Football's greatest - where does Lionel Messi rank?

[Paully]

27 years old 

 

 

Messi's records 

 

Champions League top scorer: 74

La Liga top scorer: 253

 

Barcelona's top goalscorer: 368

Most goals in a La Liga season: 50

 

Most goals in a season: 73

Most consecutive La Liga matches scored in: 21

 

Most Ballon d'Or titles: 4

Most goals in a single European Cup game: 5 (joint with Luiz Adriano)

 

Most European Cup top scorer awards: 4 (with Gerd Muller)

Most goals in Clasicos: 21

 

Most La Liga hat-tricks in a season: 8

Most goals in Club World Cup: 4 (held jointly with Denilson)

 

Most goals in a calendar year: 91

 

 

[Mole_Toonfan]

Consistency is more important than what any player can do "at their peak" imo, though Messi hardly falls down on the latter either.

 

That's why I can't really no matter how many clips of players I see, from before I was born legitimately say they were better.

 

I need to see a player for majority of his career to compare them, seeing as I never had the chance with Maradona I can't personally compare them.

[The College Dropout]

If it's consistency that's most important Wane Rooney will go down as the greatest striker from England and to play in the PL ever.

 

 

 

[Guest firetotheworks]

Consistency is more important than what any player can do "at their peak" imo, though Messi hardly falls down on the latter either.

 

Exactly my point when people were saying that Zidane was better. In terms of quality, not quantity Ronaldo is the only player that was on the same level that I've seen, but the consistency was nowhere near after he fucked his knee.

[Ronaldo]

If it's consistency that's most important Wane Rooney will go down as the greatest striker from England and to play in the PL ever.

 

 

 

He's been a great player for over 11 years and is only 29, it's hardly a criticism.

[triggs]

I think both Cristiano and Messi are relatively poor in leading a team and bringing out the best of their teammates.

But would bringing the best out in their teammates and thus probably reducing their own scoring be the best for the team?

 

Yes. They've achieved the best success when they've been part of the best teams. each time they've won the CL they've been part of the very best teams. And in most cases they weren't the difference in finals or semi's. Obviously both played big roles.

 

I've banged on about this before but a part of selling the sport and taking it to another level as a business you must create behemoth teams and superstars. I call it the Jordan effect. You now have players who have grown up thinking the game is all about individualism. As such a lot of the very best players can be loosely described as greedy players and they don't reach that level of acclaim typically - unless they are actually fairly self-absorbed. Gareth Bale went onto another level when it was decided he shouldn't bother to defend and concentrate on scoring as much as he could. He almost fired them to the CL but the times they actually finished in the top 4 was when he was more of a team player and the focus was on the team - not the individual.

 

Messi wasn't like that but he has become that. The way the Argies talk about him is disgusting "we need to play so that he can win us the world cup" or words to that effect. The last 3 teams to win the World Cup didn't have a Messiah type figure to fire them to glory.

Nothing to do with losing one of the best midfielders in the world

[Tooj]

If it's consistency that's most important Wane Rooney will go down as the greatest striker from England and to play in the PL ever.

Rooney is inconsistent as fuck man.

[Ronaldo]

He goes through periods of inconsistency with his goalscoring. That's as inconsistent as he gets.

[The College Dropout]

If it's consistency that's most important Wane Rooney will go down as the greatest striker from England and to play in the PL ever.

 

 

 

He's been a great player for over 11 years and is only 29, it's hardly a criticism.

Aye he'll be considered a legend no doubt. But the best for England or the PL? Not for my money but the statistics will eventually indicate otherwise.

[Mr. Snrub]

If it's consistency that's most important Wane Rooney will go down as the greatest striker from England and to play in the PL ever.

Rooney is inconsistent as fuck man.

 

 

Shearer is quite clearly a level above Rooney and that's not going to change.

[The College Dropout]

If it's consistency that's most important Wane Rooney will go down as the greatest striker from England and to play in the PL ever.

Rooney is inconsistent as f*** man.

At least 10 league goals every season for a decade. Over 15 every season - for a decade. From a variety of positions too.

 

He'll end up all-time Premiership goal scorer and all-time England goalscorer. Fantastic player but he's not the best attacker in either field.

[The College Dropout]

I think both Cristiano and Messi are relatively poor in leading a team and bringing out the best of their teammates.

But would bringing the best out in their teammates and thus probably reducing their own scoring be the best for the team?

 

Yes. They've achieved the best success when they've been part of the best teams. each time they've won the CL they've been part of the very best teams. And in most cases they weren't the difference in finals or semi's. Obviously both played big roles.

 

I've banged on about this before but a part of selling the sport and taking it to another level as a business you must create behemoth teams and superstars. I call it the Jordan effect. You now have players who have grown up thinking the game is all about individualism. As such a lot of the very best players can be loosely described as greedy players and they don't reach that level of acclaim typically - unless they are actually fairly self-absorbed. Gareth Bale went onto another level when it was decided he shouldn't bother to defend and concentrate on scoring as much as he could. He almost fired them to the CL but the times they actually finished in the top 4 was when he was more of a team player and the focus was on the team - not the individual.

