasnt appointed, he was the default option during a period when Ashley was considering cutting loose. When he decided to engage with a strategy for the club (an imperfect one but at least a strategy), he needed a man to help him implement that. The existence of a relationship beforehand isnt a sign of dubious behaviour or snideness (its just business), its an example of good recruitment policy. Get to know the candidate on a personal level to test the dynamics how he/she will handle the distribution of power and decision-rights. Hughton's treatment was unfair but life and business is not fair. Its clear that Pardew is aligned to club strategy which is where all of the problems have occured in the past, Allardyce's style, Keegan's ambition, Hughton's relationship with the players. Llambias + Pardew is no ones choice of chairman / manager but more success can come from the alignment of vision between these two than a better or more popular manager with a mis-aligned vision of the strategy for the club. I don't think much of Llambias but have to agree with you that it is better to have a set up where everyone in the tent is pissing out. I'm still not sure what evidence there is that Pardew was mates with Ashley or Llambias before he got the job. I've seen the Aspers photo but wasn't that recent? Also agree with you about those who blame him for taking the job, as you say business is not fair and anyway AP did not sack Hughton. At least the club had a replacement lined up when they did get rid, and that hasn't always been the case. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Hughton wasnt appointed, he was the default option during a period when Ashley was considering cutting loose. When he decided to engage with a strategy for the club (an imperfect one but at least a strategy), he needed a man to help him implement that. The existence of a relationship beforehand isnt a sign of dubious behaviour or snideness (its just business), its an example of good recruitment policy. Get to know the candidate on a personal level to test the dynamics how he/she will handle the distribution of power and decision-rights. Hughton's treatment was unfair but life and business is not fair. Its clear that Pardew is aligned to club strategy which is where all of the problems have occured in the past, Allardyce's style, Keegan's ambition, Hughton's relationship with the players. Llambias + Pardew is no ones choice of chairman / manager but more success can come from the alignment of vision between these two than a better or more popular manager with a mis-aligned vision of the strategy for the club. Spot on, I've been saying for months that as long as we have Ashley it's in our best interests to have a manager that is prepared to swallow whatever it takes to work with him. Even if the fans think the club owner is often on the wrong path, it's even more harmful to have a manager that isn't aligned to the strategy. I'm not saying Hughton couldn't have continued, but Ashley and Llambias clearly trust and have faith in Pardew. Agreed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilko Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Hughton wasnt appointed, he was the default option during a period when Ashley was considering cutting loose. When he decided to engage with a strategy for the club (an imperfect one but at least a strategy), he needed a man to help him implement that. The existence of a relationship beforehand isnt a sign of dubious behaviour or snideness (its just business), its an example of good recruitment policy. Get to know the candidate on a personal level to test the dynamics how he/she will handle the distribution of power and decision-rights. Hughton's treatment was unfair but life and business is not fair. Its clear that Pardew is aligned to club strategy which is where all of the problems have occured in the past, Allardyce's style, Keegan's ambition, Hughton's relationship with the players. Llambias + Pardew is no ones choice of chairman / manager but more success can come from the alignment of vision between these two than a better or more popular manager with a mis-aligned vision of the strategy for the club. I'm still not sure what evidence there is that Pardew was mates with Ashley or Llambias before he got the job. I remember reading something somewhere that reckoned the squad went on a murder mystery team building day thing during pre-season after we got promoted and apparently Pardew was there as a guest of Llambias. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiresias Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 was the murder mystery who killed Houghton? it was Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Hughton is more respectable, honest and much better tactically, a far better all-rounder in fact. You'll not see Pardew oversee a result such as the 1-0 win at the Emirates, the 5-1 over the mackems, the 6-0 over Villa nor the rise of an average talent like Carroll. As soon as Pardew took over the form of Nolan and Barton for example dropped below the standard they were performing at under Hughton. Hughton acheieved great things here for a rookie in such a short time under huge pressure too and the job he was doing, i.e. building a good side, was taken away from him not only in a really p*ss poor way but far too early too. He united the whole club which is no mean task, it took Sir Bobby a few years to do that. Fans believed in him, players did too. Hughton would have saw us kicking on and step up another level and long-term too. I guarantee as soon as a few results go against us, the wheels will fall off under Pardew, on and off the pitch. Even under a good start fans are split and that's because a good number don't like him or trust him and feel he lacks that bit extra bit class, something Hughton seemed to have. We always bounced back after a set back under him. Until he was sacked after that deplorable game against WBA. Much better tactically my arse. Hughton took a team with Carroll, Barton, Jonas, Ben Arfa, Tiote, Coloccini and Enrique, and had them losing 1-2 to Stoke at home. We created one single clear-cut chance all game with that team. Similiar can be said about games against Blackpool, Blackburn and Bolton. Pardew took a team with Krul, Simpson, Perch, Coloccini, Williamson, Barton, Smith, Nolan, Ranger, Best, Routledge, Lovenkrands and Tiote to Stevenage and had them losing 3-1. You've mentioned one game and 5 or 6 bad footballers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 You've mentioned one game and 5 or 6 bad footballers. The 5 or 6 bad footballers would all be expected to get into a 4th division team, maybe not Smith but the rest should. That performance was the worst performance of the season in any game we played. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TherealnorthernTOON Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Aye, I like Hughton but tactically we're far better off under Pardew. We're so much more organised and look more stable as a unit. 8 points out of 12 on the road and only 2 goals conceded tells its own story. Some of that has to be attributed to us being massively lucky, though (dodgy ref decisions in our favour, etc). Pardew was basically playing the same system Hughton had setup when he took over in any case and only started changing it this season, so Hughton does deserve a little more credit for handing Pardew a team that was basically good enough to take care of itself. Also I think Enrique would have stayed if Hughton stayed. Why? The twits he posted after Hughton's sacking + gut feeling. totally relevant, must be true. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Tbf both managers had some horrific games last season. The one's that stand out for me in Hughton's time are Stoke (H), Bolton (A) and WBA (A) where we created absolutely nothing. At least in the Blackpool game at home we created a hatful of chances and if it wasn't from the performance by Gilks we could have won by 2 or 3. The games that stand out for me last season where it showed that Pardew was tactically inept are Stoke (A), Stevenage (A) and Villa (A). All 3 of them games we were absolutely pathetic and massively outclassed by 2 teams at the same level as us and the other who we should be beating. However, I think Pardew has learnt from his mistakes over the summer and I think in every game this season (bar QPR maybe) we've looked like we can deal with what we're playing against e.g. Villa (A). Last season we were absolutely pathetic and should have lost by more. This season we got in there faces and probably should have won the game at the end. I just hope Pardew has learnt from his silly substitions ala West Brom at home Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Hughton wasnt appointed, he was the default option during a period when Ashley was considering cutting loose. When he decided to engage with a strategy for the club (an imperfect one but at least a strategy), he needed a man to help him implement that. The existence of a relationship beforehand isnt a sign of dubious behaviour or snideness (its just business), its an example of good recruitment policy. Get to know the candidate on a personal level to test the dynamics how he/she will handle the distribution of power and decision-rights. Hughton's treatment was unfair but life and business is not fair. Its clear that Pardew is aligned to club strategy which is where all of the problems have occured in the past, Allardyce's style, Keegan's ambition, Hughton's relationship with the players. Llambias + Pardew is no ones choice of chairman / manager but more success can come from the alignment of vision between these two than a better or more popular manager with a mis-aligned vision of the strategy for the club. Good to see you posting here these days Chez, if only to provide a business insight into what goes on at St James. Which isn't necessarily to say it's right btw, but at least it gives some basis in reason. Hughton's sacking wasn't popular and it was a brave decision for Ashley to take it as it was always going to look like shooting Bambi as Fat Fred would say. It's not like Hughton was going to be demanding the earth for a new contract, he was the cheap option to begin with. Therefore you have to assume he wasn't able to execute the strategy required or just wasn't able to divorce himself from the players in order to keep the squad evolving. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Bottom line with Chris Hughton is he is a very good coach, a handy caretaker who gave his all but not a manager. A genuinely nice fella who should get out of management and back in to coaching as soon as possible. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottledDog Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 I'll stick this here as there were some who questioned Pardews treatment of Harper. “The manager has been first class. I read somewhere we have had a fall-out. We haven’t had a fall-out. “I’ve had several discussions with him and every one of them has been amicable. “We have come out very positive and I fully endorse what he is doing regarding the bench. Read More http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/newcastle-united/nufc-news/2011/10/06/steve-harper-still-committed-to-nufc-s-cause-72703-29547662/?#ixzz1a0VF0BdK Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaizero Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 I'll stick this here as there were some who questioned Pardews treatment of Harper. “The manager has been first class. I read somewhere we have had a fall-out. We haven’t had a fall-out. “I’ve had several discussions with him and every one of them has been amicable. “We have come out very positive and I fully endorse what he is doing regarding the bench. Read More http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/newcastle-united/nufc-news/2011/10/06/steve-harper-still-committed-to-nufc-s-cause-72703-29547662/?#ixzz1a0VF0BdK Always kinda feel sorry for Harper. He's not good enough to play for us, granted, but still. