Mick Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 I wasn't asking you, but let's hear it - given that you're basically the biggest fan of the managerial colossus who heroically dragged Birmingham to 15th place on Monday. Birmingham are 6 points off a play off position with two games in hand and have been playing in Europe while trying to do something in the league. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 Aye Hughton's doing a good job down there. Good to see. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rey Mysterio Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 Tbf ChrisJbarnes, it's quite hard to analyse a game like 3-1 at Liverpool with a perfectly weighted positive and negative balance when there are pretty much zero positives to be taken. After a match like this, this thread will be filled with criticisms because there were no positives. In the grand scheme of things, yes we're 7th. Yes I'm happy. Doesn't mean I can't have an opinion on matches where he was obviously clueless. Repeated mistakes, in any job, are a source of not only annoyance, but disciplinary action. Repeatedly using an out-of-form Obertan when you've got the supposedly most gifted French player of his generation if you go by his compatriots on the bench is mind boggling. In a way he's the anti-Hughton, Norwich aside he has a good record vs the 'lesser' teams, and can't do much vs the big hitters. Hughton seemed the opposite of that at the time. Overall, doing good. Doesn't mean I'm totally happy; when I see our team put out to play to their strengths and play with their hearts on their sleeves set up to play football, and lose, then hands up fair play Mr Pardew. Doesn't happen too often though. I just feel that game for game, point for point, Pardew has done extremely well taking all factors into consideration. Starting Obertan raises eyebrows certainly, but there might well be perfectly good reasons why he isn't doing it. We're on poor form admittedly, but I'm not sure any other managers would necessarily have us in the same position given the circumstances. A few people wanted Jol, Hughes and O'Neill instead of Pardew. Jol isn't popular with Fulham fans, O'Neill isnt popular with Villa fans, Hughes is fairly meh. Is the grass always greener? I just think a few people are quick to jump on bandwagons. If Pardew had made all his team selections, tactics and substitutions according to the general consensus on here, would we be 7th? I have my doubts. He certainly isnt above criticism but I think people on here do have a tendancy to oversimplify managing a football team. Off to bed now so probably won't reply If we played the kind of football Fulham play with the squad of players at our disposal (ie Cabaye instead of Sidwell, Colo instead of Senderos etc) I'd be fucking delighted and I'm sure we'd not be any worse off in terms of league points either. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 Deserved win at Arsenal last season is the obvious one in Hughton's favour. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Snrub Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 Fair enough Hughton didn't know to close games out the way Pardew does, but Hughton knew how to go at teams much better and imo he never feared a defeat more than going after all 3 points. Hughton would have had Santon and Ben Arfa starting weeks ago. Will we ever see 6-0, 5 and 4 wins at St James against teams we're capable of beating by that margain under Pardew? Nah. Don't even think a manager as defensively naive as Chrissy could have coneded 3 second half goals against West Brom. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawK Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 What the hell did Hughton do vs the big hitters? If it wasn't the results, it was how we played. Distinctly remember watching us vs City, we seemed equal to them at times under Hughton. And the win against Liverpool where we simply outplayed them. We seemed capable of giving them a game, in our direct, Barton-Carroll style that we had. At least we played to our strengths and tried to impose our game on them, and not just try to nullify. Glimpses of this spirit existed at Stoke this season as others have pointed out, and I really hoped Pardew was developing into a good manager for us, but the difference is Pardew right now clearly doesn't have the faith in the players to go out and try the same thing vs a good team, where Hughton, despite his other faults, did. In a word I think it comes down to Belief, where Hughton got them buzzing with confidence and an exuberance of togetherness, which worked wonders in the face of adversity, it often lead to overconfidence vs the lower teams and we wouldn't get the results we needed. I always looked forward to the games vs the top teams under Hughton, because I knew it was about how they were going to cope with us, not how we were going to cope with them. Pardew clearly has a track record of failing to get the best out of 'difficult' players, but the 'difficult' players are usually the very best players, your Roberts, your Bellamys and your Ben Arfas. This is the difference between a manager you can get behind after a loss, knowing he's done all he could, with the players busting their guts, and one where sometimes he just doesn't seem to care - And it rubs off on the players. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 Wasn't the win against Liverpool under Pardy? (although tbf it's not like he had any time to change anything tactically) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beren Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 Wasn't the win against Liverpool under Pardy? (although tbf it's not like he had any time to change anything tactically) Not according to the players. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 tru dat. Think people are overglorifying us under Hughton tbh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Heneage Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 Wasn't the win against Liverpool under Pardy? (although tbf it's not like he had any time to change anything tactically) Yeah but remember "It was fur Chris dat." Shame they hadn't taken such an approach the week before when we got stuffed at West Brom. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawK Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 tru dat. Think people are overglorifying us under Hughton tbh. I'll be the first to say I could understand his sacking from Ashley's point of view. And I will also say he would never be the one to take us beyond where we were. He was terrible tactically and it showed. But, he was a damn good motivator and to get all them ego-maniacs playing together and for the fans was a spectacle to behold imho. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Icke - Son of God Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 He needs a boot in the cock for not starting HBA. That's just IMO, like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 tru dat. Think people are overglorifying us under Hughton tbh. Of course they are. We played awful stuff against awful teams on an almost regular basis under Hughton. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnypd Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 Tbf ChrisJbarnes, it's quite hard to analyse a game like 3-1 at Liverpool with a perfectly weighted positive and negative balance when there are pretty much zero positives to be taken. After a match like this, this thread will be filled with criticisms because there were no positives. In the grand scheme of things, yes we're 7th. Yes I'm happy. Doesn't mean I can't have an opinion on matches where he was obviously clueless. Repeated mistakes, in any job, are a source of not only annoyance, but disciplinary action. Repeatedly using an out-of-form Obertan when you've got the supposedly most gifted French player of his generation if you go by his compatriots on the bench is mind boggling. In a way he's the anti-Hughton, Norwich aside he has a good record vs the 'lesser' teams, and can't do much vs the big hitters. Hughton seemed the opposite of that at the time. Overall, doing good. Doesn't mean I'm totally happy; when I see our team put out to play to their strengths and play with their hearts on their sleeves set up to play football, and lose, then hands up fair play Mr Pardew. Doesn't happen too often though. I just feel that game for game, point for point, Pardew has done extremely well taking all factors into consideration. Starting Obertan raises eyebrows certainly, but there might well be perfectly good reasons why he isn't doing it. We're on poor form admittedly, but I'm not sure any other managers would necessarily have us in the same position given the circumstances. A few people wanted Jol, Hughes and O'Neill instead of Pardew. Jol isn't popular with Fulham fans, O'Neill isnt popular with Villa fans, Hughes is fairly meh. Is the grass always greener? I just think a few people are quick to jump on bandwagons. If Pardew had made all his team selections, tactics and substitutions according to the general consensus on here, would we be 7th? I have my doubts. He certainly isnt above criticism but I think people on here do have a tendancy to oversimplify managing a football team. Off to bed now so probably won't reply If we played the kind of football Fulham play with the squad of players at our disposal (ie Cabaye instead of Sidwell, Colo instead of Senderos etc) I'd be fucking delighted and I'm sure we'd not be any worse off in terms of league points either. fulham are building a nice team under Jol. bought a few talented european youngsters like frei, ruiz is starting to look good, dembele is starting to be more influential. next challenge for them will be replacing zamora when he inevitably leaves and bringing in better deep lying midfielders and i reckon he'll do it well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 Equally, Fulham are a couple of departures from sinking down the table. Hangleand and Dempsey out and they'd struggle IMO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 Equally, Fulham are a couple of departures from sinking down the table. Hangleand and Dempsey out and they'd struggle IMO. I would say we're in the same position as them regarding being a couple of players from sinking down the table. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 Quite funny that the West Brom game is constantly thrown at Hughton when Pardew has played them twice at home, picked up one point, conceded six goals and put in two absolutely disgraceful performances. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sifu Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 Fair enough Hughton didn't know to close games out the way Pardew does, but Hughton knew how to go at teams much better and imo he never feared a defeat more than going after all 3 points. Hughton would have had Santon and Ben Arfa starting weeks ago. Will we ever see 6-0, 5 and 4 wins at St James against teams we're capable of beating by that margain under Pardew? Nah. Don't even think a manager as defensively naive as Chrissy could have coneded 3 second half goals against West Brom. Pardew did manage it once last season, albeit against a crap West Ham side. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawK Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 tru dat. Think people are overglorifying us under Hughton tbh. Of course they are. We played awful stuff against awful teams on an almost regular basis under Hughton. You could just address me directly I said at least twice he had his faults and very specifically that he was inferior to Pardew when it comes to getting results against lesser teams. I agree with you on that and so does every one else. You cannot deny though, the team we had played their damndest under Hughton. That 4-4 came from the players, under Hughton's management rather than tactics, and his management of the players was brilliant. Got Liverpool to pay 35m for a confidence player too Why can't we get a motivator and a tactician? Always something amiss at this club. If only Calderwood was any use they might have done even better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 Quite funny that the West Brom game is constantly thrown at Hughton when Pardew has played them twice at home, picked up one point, conceded six goals and put in two absolutely disgraceful performances. Not nearly as disgraceful as the one at The Hawthorns, though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 tru dat. Think people are overglorifying us under Hughton tbh. Of course they are. We played awful stuff against awful teams on an almost regular basis under Hughton. You could just address me directly I said at least twice he had his faults and very specifically that he was inferior to Pardew when it comes to getting results against lesser teams. I agree with you on that and so does every one else. You cannot deny though, the team we had played their damndest under Hughton. That 4-4 came from the players, under Hughton's management rather than tactics, and his management of the players was brilliant. Got Liverpool to pay 35m for a confidence player too Why can't we get a motivator and a tactician? Always something amiss at this club. If only Calderwood was any use they might have done even better. What a load of tosh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawK Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 tru dat. Think people are overglorifying us under Hughton tbh. Of course they are. We played awful stuff against awful teams on an almost regular basis under Hughton. You could just address me directly I said at least twice he had his faults and very specifically that he was inferior to Pardew when it comes to getting results against lesser teams. I agree with you on that and so does every one else. You cannot deny though, the team we had played their damndest under Hughton. That 4-4 came from the players, under Hughton's management rather than tactics, and his management of the players was brilliant. Got Liverpool to pay 35m for a confidence player too Why can't we get a motivator and a tactician? Always something amiss at this club. If only Calderwood was any use they might have done even better. What a load of tosh. I'll take that as an 'Ok then'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 One point from six at home including throwing away a three goal lead is better than one away defeat? You're embarrassing yourself. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexf Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 If he wasn't so pig-headed and stubborn I think I'd have a lot more time for Pardew. Instead i get that same horrible Souness/Allardyce/Kinnear vibe after a defeat where i can't help but feel he is massively responsible for the loss. Which is probably harsh on him tbf Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 Both managers are working with similar squads in terms of talent and both are producing similar results. Both also have obvious faults. People are just attached to Hughton because they associate him with winning every week in the Championship and the fact he is obviously a stand up bloke who was harshly sacked. Fair enough tbh, I can see why people haven't warmed to Pardew since he got the job off his mistreatment. The idea that Hughton had us playing better football and was a brilliant motivator, I just don't think I can agree with at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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