 

Messi wasn't like that but he has become that. The way the Argies talk about him is disgusting "we need to play so that he can win us the world cup" or words to that effect. The last 3 teams to win the World Cup didn't have a Messiah type figure to fire them to glory.

Nothing to do with losing one of the best midfielders in the world

 

RVV & the manager too. But the gameplan completely changed. They had a team that played with real wingers stretching the opposition wide and attached at pace. Made use of Modric & RVV on the ball. Used Defoe in behind and Crouch often as a focal point. A team oriented approach with some genuinely brilliant players involved. The next season - it was keep it tight and let Gareth win us the games. A completely different approach based on getting the best out of one individual.

 

Teams like Dortmund & Atleti heck even Arsenal, managed to get better despite selling a prize asset or three (eventually the selling catches up) because the focus was always on the team rather than the individual.

[Froggy]

Ah the great underrating of Rooney returns. :lol:

[Froggy]

If it's consistency that's most important Wane Rooney will go down as the greatest striker from England and to play in the PL ever.

Rooney is inconsistent as f*** man.

At least 10 league goals every season for a decade. Over 15 every season - for a decade. From a variety of positions too.

 

He'll end up all-time Premiership goal scorer and all-time England goalscorer. Fantastic player but he's not the best attacker in either field.

 

With most assists as well more than likely, depending on Fabregas. That's forgetting the defensive work he offers when needed and is a skilled penalty, free kick and corner taker. There's not a lot better than Rooney.

[Incognito]

Wayne Rooney doesn't belong in a thread discussing world greats.

[Guest firetotheworks]

Wayne Rooney doesn't belong in a thread discussing world greats.

 

I concur.

 

I rate him like, but he seems to massively polarise opinions imo.

[Anderson]

Can't see him overtaking Shearer like, still 83 behind going into his 30s. Would need to average about 15 a season until he's 35.

[Froggy]

Can't see him overtaking Shearer like, still 83 behind going into his 30s. Would need to average about 15 a season until he's 35.

 

He won't catch him because he doesn't play up front anymore. He'll still get 10+ a season from deep but he's more a creator now.

[Anderson]

[Mole_Toonfan]

Not just the stats but Rooney goes from the sublime to the ridiculous as often as anyone despite what his goal tally may say.

[Disco]

http://www.gifbin.com/bin/3204840swsw.gif

[Incognito]

Despite his impressive scoring record for England,  unlike Lineker, Charlton or even Shearer, when it's really mattered he rarely produces. Very good and clever player no doubt but not a great.

[Hughesy]

Despite his impressive scoring record for England,  unlike Lineker, Charlton or even Shearer, when it's really mattered he rarely produces. Very good and clever player no doubt but not a great.

 

Absolutely spot on.  Even domestically, I don't think he is that close to Shearer.  If Shearer hadn't had those two serious injuries, you could easily add at least 60 more PL goals to his record, if not more.

[The College Dropout]

Agreed but he'll surpass them all in overall goals eventually if for injuries. Even Shearer's 260.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

Despite his impressive scoring record for England,  unlike Lineker, Charlton or even Shearer, when it's really mattered he rarely produces. Very good and clever player no doubt but not a great.

 

He's a club and league great no doubt, but internationally for England and in Europe he has been just about above average for me, he has never truly convinced. He promised to do so in Euro 2004, but since then he has been nothing special despite his stats and appearance records. He is more Tevez than Mezzsi if we are talking along those lines.

 

He will probably end up the all-time England top goal scorer which is obviously a great achievement, but I wouldn't say he has been an England great like, just as I wouldn't say Shearer was despite his otherwise very very good record. Lineker is an England great, Shilton too, Moore et al.

 

Most modern England players can rack up huge appearance records, but it means nowt when you're being picked because there is either not much competition, a cowardly manager is in charge or there are far too many games. Rooney could have been a World great, but he lacked the intelligence and professionalism and in Fergie and Man Utd he had a manager and a club who demanded he sacrificed his game for the good of the team and others.

 

Real, Barca et al, they let their best players do their thing. Rooney would have been better off joining us, playing with absolute freedom to do as he pleased and then moving to a Barca or a Real and then he would have really developed. At Man Utd, two stellar seasons aside, he's been good, but not great.

 

When he first burst onto the scene at Everton he was very special and played with a certain degree of youthful exuberance and style that for me, made hi. Stand out head and shoulders above most, even those already established. He was like 'wow', but a quick sale to Man Utd and a lack of intelligence and professionalism hindered his talent and potential. Booze, tabs, running around like a headless. Hickey, being played on the wing, left or right, withdrawn etc. overplayed - the lot.

 

Wayne Rooney - England's greatest talent perhaps, but I think Gazza chow asked his talent better in a smaller window and timeframe, to the outside world anyway.

 

I'm a massive fan by the way, on his day he has more in his locker than Messi and Ronaldo. If only he had Ronaldo,s professionalism and attitude and had the freedom Messi has been afforded at Barca we might be talking about him as one of the best ever.

 

He'll go down as one of the best ever for his club and in the PL and due to his goals and number of appearances England too, but where Rooney is concerned I feel for one his career hasn't quite matched his true ability and potential that we first saw at Everton and during Euro 2004. He was frightening - Messi, Ronaldo, Cronaldo etc. frightening.