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wormy Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 I'll stick this here as there were some who questioned Pardews treatment of Harper. “The manager has been first class. I read somewhere we have had a fall-out. We haven’t had a fall-out. “I’ve had several discussions with him and every one of them has been amicable. “We have come out very positive and I fully endorse what he is doing regarding the bench. Read More http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/newcastle-united/nufc-news/2011/10/06/steve-harper-still-committed-to-nufc-s-cause-72703-29547662/?#ixzz1a0VF0BdK Always kinda feel sorry for Harper. He's not good enough to play for us, granted, but still. He's demanded not to play away matches. Scum tbh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Wasn't Hughton rumoured to be Ashley's mate being ex Spurs and all that? He was brought in behind Keegan's back too which was the rumour at the time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 As for Pardew being lined up for the job while Hughton was still here, so what? There have been plenty of time in the past when I wished we had the foresight to have someone lined up before sacking the current manager, Bobby Robson's sacking was a great example of this and how we had to fanny about being rejected before settling for Souness, while our nearest rivals at the time had Benitez all lined up for when they moved Houllier on. So while it was hard on Chris who was a decent bloke I'm not going to lose too much sleep over it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BooBoo Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Agreed Bagg. At least thus time we had a plan instead of wandering around in limbo for a few months. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TheSummerOf69 Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Why was Llambias appointed? And Kinnear? Sheer desperation. Who else would take the job? One of Ashley's Spurs mates probably knew JFK and put him in touch. Or Dennis Wise? When we got Pardew there were other out of work (ie cheap and desperate) ex-managers like David O'Leary and Glen Hoddle getting mentioned too. Thankfully their odds were below Pardew's at the bookies which would probably be enough to keep our gambler away from them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Hughton is more respectable, honest and much better tactically, a far better all-rounder in fact. You'll not see Pardew oversee a result such as the 1-0 win at the Emirates, the 5-1 over the mackems, the 6-0 over Villa nor the rise of an average talent like Carroll. As soon as Pardew took over the form of Nolan and Barton for example dropped below the standard they were performing at under Hughton. Hughton acheieved great things here for a rookie in such a short time under huge pressure too and the job he was doing, i.e. building a good side, was taken away from him not only in a really p*ss poor way but far too early too. He united the whole club which is no mean task, it took Sir Bobby a few years to do that. Fans believed in him, players did too. Hughton would have saw us kicking on and step up another level and long-term too. I guarantee as soon as a few results go against us, the wheels will fall off under Pardew, on and off the pitch. Even under a good start fans are split and that's because a good number don't like him or trust him and feel he lacks that bit extra bit class, something Hughton seemed to have. We always bounced back after a set back under him. Until he was sacked after that deplorable game against WBA. Much better tactically my arse. Hughton took a team with Carroll, Barton, Jonas, Ben Arfa, Tiote, Coloccini and Enrique, and had them losing 1-2 to Stoke at home. We created one single clear-cut chance all game with that team. Similiar can be said about games against Blackpool, Blackburn and Bolton. Pardew took a team with Krul, Simpson, Perch, Coloccini, Williamson, Barton, Smith, Nolan, Ranger, Best, Routledge, Lovenkrands and Tiote to Stevenage and had them losing 3-1. That post is so strewn with agenda it is worthy of nothing other than complete contempt. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Which one? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 tbf barton, smith and nolan were hughtons group of lads and probably sabotaged things. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lush Vlad Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Hughton is more respectable, honest and much better tactically, a far better all-rounder in fact. You'll not see Pardew oversee a result such as the 1-0 win at the Emirates, the 5-1 over the mackems, the 6-0 over Villa nor the rise of an average talent like Carroll. As soon as Pardew took over the form of Nolan and Barton for example dropped below the standard they were performing at under Hughton. Hughton acheieved great things here for a rookie in such a short time under huge pressure too and the job he was doing, i.e. building a good side, was taken away from him not only in a really p*ss poor way but far too early too. He united the whole club which is no mean task, it took Sir Bobby a few years to do that. Fans believed in him, players did too. Hughton would have saw us kicking on and step up another level and long-term too. I guarantee as soon as a few results go against us, the wheels will fall off under Pardew, on and off the pitch. Even under a good start fans are split and that's because a good number don't like him or trust him and feel he lacks that bit extra bit class, something Hughton seemed to have. We always bounced back after a set back under him. Until he was sacked after that deplorable game against WBA. Much better tactically my arse. Hughton took a team with Carroll, Barton, Jonas, Ben Arfa, Tiote, Coloccini and Enrique, and had them losing 1-2 to Stoke at home. We created one single clear-cut chance all game with that team. Similiar can be said about games against Blackpool, Blackburn and Bolton. Pardew took a team with Krul, Simpson, Perch, Coloccini, Williamson, Barton, Smith, Nolan, Ranger, Best, Routledge, Lovenkrands and Tiote to Stevenage and had them losing 3-1. That post is so strewn with agenda it is worthy of nothing other than complete contempt. The agenda horse is back! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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