Flip Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Ronaldo is an unbelievable goalscorer. Messi is unbelievable at basically everything and is a real leader on the pitch usually. Not a leader as in shouting a lot but in the big games when things may not be going their way, he's always getting on the ball and trying to create or providing the breakthrough like last night. When things aren't going Ronaldo's way in big games he continues to stand up near the defensive line and doesn't take much responsibility on himself to win the game and can be anonymous at times when the space is cut down Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 I don't think some understand that you can score goals without having much impact on a game or playing well at all. Just like you can not have a shot and be the most impactful player on the pitch. (Xavi made a career of it) But clearly this argument is going nowhere. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Village Idiot Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Ronaldo is an unbelievable goalscorer. Messi is unbelievable at basically everything and is a real leader on the pitch usually. Not a leader as in shouting a lot but in the big games when things may not be going their way, he's always getting on the ball and trying to create or providing the breakthrough like last night. When things aren't going Ronaldo's way in big games he continues to stand up near the defensive line and doesn't take much responsibility on himself to win the game and can be anonymous at times when the space is cut down I think this whoscored article nailed it, tbf: http://www.whoscored.com/Articles/dj9-xanyw0w5lqrvgqfscg/Show/Player-Focus-Messi-Worth-More-Than-Just-His-Weight-in-Goals-to-Barcelona Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 It's the '(just)' that's annoying Ronaldo doesn't really show up in big matches imo. He has moments and scores, just like Messi has, but I can't remember the last time Ronaldo had a big game against a big team. That's Messi's MO, with the obvious disclaimer that he didn't in the World Cup Final. You're gonna make me feel dirty for defending Cristiano f***ing Ronaldo, but look at the past two games (Sevilla and Juve) and see who scored the goals that are keeping Real Madrid both in La Liga and the CL. Yeah, he doesn't have a good photo in a CL final like Messi does (except looking like a c*** showing off his muscles), but he's saved his team in some big moments. I'm going to sound like a mug here, but he couldn't really miss tbh and outside of that he hardly touched the ball. I forgot about the first goal but he was their to finish. That's a massive skill considering everyone knows he's the danger man. And that header from Bale's cross was sublime. He also contributed to the other goal if my memory serves. Wasn't it also Ronaldo's cross that James headed against the crossbar vs Juve? Also laid it on a plate for Chicarito against Atletico. One of the best headers I've seen in a long time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Ronaldo is an unbelievable goalscorer. Messi is unbelievable at basically everything and is a real leader on the pitch usually. Not a leader as in shouting a lot but in the big games when things may not be going their way, he's always getting on the ball and trying to create or providing the breakthrough like last night. When things aren't going Ronaldo's way in big games he continues to stand up near the defensive line and doesn't take much responsibility on himself to win the game and can be anonymous at times when the space is cut down Didn't see that leadership at the world cup. He's not "always on the ball" either. Ronaldo can be on the peripheral of games (as Messi was for 75 minutes last night) but he's The Difference for Real time after time. He's the man. Nothing less. Whilst I agree that Messi does play like that sometimes, I don't think that was the case last night at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 For me Messi is so much more likeable for some reason. His personality and his style of play. His crap hair and his weird suits. I've barely seen Ronaldo play since he left England but nothing in football is as fun as watching Lionel at work. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
triggs Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Ronaldo is an unbelievable goalscorer. Messi is unbelievable at basically everything and is a real leader on the pitch usually. Not a leader as in shouting a lot but in the big games when things may not be going their way, he's always getting on the ball and trying to create or providing the breakthrough like last night. When things aren't going Ronaldo's way in big games he continues to stand up near the defensive line and doesn't take much responsibility on himself to win the game and can be anonymous at times when the space is cut down Didn't see that leadership at the world cup. He's not "always on the ball" either. Ronaldo can be on the peripheral of games (as Messi was for 75 minutes last night) but he's The Difference for Real time after time. He's the man. Nothing less. Messi is always dropping deep trying to create things. Also in the world cup he got the winning goal in two games and scored two in one game both of which put his team ahead, gave a good assist in extra time in a game where they were under pressure. Didn't see the Belgium game at the time but just watched highlights and some of Messi's passes were outstanding. Against Holland again created some good chances for Maxi Rodriguez and ratboy