KK - "Pardew Won't See A Penny Of It"

[M4]

still not convinced getting relegated is better than finishing second.

 

You keep saying that, but you do realise that Keegan played his part in both those things happening, right?

[TheGuv]

still not convinced getting relegated is better than finishing second.

 

You keep saying that, but you do realise that Keegan played his part in both those things happening, right?

 

I forgot that leaving after 3 games in the season helps you get relegated like. Not the other 35 games in which we picked up a meagre 31 points

[cp40]

still not convinced getting relegated is better than finishing second.

 

You keep saying that, but you do realise that Keegan played his part in both those things happening, right?

 

 

nope- it was proved in court he was not allowed to play his part ( carry out his duties) hence winning his constructive dismissal claim.

 

you understand this right?

 

[M4]

Not saying it was his fault. He didn't help though and the verdict of his lawsuit showed he knew exactly in what state he was leaving the club. People need to realise that is now part of his legacy too.

[johnnypd]

Keegan won his case for constructive dismissal - in effect proving he was forced out. So yes, him leaving left us in a lurch (though west ham got over a similar situation by hiring a permanent manager one week later), but if you want to find someone to blame for that event, look towards the tribunal's judgement and look towards those who forced him out. Similarly, don't overlook the fact that there were 35 games left in the season - what happened in that period sent us down.

 

In conclusion - it's the club's fault for mishandling a situation and forcing keegan out, and it's the club's fault for making an utter balls up of the rest of the season on numerous occasions (placing the club in limbo by putting it up for sale at an unrealistic price, not getting in a proper manager like venables when he as good as landed in our laps, hiring JFK, waiting 2 months to replace him after his heart attack, selling two of our best players in the transfer window, going for the gimmick solution of hiring the inexperienced shearer etc).

[TheGuv]

[M4]

That sums up what Ashley did wrong. And no one is denying that.

[Benwell Lad]

500 jobs created in County Durham to build new trains.

 

http://www.journallive.co.uk/north-east-news/todays-news/2011/03/02/500-train-building-jobs-to-be-created-in-durham-61634-28262326/

 

Ouch, wrong thread.

 

I was wondering how far off the subject this thread was going to go.

 

Views on Libya, anyone?

 

You implying that we have a despotic leader who does not listen to his people.

 

Seriously I wish I could stop posting in this thread so it could just die the death it deserves.

[Cronky]

500 jobs created in County Durham to build new trains.

 

http://www.journallive.co.uk/north-east-news/todays-news/2011/03/02/500-train-building-jobs-to-be-created-in-durham-61634-28262326/

 

Ouch, wrong thread.

 

I was wondering how far off the subject this thread was going to go.

 

Views on Libya, anyone?

 

You implying that we have a despotic leader who does not listen to his people.

 

Seriously I wish I could stop posting in this thread so it could just die the death it deserves.

 

There's a horrible fascination in re-visiting these old arguments. I'm old enough to know better but I can't help myself.

[Dr Venkman]

thats an extremely important point. final say doesnt mean give him the credit card and let him go wild. it means no-one comes or goes without his say-so, THATS what managers do. thats also Ashleys worst nightmare because he wants to able to accept/reject bids, hence alan pardew.

 

MA didn't appoint Pardew so he could veto him. 

 

stopped reading

[JH]

We worked out who's to blame yet?

[jdckelly]

We worked out who's to blame yet?

we are

[cp40]

We worked out who's to blame yet?

 

yep- Denis wise

[JH]

We worked out who's to blame yet?

 

yep- Denis wise

 

Dennis' wife?

[cp40]

We worked out who's to blame yet?

 

yep- Denis wise

 

Dennis' wife?

 

 

if you like

[80]

Not saying it was his fault. He didn't help though and the verdict of his lawsuit showed he knew exactly in what state he was leaving the club. People need to realise that is now part of his legacy too.

 

By your logic, is the club getting relegated your fault too? Seeing as you didn't help as much as you could have to stop us going down and all that kind of thing.

[M4]

By your logic, is the club getting relegated your fault too? Seeing as you didn't help as much as you could have to stop us going down and all that kind of thing.

 

I didn't take a manager's job at the club, constantly declare how special the situation was and what the position meant and then quit knowingly leaving it in a lurch.

 

Only thing the fans are guilty of is to have had faith in him.

[Frazzle]

By your logic, is the club getting relegated your fault too? Seeing as you didn't help as much as you could have to stop us going down and all that kind of thing.

 

I didn't take a manager's job at the club, constantly declare how special the situation was and what the position meant and then quit knowingly leaving it in a lurch.

 

Only thing the fans are guilty of is to have had faith in him.

 

Leaving it in a lurch?  We were 9th when Keegan left.

 

He can't be blamed for not hiring a permanent manger for two months, then hiring Joe Kinnear, then selling Given and N'Zogbia, then not hiring a permanent manager again for two months...

[cp40]

The recession is Keegans fault, and he should have seen what was going to happen in libya and stopped it.

 

 

[Ronaldo]

He got rid of the reserves, of course Libya is his fault.

[madras]

points 18-20 are exactly what i've said all along re this mythical "final say", the cklub were naive in telling him that without making sure he knew his boundaries.....no manager has the final say, though there chairmen/CEO's will ALL tell you otherwise.

