Stephen Ireland

[Guest]

  On 27/06/2011 at 00:18, Sewelly said:

Maybe but I'd rather not be pinning our hopes on Stephen Ireland regaining his absolute peak form to get us there.

 

We won't be though, we have Ben Arfa, Cabaye, Tiote, etc.

 

If we can't take a risk on a player like Ireland on that amount, I really don't know what we're expecting.

[fredbob]

  On 27/06/2011 at 00:05, Dave said:

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I'm a football fan. I want to see good, hopefully winning football on the pitch, that's my primary reason for going. The wages of the players, whether high or low are ultimately of little concern to me; players are either useful or they're not. Luque was rubbish, Emre so-so and Owen overall a disaster because of his injuries, attitude towards his England place and lack of balls when it really mattered. His comments since leaving prove what a wanker he is. If he'd done the business though I wouldn't have cared about the silly money he was on, just like I didn't care when Shearer was on silly money. I follow Newcastle United the football club, not their bank balance.

 

As I said before, by no means am I claiming the finances don't matter. Beats me why everyone wants to be an amateur accountant these days, that's all.

 

To be honest Dave, I'm only on my phone and haven't got time to address everything I feel is wrong with that post, would we be having this debate had sounds made a success of that team? No.

 

What that era did highlight though was how important it is to enforce accountability and some form of sensible transfer plan.

 

If you're mainly bothered about the quality of football that's played surely you should only be interested in the quality of player we sign rather than how much we spend on them? Do marveuax/ba/cabaye and Ben arfa not indicate an intention to buy quality players?

 

Remember, players that cost a lot now were good players before they became well known.

 

Id say if you're not interested in the finances, then why comment on them so frequently?

 

No idea why it always comes back to apparently advocating Souness, Shepherd and some of the fucking ludicrous deals we did in the past. I guess I must want to see the club go out of existence!

 

I comment on the finances because I want to see Andy Carroll adequately replaced. I was always against his sale at any price for the same reasons as above - I saw a very good player going out and nothing coming in. The excuse for selling him was that the money would go straight back into the first team, but then it became 'the squad' instead, and now it's 'the club'. As I see it we've not replaced him, and unless there's a dead cheap Andy Carroll equivalent we can find (that Liverpool and Spurs etc apparently can't) then we'll have to spend money, or we're weaker - or at least not pushing upwards.

 

Aside from Nolan going I'm happy with our business so far because the players that have come in look to have talent, and that's what I want to see. If we want to move up the table though we'll have to spend money to at the very least replace the goals Carroll and Nolan scored last season, which was 40% of our total.

 

If you dont see the link between what happened with shepherd and souness and how it directly moulded our current transfer policy then there's no point for this debate. (This isn't me saying its all there fault bytheway)

 

For what its worth this shift in policy was apparent when allardyce was appointed, its not a new thing.

 

I agree with your point about Carroll, disagree about nolan, glad he's gone.

[ponsaelius]

At the very most I'd take him on loan again for a season with an agreed fee. Right now I wouldn't be willing to pay a fee for him and give him a long-term contract.

[Dave]

  On 27/06/2011 at 00:19, Toon's Taylor said:

So players peak at 22 now? 

 

Are they over the hill at 28?

[Ronaldo]

  On 27/06/2011 at 00:43, Dave said:

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So players peak at 22 now? 

 

Are they over the hill at 28?

 

We have 2 players roughly at that age who were once able to play CM effectively, but no longer can.

[Hanshithispantz]

Honestly man, the lad has had a shit year at 24 due to a couple of reasons and people won't even take him at £2m

 

At the very worst he'll be a solid midfielder, at his very best he'll be one of the best midfielders in the league.

[Dave]

  On 27/06/2011 at 00:49, HansDownerpantz said:

Honestly man, the lad has had a shit year at 24 due to a couple of reasons and people won't even take him at £2m

 

At the very worst he'll be a solid midfielder, at his very best he'll be one of the best midfielders in the league.

 

Why wasn't he a solid midfielder for Villa then?

[Hanshithispantz]

  On 27/06/2011 at 00:50, Dave said:

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Honestly man, the lad has had a s*** year at 24 due to a couple of reasons and people won't even take him at £2m

 

At the very worst he'll be a solid midfielder, at his very best he'll be one of the best midfielders in the league.

 

Why wasn't he a solid midfielder for Villa then?

Because he wasn't played in his correct position for a start...

[Dave]

  On 27/06/2011 at 00:51, HansDownerpantz said:

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Honestly man, the lad has had a s*** year at 24 due to a couple of reasons and people won't even take him at £2m

 

At the very worst he'll be a solid midfielder, at his very best he'll be one of the best midfielders in the league.

 

Why wasn't he a solid midfielder for Villa then?

Because he wasn't played in his correct position for a start...

 

So even to get the worst out of him, he has to be played in a specific 'non-midfielder' position or there's no point.

[Mick]

  On 27/06/2011 at 00:51, HansDownerpantz said:

Because he wasn't played in his correct position for a start...

 

What's his best position and would he play in his best position here?

[Hanshithispantz]

  On 27/06/2011 at 00:53, Dave said:

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Honestly man, the lad has had a s*** year at 24 due to a couple of reasons and people won't even take him at £2m

 

At the very worst he'll be a solid midfielder, at his very best he'll be one of the best midfielders in the league.