IIRC. He wasn't half as bad as some think in the final either. Basically he was Argentina's only attacking threat in the World Cup and the rest of their attacking players performed poorly. Aguero was shit, Higuain was shit bar one game, Lavezzi was actually ok, Di Maria was poor(don't know where people get the idea that he had a good world cup), Ratboy was shit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 For me Messi is so much more likeable for some reason. His personality and his style of play. His crap hair and his weird suits. I've barely seen Ronaldo play since he left England but nothing in football is as fun as watching Lionel at work. I think that's probably because he's so unassuming. It's like he's a nerdy Daniel Larusso whereas Ronaldo would be head of the Cobra Kai, we've grown up to appreciate honesty and modesty and people not being flashy. Reading about him he just seems like an island to himself, so when you watch him play football it sort of makes it all the more captivating and all the better imo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Ronaldo is an unbelievable goalscorer. Messi is unbelievable at basically everything and is a real leader on the pitch usually. Not a leader as in shouting a lot but in the big games when things may not be going their way, he's always getting on the ball and trying to create or providing the breakthrough like last night. When things aren't going Ronaldo's way in big games he continues to stand up near the defensive line and doesn't take much responsibility on himself to win the game and can be anonymous at times when the space is cut down Didn't see that leadership at the world cup. He's not "always on the ball" either. Ronaldo can be on the peripheral of games (as Messi was for 75 minutes last night) but he's The Difference for Real time after time. He's the man. Nothing less. Messi is always dropping deep trying to create things. Also in the world cup he got the winning goal in two games and scored two in one game both of which put his team ahead, gave a good assist in extra time in a game where they were under pressure. Didn't see the Belgium game at the time but just watched highlights and some of Messi's passes were outstanding. Against Holland again created some good chances for Maxi Rodriguez and ratboy IIRC. He wasn't half as bad as some think in the final either. Basically he was Argentina's only attacking threat in the World Cup and the rest of their attacking players performed poorly. Aguero was shit, Higuain was shit bar one game, Lavezzi was actually ok, Di Maria was poor(don't know where people get the idea that he had a good world cup), Ratboy was shit. Messi wasn't very good and looked disinterested in the final, there's no getting away from that like. I wish he hadn't been and I was gutted that he was, but he definitely wasn't very good. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
triggs Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Ronaldo is an unbelievable goalscorer. Messi is unbelievable at basically everything and is a real leader on the pitch usually. Not a leader as in shouting a lot but in the big games when things may not be going their way, he's always getting on the ball and trying to create or providing the breakthrough like last night. When things aren't going Ronaldo's way in big games he continues to stand up near the defensive line and doesn't take much responsibility on himself to win the game and can be anonymous at times when the space is cut down Didn't see that leadership at the world cup. He's not "always on the ball" either. Ronaldo can be on the peripheral of games (as Messi was for 75 minutes last night) but he's The Difference for Real time after time. He's the man. Nothing less. Messi is always dropping deep trying to create things. Also in the world cup he got the winning goal in two games and scored two in one game both of which put his team ahead, gave a good assist in extra time in a game where they were under pressure. Didn't see the Belgium game at the time but just watched highlights and some of Messi's passes were outstanding. Against Holland again created some good chances for Maxi Rodriguez and ratboy IIRC. He wasn't half as bad as some think in the final either. Basically he was Argentina's only attacking threat in the World Cup and the rest of their attacking players performed poorly. Aguero was shit, Higuain was shit bar one game, Lavezzi was actually ok, Di Maria was poor(don't know where people get the idea that he had a good world cup), Ratboy was shit. Messi wasn't very good and looked disinterested in the final, there's no getting away from that like. I wish he hadn't been and I was gutted that he was, but he definitely wasn't very good. Watch the world cup final again or at least the highlights, he was very good in the first half and pretty good in the second half as well. He was poor in extra time tbf. The chance he missed was actually very difficult from that angle against a keeper like Neuer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Ronaldo is an unbelievable goalscorer. Messi is unbelievable at basically everything and is a real leader on the pitch usually. Not a leader as in shouting a lot but in the big games when things may not be going their way, he's always getting on the ball and trying to create or providing the breakthrough like last night. When things aren't going Ronaldo's way in big games he continues to stand up near the defensive line and doesn't take much responsibility on himself to win the game and can be anonymous at