 

It seems you're still having comprehension problems, and don't seem to understand that all the parties accepted that the meaning of the term "final say" in this context is to do with the acceptance or non-acceptance of a player, and nothing to do with wanting players outside the financial restraints set by the board.

 

21. We turn, therefore, to consider what were the duties usually associated with the position of a Manager of a Premier League Football Team. On this issue, the evidence was effectively all one way. Mr Keegan's own evidence was that these duties included controlling the players that come into (and out of) the Club (subject, of course, to the financial restraints set by the Board) and significantly he was not cross examined on this evidence (in other words, it was not suggested to him that he was wrong about this). Evidence to the same effect was given by three of the Club's witnesses, Mr Mort, Mr Charnley and Mr Vetere. We heard no evidence to the contrary effect. This also accords with both the understanding and long experience of the non lawyer member of the Tribunal, Mr Merrett, and, for what it is worth, the understanding of the two lawyer members.

 

Accordingly, we have concluded that the duties usually associated with the position of a Premier League Manager included the right, indeed duty, to have the final say as to transfers into the Club and thus that was the position under this Contract.

 

Keegan accepted there were financial restraints, he very likely wasn't happy with what they were, but that was not the issue which caused him to be constructively dismissed, it was the fact that the club signed a player when he explicitly and forcefully told them he did not want them to. This proved beyond doubt that club had broken the contract, however it's pretty likely (it's strongly implied in the report) that even without this explicit example, they would have found in Keegan's favour anyway as Dennis Wise was happy to tell them that he was within his remit to ignore the views of the manager and it was in fact he who would decide who was bought or sold by the club. There are very few managers, and certainly no top ones who would accept that situation unless they themselves were happy to put the responsibility in that person's hands.

 

Are you seriously trying to suggest that it's an everyday occurrence at Man U or Arsenal say that Wenger & Ferguson get told that a player is going to be brought into the first team squad, and when they say they don't want him the club goes f*** you we're bringing him in anyway?

 

re the pay off, not only did the tribunal not give him the extra payment for the damage to his reputation (ie damages) they didn't make the club pay up his contract but held it to the payment in lieu. to my (all be it lay perspective) they are saying "you've won a technical, bitty award so you can stick by the technical arrangemnets, ie the payment in lieu" does it not strike you as strange that he never even got his contract paid up ?

 

Constructively dismissed = dismissed = £2m payoff explicitly stated in contract

 

What part of that don't you understand?

 

Keegan's lawyers tried to argue that as the contract was broken by the club it was all null and void so that part of the contract shouldn't hold, but they were ruled against, and rightly so IMO. They also tried to argue that he should get compensation because his reputation had been sullied. The ruling was that the report findings would be enough to restore his reputation. They were very naive and wrong on that count and his reputation has undoubtedly been damaged, so he probably should have received compensation for that.

 

i agree very much with quaysides reading of the "leaglese" of the case and i'd still love to no the truth. it seems to me that we wont find out as if the truth did out they'd both be seen in a worse light.

 

You're just a nosey parker. When stuff like that comes out, both parties are damaged as negatives will be focused upon, but I'd stake my life the club would come out by far the worse of the two to any independent party.

all parties acepted the meaning and in respect of gonzalez it wasn't kept (it no doubt wasn't the first or last time it'll happen here or elsewhere) and that is how the case was won. it doesn't tell us about what else was going on. if everything the club says was a lie because of this isn't also important to review keegans quotes in light of the milner sale.

 

does it not strike you as odd that the case revolves round a loan (a loan which i've always maintained ought to be investigated by FIFA/UEFA/the prem league)  and not the coloccini,jonas,bassong,guthrie or milner deals ?

 

tell me definitivly that keegans targets were viable and i'll have grounds to think again.

 

don't use the "ashleys are proven liar" line as everyone in football is through necessity.

[Thespence]

like a lot of other managers, Martin O'Neill included, he needs to spend highly to succeed.

 

That is the case with most managers/clubs who operate in or aspire to be in the top 10 of the PL.

 

What was O'Neil spending record like at Wycombe & Leicester? Was it 20 or 30 million spent at each club?

[M4]

As long as Keegan is right, that's all that matters. I'm glad we got relegated and hope Pardew doesn't get a penny.

 

[cp40]

As long as Keegan is right, that's all that matters. I'm glad we got relegated and hope Pardew doesn't get a penny.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[80]

tell me definitivly that keegans targets were viable and i'll have grounds to think again.

 

Not wanting to get into the whole thing here, but re: this - I can't prove intangibles, no one can. What I can say though is what little we can be confident of knowing about the deals done in that period includes that Keegan found Bassong and was the driving force behind bringing in Guthrie - both for relatively nominal fees. So it at least suggests he wasn't as out of touch with modern football and financial reality as was alleged and incapable of going with a 'restrained' approach. Guthrie certainly wasn't obviously stellar but he was a decent young lad who 'could be improved' and play a role in a passing game.

 

As a total case can't be proven beyond doubt, you'll just have to go with your judgement based on everyone's past histories and characters to fill in the gaps on the rest. I would think that goes heavily in Keegan's favour.