TRon Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 Fingers crossed we can shift Barton and that opens the door for either N'Zogbia or Barnetta to come in. By the time Barton is shifted (if he is shifted) I would expect Zog will have moved to Villa or some other club. I just hope Marveaux will turn out to be a success to offset the loss of Zog to a rival. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilko Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 When it says the club don't want him, that's not in the same way they apparently ruled out Cole and Sidwell - they don't want him at the fee/wages they'd have to pay right now. It's not a question of the powers that be simply saying "nah he's rubbish". I'm absolutely certain that should the fee come down if he hasn't moved towards the end of the window, or he drops his wage demands (whatever the main stumbling block is in the eyes of Ashley), we'll be in for him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 Yes, and? Do you not see how it's a tad hypocritical to say that you don't want to spend megamoney like them and then say that we shouldn't care how much we spend on players? If you read the post I agreed with, it clearly states the caveat that I wouldn't want us to go mental buying mediocre players for stupid money and so on. They go way too far with spending money just for the sake of it. To be perfectly honest, I stopped reading the post after the first paragraph. Still though, would you be comfortable spending mental money if it was buying good players? Cause that's what City are doing at the moment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
junkhead Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 Fingers crossed we can shift Barton and that opens the door for either N'Zogbia or Barnetta to come in. Barton is a lot better than Barnetta for me.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 Yes, and? Do you not see how it's a tad hypocritical to say that you don't want to spend megamoney like them and then say that we shouldn't care how much we spend on players? If you read the post I agreed with, it clearly states the caveat that I wouldn't want us to go mental buying mediocre players for stupid money and so on. They go way too far with spending money just for the sake of it. To be perfectly honest, I stopped reading the post after the first paragraph. Still though, would you be comfortable spending mental money if it was buying good players? Cause that's what City are doing at the moment. Some of the fees and wages they're paying out are obscene, even when they're getting good players. The Tevez situation has been an absolute farce, and he's their best player. They don't give a shite about who they upset, they don't have any commitment to bringing through any players of their own, and they are willing to buy players they don't even need just to stop others buying them. There's no comparison to us whatsoever. This is what I was on about when I mentioned not being arsed about the finances apparently means I want us to go out of business. I know full well there are limitations, I just don't believe we are anywhere near them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punk77 Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 Fingers crossed we can shift Barton and that opens the door for either N'Zogbia or Barnetta to come in. Barton is a lot better than Barnetta for me.. Barton lost some of his mojo after Carroll left. He's better as a CM. But in that particular area, we're solid. I got no problems with sacrificing Barton in order to buy Zog. The latter will give us much more pace and punch on the right side. On the other hand we lose Barton's abilities to distribute the ball. But again, we have Cabaye to distribute balls now.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 Cabaye can distribute my balls all he likes Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 Fingers crossed we can shift Barton and that opens the door for either N'Zogbia or Barnetta to come in. Barton is a lot better than Barnetta for me.. Barton lost some of his mojo after Carroll left. He's better as a CM. But in that particular area, we're solid. I got no problems with sacrificing Barton in order to buy Zog. The latter will give us much more pace and punch on the right side. On the other hand we lose Barton's abilities to distribute the ball. But again, we have Cabaye to distribute balls now.. Why do people keep saying this? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 Can only assume they don't watch games. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan_Taylor Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 Can only assume they don't watch games. Has to be it really. No other way you could be saying Barton is better in the middle Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 He is quite clearly better when he has freedom on the right like, but he was not bad the few games he played in the centre last season. Massively exagerated like and it seems to have caught on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 Can only assume they don't watch games. Has to be it really. No other way you could be saying Barton is better in the middle Barton seems to think so. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punk77 Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 Sewelly: Because it's a fact Seriously though, imo he got two important abilities that are important for a CM: tenacity and passing skills. On the other hand he's not a very good dribbler, and he got no pace. Both are necessary for a wide man. That's also the reason why Barton drifts so much inside, and why most of our chances have been created on the left. If Barton was such a terrific wide man, logically we should have created much more chances on his side. But we didn't. That leads me to believe that he's best as a CM. Hans: The few games Barton has played CM this year, we've lacked key players , like Tiote. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
junkhead Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 Fingers crossed we can shift Barton and that opens the door for either N'Zogbia or Barnetta to come in. Barton is a lot better than Barnetta for me.. Barton lost some of his mojo after Carroll left. He's better as a CM. But in that particular area, we're solid. I got no problems with sacrificing Barton in order to buy Zog. The latter will give us much more pace and punch on the right side. On the other hand we lose Barton's abilities to distribute the ball. But again, we have Cabaye to distribute balls now.. Agree with all that. Barton's end product since Carroll left is a concern. There are very few fullbacks that he could be beat for pace and his early crosses were largely ineffective in the second part of the season. But still, I think we'll miss the determination, work rate, creativity and general influence he brings to the midfield. Regardless if he plays on the wing or in the center.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punk77 Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 Fingers crossed we can shift Barton and that opens the door for either N'Zogbia or Barnetta to come in. Barton is a lot better than Barnetta for me.. Barton lost some of his mojo after Carroll left. He's better as a CM. But in that particular area, we're solid. I got no problems with sacrificing Barton in order to buy Zog. The latter will give us much more pace and punch on the right side. On the other hand we lose Barton's abilities to distribute the ball. But again, we have Cabaye to distribute balls now.. Agree with all that. Barton's end product since Carroll left is a concern. There are very few fullbacks that he could be beat for pace and his early crosses were largely ineffective in the second part of the season. But still, I think we'll miss the determination, work rate, creativity and general influence he brings to the midfield. Regardless if he plays on the wing or in the center.. That is true. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dokko Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 Anything happened in 15 pages? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 Fingers crossed we can shift Barton and that opens the door for either N'Zogbia or Barnetta to come in. Barton is a lot better than Barnetta for me.. Barton lost some of his mojo after Carroll left. He's better as a CM. But in that particular area, we're solid. I got no problems with sacrificing Barton in order to buy Zog. The latter will give us much more pace and punch on the right side. On the other hand we lose Barton's abilities to distribute the ball. But again, we have Cabaye to distribute balls now.. Agree with all that. Barton's end product since Carroll left is a concern. There are very few fullbacks that he could be beat for pace and his early crosses were largely ineffective in the second part of the season. But still, I think we'll miss the determination, work rate, creativity and general influence he brings to the midfield. Regardless if he plays on the wing or in the center.. We could have had Carroll last season and I don't think it would have made much difference to our set-pieces because the standard dropped terribly from around February-March. Remember one game in particular (Liverpool away) where he couldn't even beat Kuyt who was standing 10-yards away, or when he did, he smacked it out for a throw-in at the far side. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 David Beckham's one of the best wide players this country's ever produced, and he never had the first inkling of pace or dribbling ability. Looking at it in those terms is too simplistic. Barton gives the ball away too much centrally, takes too much time on the ball, getting caught in possession, and his short passing is too poor to play there consistently. He's been splendid wide, it's not all about getting to the by-line and judging by some of the goals he scored with his head at West Ham, Ba's a player who can thrive on quality delivery. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilko Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 David Beckham's one of the best wide players this country's ever produced, and he never had the first inkling of pace or dribbling ability. Looking at it in those terms is too simplistic. Barton gives the ball away too much centrally, takes too much time on the ball, getting caught in possession, and his short passing is too poor to play there consistently. He's been splendid wide, it's not all about getting to the by-line and judging by some of the goals he scored with his head at West Ham, Ba's a player who can thrive on quality delivery. Ba strikes me as a good all-rounder. I don't think he has one particular stand-out attribute but I'd say that most of the main centre-forward criteria (aerial ability, strength, pace, finishing and footballing brain) you could probably give him at least 7/10 for. I think Ba may be something we've not had for ages in that he's someone who always looks to attack the ball inside the box, be it whipped in or floated in. I don't include Nolan in that because I mean just strikers btw. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 On the subject of Beckham, he apparently scored direct froma corner recently? EDIT: Appauling keeping/defending/everthing. Absolutely disgusting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeletor Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 On the subject of Beckham, he apparently scored direct froma corner recently? EDIT: Appauling keeping/defending/everthing. Absolutely disgusting. Aye. Nutmegged the keeper and all . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 Sewelly: Because it's a fact Seriously though, imo he got two important abilities that are important for a CM: tenacity and passing skills. On the other hand he's not a very good dribbler, and he got no pace. Both are necessary for a wide man. I can almost count on one hand the number of good games Barton has put in at central midfield for NUFC. He doesn't have the speed of thought, short passing or physical attributes to play there regularly. He repeatedly gets caught in possession and struggles to influence the game from the centre. Every time he's been played out wide his performances have been a marked improvement because he gets the time and space to get the best out of his passing range and ability to get the ball into the box. I don't understand how despite overwhelming evidence (this is assuming you watch our games) you can still conclude that Barton is better as a central midfielder. That's also the reason why Barton drifts so much inside, and why most of our chances have been created on the left. If Barton was such a terrific wide man, logically we should have created much more chances on his side. But we didn't. That leads me to believe that he's best as a CM. I may be wrong but I'm pretty sure I read that Barton had one of the best chance creation rates from open play in the league. Regardless of statistics you onoly have to watch him play last season to know just how good he was on that right hand side. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 If he was that good and created that much then why are people upset if we miss out on N'Zogbia? Surely our efforts should go in to strengthening other areas of the pitch instead of looking to replace one of our best and most creative players of last season? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 When it says the club don't want him, that's not in the same way they apparently ruled out Cole and Sidwell - they don't want him at the fee/wages they'd have to pay right now. It's not a question of the powers that be simply saying "nah he's rubbish". I'm absolutely certain that should the fee come down if he hasn't moved towards the end of the window, or he drops his wage demands (whatever the main stumbling block is in the eyes of Ashley), we'll be in for him. so basically, if he's going cheap, we'll be in for him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punk77 Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 I can almost count on one hand the number of good games Barton has put in at central midfield for NUFC. He doesn't have the speed of thought, short passing or physical attributes to play there regularly. He repeatedly gets caught in possession and struggles to influence the game from the centre. Every time he's been played out wide his performances have been a marked improvement because he gets the time and space to get the best out of his passing range and ability to get the ball into the box. I don't understand how despite overwhelming evidence (this is assuming you watch our games) you can still conclude that Barton is better as a central midfielder. He's had weak games as CM, especially against WBA. But it's a bit unfair to blame it all on Barton. He didn't play with the best of players. It's much easier to be a CM when you have constant movement around you (=easy to find alternatives) which he didn't have previous season. Both him and Tiote did have some outburst on the pitch because nobody wanted the ball. This year, we'll hopefully have a better RB, a better RM, a moveable striker and BA. If you put him as CM in that setup, together with Tiote, I think he'll do great. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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