times when the space is cut down Didn't see that leadership at the world cup. He's not "always on the ball" either. Ronaldo can be on the peripheral of games (as Messi was for 75 minutes last night) but he's The Difference for Real time after time. He's the man. Nothing less. Messi is always dropping deep trying to create things. Also in the world cup he got the winning goal in two games and scored two in one game both of which put his team ahead, gave a good assist in extra time in a game where they were under pressure. Didn't see the Belgium game at the time but just watched highlights and some of Messi's passes were outstanding. Against Holland again created some good chances for Maxi Rodriguez and ratboy IIRC. He wasn't half as bad as some think in the final either. Basically he was Argentina's only attacking threat in the World Cup and the rest of their attacking players performed poorly. Aguero was shit, Higuain was shit bar one game, Lavezzi was actually ok, Di Maria was poor(don't know where people get the idea that he had a good world cup), Ratboy was shit. Messi wasn't very good and looked disinterested in the final, there's no getting away from that like. I wish he hadn't been and I was gutted that he was, but he definitely wasn't very good. Watch the world cup final again or at least the highlights, he was very good in the first half and pretty good in the second half as well. He was poor in extra time tbf. The chance he missed was actually very difficult from that angle against a keeper like Neuer. It wasn't that long ago By his standards, it was poor. I'd defend him to the hilt, but he didn't look arsed in that match. It's the only blemish on his name and I was gutted he didn't get the World Cup added to his list of achievements. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Wouldn't say that he didn't look arsed. He just looked physically spent. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
triggs Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Ronaldo is an unbelievable goalscorer. Messi is unbelievable at basically everything and is a real leader on the pitch usually. Not a leader as in shouting a lot but in the big games when things may not be going their way, he's always getting on the ball and trying to create or providing the breakthrough like last night. When things aren't going Ronaldo's way in big games he continues to stand up near the defensive line and doesn't take much responsibility on himself to win the game and can be anonymous at times when the space is cut down Didn't see that leadership at the world cup. He's not "always on the ball" either. Ronaldo can be on the peripheral of games (as Messi was for 75 minutes last night) but he's The Difference for Real time after time. He's the man. Nothing less. Messi is always dropping deep trying to create things. Also in the world cup he got the winning goal in two games and scored two in one game both of which put his team ahead, gave a good assist in extra time in a game where they were under pressure. Didn't see the Belgium game at the time but just watched highlights and some of Messi's passes were outstanding. Against Holland again created some good chances for Maxi Rodriguez and ratboy IIRC. He wasn't half as bad as some think in the final either. Basically he was Argentina's only attacking threat in the World Cup and the rest of their attacking players performed poorly. Aguero was shit, Higuain was shit bar one game, Lavezzi was actually ok, Di Maria was poor(don't know where people get the idea that he had a good world cup), Ratboy was shit. Messi wasn't very good and looked disinterested in the final, there's no getting away from that like. I wish he hadn't been and I was gutted that he was, but he definitely wasn't very good. Watch the world cup final again or at least the highlights, he was very good in the first half and pretty good in the second half as well. He was poor in extra time tbf. The chance he missed was actually very difficult from that angle against a keeper like Neuer. It wasn't that long ago By his standards, it was poor. I'd defend him to the hilt, but he didn't look arsed in that match. It's the only blemish on his name and I was gutted he didn't get the World Cup added to his list of achievements. He didn't look arsed in extra time because I presume he was really tired but this clouds people's opinions of his overall performance in the game, he played well in normal time and anybody who even watched highlights couldn't deny that Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Segun Oluwaniyi Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Something was physically wrong with Messi last season and during the World Cup, imo. There is a stark difference in his movement, stamina, and explosiveness since the turn of 2015. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Village Idiot Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Something was physically wrong with Messi last season and during the World Cup, imo. There is a stark difference in his movement, stamina, and explosiveness since the turn of 2015. There's lots of talk about Luís Enrique introducing stricter diet and training regimes. It's not just Messi, the entire team looks much fitter than last season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Ronaldo is an unbelievable goalscorer. Messi is unbelievable at basically everything and is a real leader on the pitch usually. Not a leader as in shouting a lot but in the big games when things may not be going their way, he's always getting on the ball and trying to create or providing the breakthrough like last night. When things aren't going Ronaldo's way in big games he continues to stand up near the defensive line and doesn't take much responsibility on himself to win the game and can be anonymous at times when the space is cut down Didn't see that leadership at the world cup. He's not "always on the ball" either. Ronaldo can be on the peripheral of games (as Messi was for 75 minutes last night) but he's The Difference for Real time after time. He's the man. Nothing less. Messi is always dropping deep trying to create things. Also in the world cup he got the winning goal in two games and scored two in one game both of which put his team ahead, gave a good assist in extra time in a game where they were under pressure. Didn't see the Belgium game at the time but just watched highlights and some of Messi's passes were outstanding. Against Holland again created some good chances for Maxi Rodriguez and ratboy IIRC. He wasn't half as bad as some think in the final either. Basically he was Argentina's only attacking threat in the World Cup and the rest of their attacking players performed poorly. Aguero was shit, Higuain was shit bar one game, Lavezzi was actually ok, Di Maria was poor(don't know where people get the idea that he had a good world cup), Ratboy was shit. Messi wasn't very good and looked disinterested in the final, there's no getting away from that like. I wish he hadn't been and I was gutted that he was, but he definitely wasn't very good. Watch the world cup final again or at least the highlights, he was very good in the first half and pretty good in the second half as well. He was poor in extra time tbf. The chance he missed was actually very difficult from that angle against a keeper like Neuer. It wasn't that long ago By his standards, it was poor. I'd defend him to the hilt, but he didn't look arsed in that match. It's the only blemish on his name and I was gutted he didn't get the World Cup added to his list of achievements. He didn't look arsed in extra time because I presume he was really tired but this clouds people's opinions of his overall performance in the game, he played well in normal time and anybody who even watched highlights couldn't deny that Are you suggesting that no one watched the World Cup Final? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Wouldn't say that he didn't look arsed. He just looked physically spent. I'm in this camp. There's no way Leo Messi was "disinterested" or "not arsed" in the World Cup final. I get the point, but I'd always look for another explanation before accusing him of that. He goes into every single game in a season desperate for goals, I can't buy that he decided not to bother in the biggest game of his life. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
triggs Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Ronaldo is an unbelievable goalscorer. Messi is unbelievable at basically everything and is a real leader on the pitch usually. Not a leader as in shouting a lot but in the big games when things may not be going their way, he's always getting on the ball and trying to create or providing the breakthrough like last night. When things aren't going Ronaldo's way in big games he continues to stand up near the defensive line and doesn't take much responsibility on himself to win the game and can be anonymous at times when the space is cut down Didn't see that leadership at the world cup. He's not "always on the ball" either. Ronaldo can be on the peripheral of games (as Messi was for 75 minutes last night) but he's The Difference for Real time after time. He's the man. Nothing less. Messi is always dropping deep trying to create things. Also in the world cup he got the winning goal in two games and scored two in one game both of which put his team ahead, gave a good assist in extra time in a game where they were under pressure. Didn't see the Belgium game at the time but just watched highlights and some of Messi's passes were outstanding. Against Holland again created some good chances for Maxi Rodriguez and ratboy IIRC. He wasn't half as bad as some think in the final either. Basically he was Argentina's only attacking threat in the World Cup and the rest of their attacking players performed poorly. Aguero was shit, Higuain was shit bar one game, Lavezzi was actually ok, Di Maria was poor(don't know where people get the idea that he had a good world cup), Ratboy was shit. Messi wasn't very good and looked disinterested in the final, there's no getting away from that like. I wish he hadn't been and I was gutted that he was, but he definitely wasn't very good. Watch the world cup final again or at least the highlights, he was very good in the first half and pretty good in the second half as well. He was poor in extra time tbf. The chance he missed was actually very difficult from that angle against a keeper like Neuer. It wasn't that long ago By his standards, it was poor. I'd defend him to the hilt, but he didn't look arsed in that match. It's the only blemish on his name and I was gutted he didn't get the World Cup added to his list of achievements. He didn't look arsed in extra time because I presume he was really tired but this clouds people's opinions of his overall performance in the game, he played well in normal time and anybody who even watched highlights couldn't deny that Are you suggesting that no one watched the World Cup Final? Obviously not. At the time I think emotion and hyperbole took over peoples opinions of how he played but I think anybody who watched it