 

Why wasn't he a solid midfielder for Villa then?

Because he wasn't played in his correct position for a start...

 

So even at his worst, he has to be played in a specific 'non-midfielder' position or there's no point.

Are you pissed, Dave? He was played fairly deep alongside Petrov in a midfield 2 when he's an attacking midfielder who needs freedom. Would we play Tiote off the striker? Or Ben Arfa infront of our defence? Ner, because they would be shit.

 

He was also coming into a club that had just lost it's manager and had a woeful first half of the season (the team and him). Using those dozen or so games against him is canny harsh like.

 

I'm not sugesting he's right for us or anything like.

[Dave]

You have to wonder why Villa treated him so badly then, if it's so obvious that it wouldn't work. If we're talking about risk, signing a player that only does well given a prolonged run in a single, specific position where we already have at least one superior player doesn't really stack up, whatever the fee. Then there's his mental state, being out on the piss, the injuries etc.

 

If he's so good/such a small risk, why hasn't anyone else snapped him up yet at just £2m? The Nolan argument, if you will.

 

I just don't see the point in signing him.

[Hanshithispantz]

The Ben Arfa argument aswel, another player who no body else seemingly wanted to touch who we brought in for a cut price.

 

 

[Mick]

  On 27/06/2011 at 01:08, HansDownerpantz said:

The Ben Arfa argument aswel, another player who no body else seemingly wanted to touch who we brought in for a cut price.

 

 

 

I thought one of the German clubs were interested in Ben Arfa just before we signed him on loan.

[Hanshithispantz]

  On 27/06/2011 at 01:01, Dave said:

I just don't see the point in signing him.

Neither do I tbh as I cannot see him starting, however if we are showing an interest in him then clearly Pardew sees a role for him, and if he's wanting an attacking midfielder I doubt you'll get any better for £2m.

[Hanshithispantz]

  On 27/06/2011 at 01:10, Mick said:

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The Ben Arfa argument aswel, another player who no body else seemingly wanted to touch who we brought in for a cut price.

 

 

 

I thought one of the German clubs were interested in Ben Arfa just before we signed him on loan.

Weder Bremen, aye, we don't exactly know that nobody is after Ireland though do we?

 

I very much doubt theres not if the reported fees are correct.

[Mick]

  On 27/06/2011 at 01:13, HansDownerpantz said:

Weder Bremen, aye, we don't exactly know that nobody is after Ireland though do we?

 

I very much doubt theres not if the reported fees are correct.

 

I never said that nobody was after Ireland, I guess that we'll see over the coming weeks.

[ElDiablo]

He's obviously got on well enough with everyone and his attitude has been fine or we wouldn't be back in for him, the only thing i worry about is his fight when the going gets tough, never striked me as a player who will get his hands dirty when need be. We're losing those types and with Barton probably leaving we'll only really have Tiote in that mould.

 

It's quite funny seeing the people moaning about this are the same ones who moan that the talent of the squad below the first team is poor. Ireland is exactly the type of player who adds something to the squad, is versatile and will get his fair share of games.

 

If he comes in though, for me that means either Guthrie, Barton or Jonas are on their way out. Hopefully Guthrie.

[Shak]

He had some personal problems with a few of his teammates in the Ireland squad. He resolved these problems by telling his coaches that a member of his family had died and he had to go home for the funeral.

 

That tells you a bit about his mentality when the going gets tough.

 

Still, he'll be cheap though.

[Guest]

  On 27/06/2011 at 02:52, ElDiablo said:

He's obviously got on well enough with everyone and his attitude has been fine or we wouldn't be back in for him, the only thing i worry about is his fight when the going gets tough, never striked me as a player who will get his hands dirty when need be. We're losing those types and with Barton probably leaving we'll only really have Tiote in that mould.

 

It's quite funny seeing the people moaning about this are the same ones who moan that the talent of the squad below the first team is poor. Ireland is exactly the type of player who adds something to the squad, is versatile and will get his fair share of games.

 

If he comes in though, for me that means either Guthrie, Barton or Jonas are on their way out. Hopefully Guthrie.

 

I remember the game up here when Beye got sent-off and he was the only City player who seemed to give two shits and he got them the equaliser.

[Guest]

  On 27/06/2011 at 00:53, Mick said:

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Because he wasn't played in his correct position for a start...

 

What's his best position and would he play in his best position here?

 

Most advanced of a central three seemed to be his best role with Kompany the holding-midfielder (Tiote?) and Elano the playmaker (Cabaye?).

[Guest BooBoo]

City fans that I work with say he was fantastic working with Robinho under Hughes. Mancini didn't fancy him and his confidence plummeted.

[nobby_solano]

£2m for ireland is a good deal if he is actually fit now, especially when you consider he's only 24 and a 21 year old jordan henderson went for £20m

[Guest]

  On 27/06/2011 at 07:10, nobby_solano said:

£2m for ireland is a good deal if he is actually fit now, especially when you consider he's only 24 and a 21 year old jordan henderson went for £20m

 

And O'Hara who is as run-of-the-mill a Premier League midfielder as you're likely to get has just cost £5m.

[Theregulars]

I like how people are dismissing him as merely a UEFA cup player when if we somehow got into the UEFA cup this year that would represent a monumental achievement.