now would tell you that Messi played well in normal time and was absolutely knackered for extra time. If you are so sure that you are right watch highlights of the game and tell me how you think Messi played Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Wouldn't say that he didn't look arsed. He just looked physically spent. I'm in this camp. There's no way Leo Messi was "disinterested" or "not arsed" in the World Cup final. I get the point, but I'd always look for another explanation before accusing him of that. He goes into every single game in a season desperate for goals, I can't buy that he decided not to bother in the biggest game of his life. He looked out of it for big parts of that season tbh, as has been said. The whole Argentina set up didn't help him but he wasn't right, not a chance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Like Baba said he clearly has the explosion back, at the world cup and quite frankly the last two years it looked a struggle for him to go past people. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Wouldn't say that he didn't look arsed. He just looked physically spent. I'm in this camp. There's no way Leo Messi was "disinterested" or "not arsed" in the World Cup final. I get the point, but I'd always look for another explanation before accusing him of that. He goes into every single game in a season desperate for goals, I can't buy that he decided not to bother in the biggest game of his life. It looked that way, despite it almost certainly not being true. Either way he had a poor final and it was a shame. That chance goes in or Higuain takes his chance and history has him down as having won everything there is to win. Aside from the daft question of whether he could do it in another league, every question would have been answered by the time he was 27. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Ronaldo is an unbelievable goalscorer. Messi is unbelievable at basically everything and is a real leader on the pitch usually. Not a leader as in shouting a lot but in the big games when things may not be going their way, he's always getting on the ball and trying to create or providing the breakthrough like last night. When things aren't going Ronaldo's way in big games he continues to stand up near the defensive line and doesn't take much responsibility on himself to win the game and can be anonymous at times when the space is cut down Didn't see that leadership at the world cup. He's not "always on the ball" either. Ronaldo can be on the peripheral of games (as Messi was for 75 minutes last night) but he's The Difference for Real time after time. He's the man. Nothing less. Messi is always dropping deep trying to create things. Also in the world cup he got the winning goal in two games and scored two in one game both of which put his team ahead, gave a good assist in extra time in a game where they were under pressure. Didn't see the Belgium game at the time but just watched highlights and some of Messi's passes were outstanding. Against Holland again created some good chances for Maxi Rodriguez and ratboy IIRC. He wasn't half as bad as some think in the final either. Basically he was Argentina's only attacking threat in the World Cup and the rest of their attacking players performed poorly. Aguero was shit, Higuain was shit bar one game, Lavezzi was actually ok, Di Maria was poor(don't know where people get the idea that he had a good world cup), Ratboy was shit. Messi wasn't very good and looked disinterested in the final, there's no getting away from that like. I wish he hadn't been and I was gutted that he was, but he definitely wasn't very good. Watch the world cup final again or at least the highlights, he was very good in the first half and pretty good in the second half as well. He was poor in extra time tbf. The chance he missed was actually very difficult from that angle against a keeper like Neuer. It wasn't that long ago By his standards, it was poor. I'd defend him to the hilt, but he didn't look arsed in that match. It's the only blemish on his name and I was gutted he didn't get the World Cup added to his list of achievements. He didn't look arsed in extra time because I presume he was really tired but this clouds people's opinions of his overall performance in the game, he played well in normal time and anybody who even watched highlights couldn't deny that Are you suggesting that no one watched the World Cup Final? Obviously not. At the time I think emotion and hyperbole took over peoples opinions of how he played but I think anybody who watched it now would tell you that Messi played well in normal time and was absolutely knackered for extra time. If you are so sure that you are right watch highlights of the game and tell me how you think Messi played Not very well by his standards. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 A Messi on a "good" night wins the World Cup final by himself. He was nowhere near that in the final. What a guy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Village Idiot Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 This is the printout from a seismograph placed 500m from the Camp Nou. Both spikes match the times where Messi scored his two goals against Bayern. http://img02.lavanguardia.com/2015/05/08/Imagen-del-registro-del-sismog_54431121662_51351706917_600_226.jpg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 Damn, he fell harder than I thought. Fuck's he made of. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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